Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread...


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/8/2013 6:28:01 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: brokendom111
Most of those shootings in Chicago and other big cities are drug-turf related.
We do have the Second Amendment and the Supreme Court has ruled that it is an *individual right.*
Has the crime rate in D.C. leveled off since concealed carry a few years ago?

no, it has dropped

That is unfortunate. I surmise that it means that those born without a conscience essentially have gone into hiding. The consequence of them not manifesting themselves is that they are less likely to be removed from the breeding population - especially if the females do not discern - or even ignore - between males with a conscience and those without a conscience. The opportunity to decrease the frequency of their criminal alleles in the gene pool and to increase the frequency of the decency alleles, is therefore gone.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/8/2013 6:38:43 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: brokendom111

Most of those shootings in Chicago and other big cities are drug-turf related.
We do have the Second Amendment and the Supreme Court has ruled that it is an *individual right.*
Has the crime rate in D.C. leveled off since concealed carry a few years ago?

no, it has dropped

As a DC dweller, I must point out that this is misleading. Crime in D.C. was dropping before DC v. Heller (2008), and that drop has continued.

DC Homicide Stats: http://mpdc.dc.gov/page/district-crime-data-glance

Those lefties at Forbes did a piece on DC's crime drop. Here's the nut graf:

The reasons Washington has gotten less violent: Gentrification, tax breaks, and urban reforms, according to John Roman, a senior fellow at the Urban Institute who also teaches criminology at the University of Pennsylvania.

No mention of Heller in the whole story.



So contrary to the predictions of the left at worst Heller had no effect as opposed to the blood bath we were told we were in for. He didn't ask for all the reasons because he "knew" the streets of D C would be running red with blood as a result of Heller.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/8/2013 6:42:48 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

So contrary to the predictions of the left at worst Heller had no effect as opposed to the blood bath we were told we were in for. He didn't ask for all the reasons because he "knew" the streets of D C would be running red with blood as a result of Heller.

Nice sleight of hand there. And excellent mastery of the NRA talking points.

I'm not sure, though, whom you mean by "he" or what he was supposed to ask for.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 9/8/2013 7:17:15 PM >


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/8/2013 11:30:52 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

So contrary to the predictions of the left at worst Heller had no effect as opposed to the blood bath we were told we were in for. He didn't ask for all the reasons because he "knew" the streets of D C would be running red with blood as a result of Heller.

Nice sleight of hand there. And excellent mastery of the NRA talking points.

I'm not sure, though, whom you mean by "he" or what he was supposed to ask for.

He would be brokendom111 who asked me if crime had leveled off in D C since concealed carry.
He was prepared to blame any increase on guns.
As far as "mastery of NRA talking points"
You don't mean to say that the antigun people didn't raise the specter of gunfights in the streets if they allowed innocent people have firearms. It has been a standard in every state where cc has come up.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/8/2013 11:41:51 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Naaah, I think knives are the go for kids. Small steps etc....

If every kid is kitted out with a concealed knife, it can only make American schools a safer place to be, too.

Focus.


Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think you're a limp-wristed liberal (and quite likely a closet vegetarian who enjoys cuddles and walks in the country), Focus. I'm sure that the Constitution implies that children are people, and that therefore such 'smaller' people have a right to be armed. However, not only are children people, but so are unborn foetuses. (So the hairy-nostrilled Republicans say, and we can trust hairy-nostrilled Republicans to know all about the Constitution.) So, clearly, unborn foetuses should be tooled-up too, obviously.

Why hasn't someone invented a really tiny revolver to shove up pregnant American women's vadges so that their unborn babies can properly protect themselves and ensure the freedom that is rightfully theirs?

I blame it on political correctness and the constant erosion of American values by liberals/communists.

And what about our venerable senior citizens? Why have they been omitted from the conversation?

Recently I read about a marvelous new invention that could protect our seniors from thugs, as well as employing many Americans in its manufacture. Some genius had added a machine gun to a Zimmer walking frame, and also produced a line of single shot walking canes using native American trees. Both of these wonderful products could be instrumental in protecting our seniors from the thugs who prey upon them, making our streets safer for all.

