Abortion (Full Version)

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cuddleheart50 -> Abortion (6/30/2006 5:48:28 PM)

Just wondered what everyone's thoughts were on aboration.  I believe its the woman's choice.




missturbation -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 5:54:42 PM)

I believe it is both prospective parents choice. The woman may carry the child for nine months but it is still part of the father too.




Level -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 5:56:28 PM)

I yakked about this on a thread about a month ago, and I'll re-post some of what I said then.

"I say this respectfully..... to me, and others, it is not just about the woman's body...... there is another life involved.
 
If you believed the life of a child was in danger, what would you do? Ignore it?
 
I understand how a woman doesn't want the government to tell them what to do with their body... I hate being told what to do, and when government butts in too far.... and pregnancy is so personal..... but again, some feel there are two involved, not just one.
 
When does it stop being ok to abort? How far along? "

And:
 
"According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, the research arm of the nation’s leading abortion provider, Planned Parenthood:

At current rates, an estimated 43 percent of American women will have at least one abortion by the age of 45.

  • Two-thirds of all abortions are among never-married women.

  • Fifty-two percent of U.S. women having abortions are younger than 25 years old.

  • About 13,000 abortions each year are attributed to rape and incest—representing 1 percent of all abortions.3 "






      Social Reasons (given as primary reason)


          - Feels unready for responsibility
      21%

          - Feels she can't afford baby
      21%

          - Concern for how baby would change her life
      16%

          - Relationship problem
      12%

          - Feels she isn't mature enough
      11%

          - Has all the children she wants
      8%

          - Other reasons
      4-5%




        TOTAL:
      93%


      "Hard Cases" (given as primary reason)


          - Mother's Health
      3%

          - Baby may have health problem
      3%

          - Rape or Incest
      1%





      TOTAL:



      7%



      Source:  Aida Torres and J.D. Forrest, "Why Do Women Have Abortions?"
      Family Planning Perspectives, Vol. 20 No. 4 (July/August 1988) p. 170.
       
      According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, there has been nearly 40,000,000 abortions in the United States from 1973 through 1998. If the above cited statistics are correct, that means over 37,000,000 were for "convience".
      -------------------
      Week 3

      At this point, the blastocyst, or developing embryo, is looking for a spot to implant in the uterus.  Early formation of the central nervous system, backbone, and spinal column has begun.  The gastrointestinal system has also begun to develop with the kidneys, liver, and intestines forming.  The heart has begun to form. 

      Week 5

      The embryo’s tiny heart begins to beat by day twenty-one.  The brain has developed into 5 areas and some cranial nerves are visible.  Arm and leg buds are visible and the formation of the eyes, lips, and nose has begun.  The spinal cord grows faster than the rest of the body giving a tail like appearance which disappears as the embryo continues to grow.  The placenta begins to provide nourishment for the embryo.   

      Week 7

      Major organs have all begun to form.  The embryo has developed its own blood type, unique from the mother’s.  Hair follicles and nipples form and knees and elbows are visible.  Facial features are also observable.  The eyes have a retina and lens.  The major muscle system is developed and the embryo is able to move.

      Weeks 9-12

      The heart is almost completely developed and the heart rate can be heard on a Doppler machine at the doctor’s office.  Most major organs and tissues have developed and red blood cells are now produced in the liver.  The face is well formed and the eyes are almost fully developed.  The eyelids will close and not reopen until the 28th week.  Arms, hands, fingers, legs, feet, and toes are fully formed.  Nails and earlobes start to form and tooth buds develop in the gums.  Fetus can make a fist with its finger.  Testosterone (male sex hormone) is produced by the testes in male fetus. 

      And so on. For anyone wishing to see images of the fetal development spoken about above, here are a couple of many links: 
      http://www.wprc.org/trimester1.phtml   or http://www.realalternatives.org/pregnant/fetaldevelopment.htm






    • missturbation -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:00:12 PM)

      May i ask where your mention of the third person involved is? The father!!




      kiska -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:08:35 PM)

      OK ... So fine, there are three people involved.

