Gun Permits for the Blind (Full Version)

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Focus50 -> Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 5:07:17 AM)

So how do blind Americans even know when someone's looking at 'em funny? [8D]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/blind-people-granted-gun-permits-iowa-20198854

Ok, can't keep a straight face here - anyone? [:D]

Focus.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 5:38:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
So how do blind Americans even know when someone's looking at 'em funny? [8D]
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/blind-people-granted-gun-permits-iowa-20198854
Ok, can't keep a straight face here - anyone? [:D]
Focus.


That's not actually a symptom of our right to bear arms, Focus. This is about the application of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). The ADA was passed to prevent discrimination based on disabilities.

And, legally blind doesn't necessarily mean the person is unable to see.

Blindness Wiki
    quote:

    To determine which people may need special assistance because of their visual disabilities, various governmental jurisdictions have formulated more complex definitions referred to as legal blindness.[2] In North America and most of Europe, legal blindness is defined as visual acuity (vision) of 20/200 (6/60) or less in the better eye with best correction possible. This means that a legally blind individual would have to stand 20 feet (6.1 m) from an object to see it—with corrective lenses—with the same degree of clarity as a normally sighted person could from 200 feet (61 m). In many areas, people with average acuity who nonetheless have a visual field of less than 20 degrees (the norm being 180 degrees) are also classified as being legally blind. Approximately ten percent of those deemed legally blind, by any measure, have no vision. The rest have some vision, from light perception alone to relatively good acuity. Low vision is sometimes used to describe visual acuities from 20/70 to 20/200.


The ADA has also been abused to prevent employers from firing people who are alcoholics and have come to work drunk (though I only have anecdotal evidence from my ex to support that).




Kirata -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 5:53:27 AM)


I have to suppose that a woman being raped wouldn't have much trouble knowing where to shoot. But even just speaking generally, blind people are amazing...

Researchers have demonstrated for the first time that people can successfully navigate an obstacle course even after brain damage has left them with no awareness of the ability to see and no activity in the visual cortex, a region of the brain's cortex that is primarily responsible for processing visual inputs. ~Source

And too...

there are blind people who have learned to make clicks with their mouths and to use the returning echoes from those clicks to sense their surroundings. Some of these people are so adept at echolocation that they can use this skill to go mountain biking, play basketball, or navigate unknown environments. ~Source

So maybe you shouldn't be so quick to laugh because you think you know it all, eh?

K.



jlf1961 -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 5:59:22 AM)

I saw this article and actually thought it was a joke, until I looked at the source, and they are correct, according to the ADA it is a gray area. Legally you have to issue concealed carry permits to the blind.

Now to carry the stupidity further, according to a recent crime bill passed in Texas which is a republican run state the following now apply:

A recently passed anticrime law requires criminals to give their victims 24 hours notice, either orally or in writing, and to explain the nature of the crime to be committed.

It is required to commit a homicide as long as you tell the person when, and how you are going to kill them.


Granted I am not sure about the second one, but I have tracked down and verified the first. The republican state legislature passed that bill and republican Rick Perry signed it.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 6:15:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
I saw this article and actually thought it was a joke, until I looked at the source, and they are correct, according to the ADA it is a gray area. Legally you have to issue concealed carry permits to the blind.
Now to carry the stupidity further, according to a recent crime bill passed in Texas which is a republican run state the following now apply:
A recently passed anticrime law requires criminals to give their victims 24 hours notice, either orally or in writing, and to explain the nature of the crime to be committed.
It is required to commit a homicide as long as you tell the person when, and how you are going to kill them.
Granted I am not sure about the second one, but I have tracked down and verified the first. The republican state legislature passed that bill and republican Rick Perry signed it.


Since killing someone without giving them notice is illegal in TX now, it will have a wonderful effect on the murder rate in TX. Everyone knows that passing more laws will have all the positive effects intended. lol

Does this law mean that if I give the proper warning and follow through that the murder is no longer illegal? I mean, if I told them I was going to kill them and they didn't do anything to stop me, can't that be interpreted as consent?

Disclaimer: This post was meant completely in jest. No killings are planned and none have been contemplated. It was purely hypothetical.



Marc2b -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 6:31:28 AM)

How in the hell do you hide from a blind guy with a gun?



Kirata -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 7:12:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

How in the hell do you hide from a blind guy with a gun?

You keep very very quiet. [:)]

(and if you hear a click, duck)

K.





DesideriScuri -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 7:20:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
How in the hell do you hide from a blind guy with a gun?

You keep very very quiet. [:)]
(and if you hear a click, duck)
K.


Don't forget to put a lampshade over your head, too. That always works in the cartoons.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 7:45:17 AM)

It seems the person who wrote the article confused "Blind" with "Legally Blind"

One form of "Legally Blind" means that a person with otherwise normal visual acuity (20/20) has less than 20 degrees of peripheral vision.
Tunnel vision in other words.

Due to the fact that he article said "A few permits have been issued" you might just consider this a possibility instead of jumping on the 'rantwagon'.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 7:56:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
It seems the person who wrote the article confused "Blind" with "Legally Blind"
One form of "Legally Blind" means that a person with otherwise normal visual acuity (20/20) has less than 20 degrees of peripheral vision.
Tunnel vision in other words.
Due to the fact that he article said "A few permits have been issued" you might just consider this a possibility instead of jumping on the 'rantwagon'.