Why aren't they being issued on Medicare? Goddamned Govt interference that's why!

_____________________________



(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 2:24:31 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

He would be brokendom111 who asked me if crime had leveled off in D C since concealed carry.
He was prepared to blame any increase on guns.

I read bd111 differently, having seen on other threads that he's a sock for one of our right-wing regulars. (Did I say "right-wing"? I meant "independent," of course.) He was hoping to laud Heller as the silver bullet that solved DC's crime woes.


quote:


You don't mean to say that the antigun people didn't raise the specter of gunfights in the streets if they allowed innocent people have firearms. It has been a standard in every state where cc has come up.

To be honest, I didn't follow Heller all that closely, but I'm sure folks raised concerns about its possible effects. Whether they actually predicted "a blood bath" or "gunfights in the streets," I don't know. Those phrases sound hyberbolic, but what's a little strawmanning among friends?

We are fortunate that the decision didn't boost our crime rate, but that's different from crediting it for the decline.

I don't know that Heller actually legalized concealed carry in D.C. USA Carry says not. That raises the question of whether the case is even germane to the thread.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 3:01:14 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hey jackass.com....... How ironic.

The idea that if people carried concealed weapons, Chicago`s violence would dissapear is laughable.

The idea that anyone said that I laughable.

The OP ended with "The sooner Chicago has concealed carry, the better." That suggests the OP thinks concealed carry would improve the situation, no?


You have read the OP the same way I have, the inference seems pretty obvious.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 3:44:01 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
Si vis pacem, para bellum - "If you want peace, prepare for war"

To live in a country with the largest military force because the government believes the "If you want peace, prepare for war" motto, and then say disarming only the law abiding citizens will bring less murder (peace) is just fucking ridiculous and hypocritical. American's are smart enough to see through this BS, that's why they haven't ever been able to take our guns.

Is the gun argument really any more complex than Si vis pacem, para bellum?

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 6:03:53 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

And what about our venerable senior citizens? Why have they been omitted from the conversation?


I didn't expressly exclude them, just naturally assumed they'd already be armed. lol

American seniors, that is - cos when you say "our", and you're from only a hundred miles down the road...?

Focus.


_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 6:13:13 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

.... and then say disarming only the law abiding citizens will bring less murder (peace) is just fucking ridiculous and hypocritical. American's are smart enough to see through this BS, that's why they haven't ever been able to take our guns.


Speaking of BS, which other western democracy's experience are you basing this creative piece of uniquely American logic on?

Focus.


_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 6:18:00 AM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Fascinating appraisal, seriously. Just one of the many things that sticks out for me, though: left-leaning political leaders colluding to prevent jobs coming to the area? I imagine that this would be something that's hotly disputed, no?

It's not that they collude to prevent jobs in their area, it's the type of jobs. They like government jobs best of all, because when you've got a public-employee union backing you, it assures you of a long career in politics. When there are more private-sector jobs, people actually want results, not more "programs", "task forces", and "action committees" that seem to the stock in trade in cities like Chicago and D.C.

And DomKen is right, welfare recipients don't report voting as much as others. There's a lot of ways to interpret statistics, and frankly, in Democratic strongholds, voter fraud is an open secret. Consider the Ohio poll worker who voted six times for Obama (that they can determine), and extrapolate from that. Go into any American inner city and observe the subculture there. People don't talk about breaking the law unless it serves them, and they're told in no uncertain terms to keep election fraud under wraps. Multiple identities are the norm. I've had one customer who possessed no less that eight different driver's licenses and other forms of identity (including SS numbers and other public assistance paperwork).

It's a subculture that does not respect the law, plain and simple. And race doesn't play much into it-you'll see whites, blacks, and latinos all doing the same thing. The common thread is poverty and hopelessness, and that's what those kind of politicians want. If someone is living off the benefits accrued by illegal means, they'll support anyone who alludes to maintaining that status quo.