      Only two really get to voice their vote, though ... How fair is that?

      I'm sorry ... Just because the sperm and egg donors don't wanna deal with it, doesn't make it right to abort it. They should have thought of that before engaging in activities which could result in the unwanted pregnancy to begin with. For God's sake, there are so many ways to PREVENT a pregnancy.

      As for the social reasons for aborting a child, putting the baby up for adoption solves ALL those problems. Many adoptive parents will even pay for ALL the medical bills you incur during your pregnancy. This means (according to the numbers given above) about 93% of women who get abortions are denying the countless people out there on waiting lists, hoping and praying for a baby to call their own.

      Wow, kinda makes em sound like a bunch of selfish bitches, don't it?




      Level -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:08:43 PM)

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: missturbation

      May i ask where your mention of the third person involved is? The father!!


      You're absolutely right [8|].




      onyurknees -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:10:55 PM)

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

      Just wondered what everyone's thoughts were on aboration.  I believe its the woman's choice.


      IMO absolutely a woman's choice, specifically within the first few months when the fetus is not viable. After that it gets a bit cloudier for me (oh I long for the years when the whole world was so neatly black and white), but ultimately, I tend to fall with "woman's decision" as the answer in most cases.
      If a man doesn't want to father a child, he should ensure that he takes ALL the necessary precautions to make that so. Coitus interruptus or "assuming" the woman is taking precautions don't count. And even taking her word for it is iffy: Women have been known to lie on occasion. If a man wants a say, his best way to have it is to not be careless or naive about his sperm.
      Lynn




      Wulfchyld -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:12:29 PM)

      I think what confounds me is the lack of say the man has. I am pro-choice for extenuating circumstances. I read a glad rag about a lady that many many abortions because birth control was too inconvenient. Back to the point; It takes two to make the bun in the oven but when it comes to abortion the choice is left in her hands. Now some people will probably jump on this and before you do read it twice. If a woman doesn’t want a baby she has an abortion (as an option) and if the Father does want it he has to hope she will have it but it is still up to her. On the other hand if he doesn’t want it and she does he is still financially obligated to the child. I think it is severely lacking in fairness, how does a Father keep the baby that is slated for termination, and if he doesn’t want it why does he have to be financially obligated to the child? We had lost multiple pregnancies before our first gem arrived, albeit in CCU for a while but you couldn’t tell it now, I would have dearly loved to had them all but fate had other designs.
       
      How does a father keep a baby the mother doesn’t want to have?
       
      How does a father escape financial responsibility to a baby he doesn’t want to have?
       
      This should be good.




      kiska -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:19:19 PM)

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: onyurknees

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

      Just wondered what everyone's thoughts were on aboration.  I believe its the woman's choice.


      IMO absolutely a woman's choice, specifically within the first few months when the fetus is not viable. After that it gets a bit cloudier for me (oh I long for the years when the whole world was so neatly black and white), but ultimately, I tend to fall with "woman's decision" as the answer in most cases.
      If a man doesn't want to father a child, he should ensure that he takes ALL the necessary precautions to make that so. Coitus interruptus or "assuming" the woman is taking precautions don't count. And even taking her word for it is iffy: Women have been known to lie on occasion. If a man wants a say, his best way to have it is to not be careless or naive about his sperm.
      Lynn




      OK I agree that the man should take responsibility for preventing children HE doesn't want to father ...

      However, the woman should do the same ... I'm sorry, pregnancy is a very preventable condition.

      It falls on the shoulders of both individuals involved, not just one or the other.




      missturbation -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:19:34 PM)

      I agree totally.
      To your first question he doesn't unless she agrees to have the baby and let him have custody which im sure is rare.
      To your second again he doesnt unless she agrees not to go for child support.
      Unfortunately fathers just seem to have very few rights at any stage.




      Level -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:24:00 PM)

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: onyurknees

      IMO absolutely a woman's choice, specifically within the first few months when the fetus is not viable.