I hope this was more of a 'FR' than a reply to me. I pointed out "legally blind" doesn't mean the person can't see at all in my first response.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 8:00:30 AM)

It was a fast reply to the OP.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 8:20:52 AM)

FR~

Something else along similar lines...

In a recent article, a 42yo blind man was banned from driving recently.
Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2412596/Blind-man-Paul-Keatings-42-banned-road-narrowly-missing-pedestrian.html

Bearing in mind all the recent developments in cars that are able to self-drive, are we going to see more blind people behind the wheel??
*shudders*
And I wonder how many times the police pull them over and find out they are actually blind (not just the legal definition).
And how would a blind person even know that the police car behind them are flashing their lights??

The mind boggles.



thompsonx -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 2:11:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

FR~

Something else along similar lines...

In a recent article, a 42yo blind man was banned from driving recently.
Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2412596/Blind-man-Paul-Keatings-42-banned-road-narrowly-missing-pedestrian.html

Bearing in mind all the recent developments in cars that are able to self-drive, are we going to see more blind people behind the wheel??
*shudders*
And I wonder how many times the police pull them over and find out they are actually blind (not just the legal definition).
And how would a blind person even know that the police car behind them are flashing their lights??

The mind boggles.




Shades of mr. magoo.



OsideGirl -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 2:44:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I saw this article and actually thought it was a joke, until I looked at the source, and they are correct, according to the ADA it is a gray area. Legally you have to issue concealed carry permits to the blind.


I don't know about other states, but when I had a CCW, I had to take a proficiency test to get it.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 2:54:48 PM)

All I had to do was fill out paperwork,show ID and pay. Then wait for the reply in the mail, which was my license.



quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I saw this article and actually thought it was a joke, until I looked at the source, and they are correct, according to the ADA it is a gray area. Legally you have to issue concealed carry permits to the blind.


I don't know about other states, but when I had a CCW, I had to take a proficiency test to get it.





Kirata -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 4:31:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

All I had to do was fill out paperwork,show ID and pay. Then wait for the reply in the mail, which was my license.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I don't know about other states, but when I had a CCW, I had to take a proficiency test to get it.


This is where I have a problem. It is clear that the meaning of the word "militia" in the 2nd Amendment is an armed people, but there is a difference between a militia in reserve and an active militia. The minute you step off your property and go among the public armed, in my opinion you become active militia and subject to the well-regulated clause.

The meaning of "regulated" has changed over the years, today having the connotation of "control," but in the context of the 2nd Amendment the meaning was "well-ordered," i.e., well turned-out with servicable arms that they know how to use. In my view, there is no infringement in requiring that people who go among the public armed demonstrate a level of proficiency that is consonant with public safety and their weapon's effective use.

The comments quoted above illustrate that in some states there is no proficiency requirement at all. In most states, it is woefully inadequate at best. And in some states, you can take the range test with an easily-controlled .22 pistol, collect your carry license, then head to the gun store and saddle up a .357 magnum. In my opinion, that's just fucking ridiculous.

I've given some thought to this, but as I'm already off-topic I'll leave it there.

K.



graceadieu -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 8:27:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

All I had to do was fill out paperwork,show ID and pay. Then wait for the reply in the mail, which was my license.



quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I saw this article and actually thought it was a joke, until I looked at the source, and they are correct, according to the ADA it is a gray area. Legally you have to issue concealed carry permits to the blind.


I don't know about other states, but when I had a CCW, I had to take a proficiency test to get it.





I think it varies greatly from state to state. In Maryland, you apparently can't get a concealed-carry permit at all unless you can prove your life is in danger, either because of your profession (police officer, bank guard, etc) or because someone's made death threats to you (stalker, crazy ex, etc).



graceadieu -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 8:42:12 PM)

Also, on a tangentally-related point, there is a whole sport of blind target shooting, where the target has a sensor that emits a sound when the gun is pointed at it. I think that's really impressive.



EdBowie -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 9:02:08 PM)

Some places accept prior military service, or an NRA course etc. in lieu of demonstrating proficiency at the time of application.

And 'blind' covers everything from thick glasses to total loss of sight. Lots of 'legally blind (20/200) folks have driver's and pilot's licenses, as long as it is correctable to a better ratio.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I saw this article and actually thought it was a joke, until I looked at the source, and they are correct, according to the ADA it is a gray area. Legally you have to issue concealed carry permits to the blind.


I don't know about other states, but when I had a CCW, I had to take a proficiency test to get it.





EdBowie -> RE: Gun Permits for the Blind (9/10/2013 9:05:42 PM)

I think that Maryland law was struck down recently, and now it is due process for all... i.e. the state has to show a compelling reason to deny a permit.



quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

All I had to do was fill out paperwork,show ID and pay. Then wait for the reply in the mail, which was my license.



quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I saw this article and actually thought it was a joke, until I looked at the source, and they are correct, according to the ADA it is a gray area. Legally you have to issue concealed carry permits to the blind.


I don't know about other states, but when I had a CCW, I had to take a proficiency test to get it.





I think it varies greatly from state to state. In Maryland, you apparently can't get a concealed-carry permit at all unless you can prove your life is in danger, either because of your profession (police officer, bank guard, etc) or because someone's made death threats to you (stalker, crazy ex, etc).




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