How does this all translate into more gun violence? The subculture of hopelessness is a haven for those who challenge the law as its written, because many see it as their way out or to get above the rest of the pack. Cops are reviled, while gang members are revered. They look down at people who want to get an education, call them "Uncle Toms", and some take perverse pride in not being educated. Why work hard in school and get good grades and a job where they'll have to work hard, when all you have to do is sit back, fake up some paperwork to get a check, and hang out on the porch drinking beer, smoking crack and pot, and making more babies?

You need cash, you get a gun, run with a gang, sell dope and work hookers. You charge other criminals in your area tribute for the privilege of working your turf, force legal businesses to pay protection and reap the benefits. They see the workers riding the bus or subway to their jobs and compare it to the gangsters who sleep in, drive high-end SUVs and luxury cars, wear the nicest gear, and have all the hot ladies around them. Hard to argue with that imagery. All they have to do to get it is to lower themselves to that level and it too can be theirs. Problem is, along the way, people both innocent and guilty tend to die.

Couple that with the fact that in the cities with the highest crime rates, there's also a high level of government corruption too. If the "Man" can do it, why can't we? seems to be the mantra. Once that disease starts, it infects the entire system from the top down. Payoffs, favors, and other means get used to keep the crime syndicates in power. Oh sure, now and then someone gets caught and the authorities have to do something to keep it from looking like they're powerless. But that doesn't slow the offenders down much. They run their operations from the inside, using the safety of their status and the physical protection offered by incarceration to keep things rolling.



_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 5:03:34 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

He would be brokendom111 who asked me if crime had leveled off in D C since concealed carry.
He was prepared to blame any increase on guns.

I read bd111 differently, having seen on other threads that he's a sock for one of our right-wing regulars. (Did I say "right-wing"? I meant "independent," of course.) He was hoping to laud Heller as the silver bullet that solved DC's crime woes.


quote:


You don't mean to say that the antigun people didn't raise the specter of gunfights in the streets if they allowed innocent people have firearms. It has been a standard in every state where cc has come up.

To be honest, I didn't follow Heller all that closely, but I'm sure folks raised concerns about its possible effects. Whether they actually predicted "a blood bath" or "gunfights in the streets," I don't know. Those phrases sound hyberbolic, but what's a little strawmanning among friends?

We are fortunate that the decision didn't boost our crime rate, but that's different from crediting it for the decline.

I don't know that Heller actually legalized concealed carry in D.C. USA Carry says not. That raises the question of whether the case is even germane to the thread.

I was under the impression that Heller only removed the ban.
As for being hyberbolic those claims along with references to a return to the wild west are standard anti-gun propaganda.
Letting honest citizens have the means to protect themselves never leads to an increase in crime so luck had nothing to do with it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 5:24:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hey jackass.com....... How ironic.

The idea that if people carried concealed weapons, Chicago`s violence would dissapear is laughable.

The idea that anyone said that I laughable.

The OP ended with "The sooner Chicago has concealed carry, the better." That suggests the OP thinks concealed carry would improve the situation, no?


You have read the OP the same way I have, the inference seems pretty obvious.


Improve yes but to think it is a claim that cc would eliminate crime is laughable

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 10:16:06 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

How does this all translate into more gun violence? The subculture of hopelessness is a haven for those who challenge the law as its written, because many see it as their way out or to get above the rest of the pack. Cops are reviled, while gang members are revered. They look down at people who want to get an education, call them "Uncle Toms", and some take perverse pride in not being educated. Why work hard in school and get good grades and a job where they'll have to work hard, when all you have to do is sit back, fake up some paperwork to get a check, and hang out on the porch drinking beer, smoking crack and pot, and making more babies?


If life on welfare is the bed of roses you make it out to be, I'd have thought that they get so much cash scamming welfare that they wouldn't have any need to resort to violent crime to get by ...... Perhaps all those drugs you tell us these welfare scammers are taking addles their brains and confuses them ....