      Lynn



      "Viable" may mean they can't live on their own, but it does not mean they aren't alive.




      windchymes -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:39:18 PM)

      Very true.  I worked for a few months as a pathology assistant, and I always hated Wednesdays.  That was "abortion day", and we received the little jars of scrambled baby body parts for disposal.  Abortion may make your life more convenient, but it ain't pretty.




      kiska -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:45:23 PM)

      As the product of an unwanted pregnancy, the idea of abortion horrifies me.

      If my mother had decided to abort me, I wouldn't have been asked what my opinion on the matter was. No one would have asked me if I wanted a chance to live, to breathe, to see the sky or watch the sunset over the ocean or dance or feel or love ...

      I would have simply ended up so many tiny parts in a jar ... Thrown away and forgotten.




      Wulfchyld -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:51:22 PM)

      Hey darq! (just figured that out) Nice to realize you are posting again. *feels silly*




      missturbation -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:55:34 PM)

      I don't personally agree with abortion just because uve not been careful with contraception either but ............ there are circumstances where it is unavoidable or for the best. A woman raped carrying a pregnancy which is the result of that i feel may not be healthy. Or in my own personal reality a child that would have not led a healthy life or a viable life. I made my choice for the sake of that child, not me! I also have to live with my decision every day and to hear someone refer to that child as tiny parts in a jar - thrown away and forgotten really hurts. I will never ever forget the choice i made and i think every day about him / her.
      Can we not be a little more careful about how we term things in this thread as it is probably one of the most delicate i have read or seen.




      LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 6:56:06 PM)

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: missturbation
      I believe it is both prospective parents choice. The woman may carry the child for nine months but it is still part of the father too.

      I think this is the ideal, but I still would not allow a father (or any other parent figure than the biological carrier) to override the choice of the mother- until we find a way for a child to be carried to term without a uterus or any biological necessity from the mother beyond conception.




      SweetSarijane -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 7:02:57 PM)

      I'm very much against abortion unless in extreme situations. There are plenty of birth control options out there if one doesn't wish to get pregnant. Abortion to me is not birth control, it's killing.




      kiska -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 7:07:33 PM)

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: missturbation

      I don't personally agree with abortion just because uve not been careful with contraception either but ............ there are circumstances where it is unavoidable or for the best. A woman raped carrying a pregnancy which is the result of that i feel may not be healthy. Or in my own personal reality a child that would have not led a healthy life or a viable life. I made my choice for the sake of that child, not me! I also have to live with my decision every day and to hear someone refer to that child as tiny parts in a jar - thrown away and forgotten really hurts. I will never ever forget the choice i made and i think every day about him / her.
      Can we not be a little more careful about how we term things in this thread as it is probably one of the most delicate i have read or seen.


      Well ... No ... I won't be more careful about how I term it. If my mother had chosen to abort me (because she didn't want me) thats how I would have ended up.

      My understanding of what you just said is that you had an abortion because the child would not have had a healthy life. I still disagree with your decision, however, I do NOT think it is the same thing as aborting a child merely because it is inconvenient to be pregnant.

      I'm very sorry for any pain you feel as a result of a very difficult decision you were forced to make, however, I  am the result of the carelessness of two people I don't even know. (Well I know my mom, sort of, but not really.)

      Who would have cried out for my death? No one ... How am I to know she ever would have mourned the child she'd so carelessly cast aside?

      Please understand, however, that I do not consider the decision you made to be the same as simply discarding an unwanted child like so much trash ... There *is* a difference.




      kiska -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 7:08:47 PM)

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

      Hey darq! (just figured that out) Nice to realize you are posting again. *feels silly*


      Thats funny ... LOL




      missturbation -> RE: Abortion (6/30/2006 7:12:59 PM)

      Thank you and i respect your opinions totally.
      I think this is probably just one of my very touchy subjects as if im honest i always wonder if i did make the wrong decision.
      I apologise if i offended you in any way.




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