Another point to consider is that it isn't cheap keeping all those Cadillacs on the road, is it?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/9/2013 10:21:17 PM >


_____________________________



(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 10:31:25 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

To be honest, I didn't follow Heller all that closely, but I'm sure folks raised concerns about its possible effects. Whether they actually predicted "a blood bath" or "gunfights in the streets," I don't know. Those phrases sound hyberbolic, but what's a little strawmanning among friends?

We are fortunate that the decision didn't boost our crime rate, but that's different from crediting it for the decline.

I don't know that Heller actually legalized concealed carry in D.C. USA Carry says not. That raises the question of whether the case is even germane to the thread.


Crime rates are falling across the Western world. To date no one has produced a definitive analysis explaining this trend.

However, common sense tells us that, as the fall is almost universal across the West, claims that local or particular strategies such as zero tolerance policing or concealed carry laws can explain the trend are, at the very least, grossly inadequate .

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/9/2013 10:35:14 PM >


_____________________________



(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 10:38:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

To be honest, I didn't follow Heller all that closely, but I'm sure folks raised concerns about its possible effects. Whether they actually predicted "a blood bath" or "gunfights in the streets," I don't know. Those phrases sound hyberbolic, but what's a little strawmanning among friends?

We are fortunate that the decision didn't boost our crime rate, but that's different from crediting it for the decline.

I don't know that Heller actually legalized concealed carry in D.C. USA Carry says not. That raises the question of whether the case is even germane to the thread.


Crime rates are falling across the Western world. To date no one has produced a definitive analysis explaining this trend.

However, common sense tells us that if the fall is almost universal across the West, claims that local or particular strategies such as zero tolerance policing or concealed carry laws explain the trend are, at the very least, grossly inadequate .


I have repeatedly stated that demographics are the reason for the rise in crime that we saw in the 60s thru 80s and for the subsequent drops.
Which also undermines the calls for people to give up their rights when it will have a negligible effect.
This includes the constitutionally questionable stop and frisk policy of NYC.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 11:13:12 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

To be honest, I didn't follow Heller all that closely, but I'm sure folks raised concerns about its possible effects. Whether they actually predicted "a blood bath" or "gunfights in the streets," I don't know. Those phrases sound hyberbolic, but what's a little strawmanning among friends?

We are fortunate that the decision didn't boost our crime rate, but that's different from crediting it for the decline.

I don't know that Heller actually legalized concealed carry in D.C. USA Carry says not. That raises the question of whether the case is even germane to the thread.


Crime rates are falling across the Western world. To date no one has produced a definitive analysis explaining this trend.

However, common sense tells us that if the fall is almost universal across the West, claims that local or particular strategies such as zero tolerance policing or concealed carry laws explain the trend are, at the very least, grossly inadequate .


I have repeatedly stated that demographics are the reason for the rise in crime that we saw in the 60s thru 80s and for the subsequent drops.
Which also undermines the calls for people to give up their rights when it will have a negligible effect.
This includes the constitutionally questionable stop and frisk policy of NYC.

Demographic changes have been advanced by some as the reason for the drops in crime rates. This is disputed by others. Demonstrating how demographic changes CAUSED the trends as opposed to being CONTEMPORANEOUS with the trends is rather difficult, however don't let that dissuade you. Please be my guest if you feel you draw a compelling cause and effect chain.

A claim that particular or given strategy will have a "negligible effect" cannot be inferred from the above. The effects of any given strategy will rely on the merits and/or demerits of that strategy. What the fall in crime rates tells us is that these falls occurred independently of any given strategy, not that a given strategy will have a "negligible effect" as you are claiming.





_____________________________



(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 11:18:17 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Crime rates are falling across the Western world. To date no one has produced a definitive analysis explaining this trend.

However, common sense tells us that, as the fall is almost universal across the West, claims that local or particular strategies such as zero tolerance policing or concealed carry laws can explain the trend are, at the very least, grossly inadequate.

Since gun ownership and concealed carry have been expanding in the United States all the while crime has been dropping, common sense should also tell us that facile presumptions about fewer guns meaning less crime are equally inadequate.

K.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/9/2013 11:29:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

To be honest, I didn't follow Heller all that closely, but I'm sure folks raised concerns about its possible effects. Whether they actually predicted "a blood bath" or "gunfights in the streets," I don't know. Those phrases sound hyberbolic, but what's a little strawmanning among friends?

We are fortunate that the decision didn't boost our crime rate, but that's different from crediting it for the decline.

I don't know that Heller actually legalized concealed carry in D.C. USA Carry says not. That raises the question of whether the case is even germane to the thread.


Crime rates are falling across the Western world. To date no one has produced a definitive analysis explaining this trend.

However, common sense tells us that if the fall is almost universal across the West, claims that local or particular strategies such as zero tolerance policing or concealed carry laws explain the trend are, at the very least, grossly inadequate .


I have repeatedly stated that demographics are the reason for the rise in crime that we saw in the 60s thru 80s and for the subsequent drops.
Which also undermines the calls for people to give up their rights when it will have a negligible effect.
This includes the constitutionally questionable stop and frisk policy of NYC.

Demographic changes have been advanced by some as the reason for the drops in crime rates. This is disputed by others. Demonstrating how demographic changes CAUSED the trends as opposed to being CONTEMPORANEOUS with the trends is rather difficult, however don't let that dissuade you. Please be my guest if you feel you draw a compelling cause and effect chain.

A claim that particular or given strategy will have a "negligible effect" cannot be inferred from the above. The effects of any given strategy will rely on the merits and/or demerits of that strategy. What the fall in crime rates tells us is that these falls occurred independently of any given strategy, not that a given strategy will have a "negligible effect" as you are claiming.





First off you cannot logically claim demographics as the cause for a drop in crime unless it was the cause of the rise in the first place.
The rise in crime based on the baby boomers reaching the violence prone ages was predicted in the late sixties. This theory stated that there would be a steady and dramatic rise in crime as that group entered those ages, followed by a leveling of crime rates and then a rapid drop as the baby boomers aged.
That theory map the rise and fall of the crime rate very clearly and accurately.
The rise and fall of the crime rate has corresponded to the ageing of the baby boomers.
You cannot credit the drop to them moving out of the violence prone ages with blaming the rise on them entering the violence prone ages.
Anti gunners are happy to say that increased gun ownership a ccws are not a factor because of this but for some reason they cannot see that gun restrictions are equally a none factor.

P S
In this country places with cc laws have led the drop in crime, it may not be the reason but it sure hasn't hurt.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/9/2013 11:31:17 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... - 9/10/2013 12:10:49 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
BS is thinking you can compare one nation to another. They do not have the same incidents that have occurred in history that have the sociological impact or historical incidents that support the justification for social issues.

Just to add an example of that, the huge spike in weapons in the US dates back as far as the American Civil War. After the war, many areas relied on guns to keep what was there's. This included keeping it from the local governments. So it was a deterrent for a very long time against criminals and government over stepping their powers. So you have the sociological impact on the psychology of all those people, combined with the fact that large numbers of gun wielding people in fact were able to successfully defend what was there's. Move it forward and it has been reinforced in many areas of the US by gun ownership being the major deterrent to local crime in areas that were not sufficiently covered by LEO's. This happened in many developing areas through the 50's and 60's.

That is just one of many examples of things that can be unique to a country, and why comparing to other countries does not work.

You cannot ignore the sociological episodes that happened that mold a countries perception, or historical fact cannot be ignored when that history is so tied into the issue.

The US will never disarm as a people, ever. Instead if you want things to be safer then you look to safety classes being mandatory and severe penalties via laws for those that do not handle them safely. I doubt the extreme from the gif Lucy posted, but licensing and safety classes do not seem to be too much and if done properly can be brought into law and not conflict the 2nd Amendment of the United States.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

.... and then say disarming only the law abiding citizens will bring less murder (peace) is just fucking ridiculous and hypocritical. American's are smart enough to see through this BS, that's why they haven't ever been able to take our guns.


Speaking of BS, which other western democracy's experience are you basing this creative piece of uniquely American logic on?

Focus.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109