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Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 7:12:33 AM   
Phydeaux


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So the new pivot is that Russia will broker international arms inspectors monitoring syria's chemical weapons.

No real comment necessary. Although Will has a great time going the debacle...
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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 7:24:08 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
So the new pivot is that Russia will broker international arms inspectors monitoring syria's chemical weapons.
No real comment necessary. Although Will has a great time going the debacle...


So, the options on the table now are:

1. Do nothing
2. Limited strikes to send a message.
3. Depose Assad.
4. Let Russia take the lead in a diplomatic solution that doesn't include our military getting involved.
5. Some combination of the above

Um, personally, I'm all in favor of #4 (#1 is my second choice, unless we get a resolution authorizing military force from the UNSC).


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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 7:27:16 AM   
Owner59


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It`s not their fault, folks.....our neo-cons just don`t have any examples of leadership to draw from and don`t know what it looks like.

"Syria positive about giving up chemical weapons"

http://news.yahoo.com/syria-positive-giving-chemical-weapons-160934250.html


"Syria on Monday quickly welcomed a call from Russia, its close ally, to place Syrian chemical arsenals under international control, then destroy them to avert a U.S. strike, but did not offer a time frame or any other specifics."


Gobama!

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 7:42:17 AM   
Hillwilliam


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I'm just glad that our young men and women aren't going into harms way for no good reason.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 8:33:57 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I'm just glad that our young men and women aren't going into harms way for no good reason.

Gosh, and aside from that this bleeding heart liberal will be glad if we don't spend a lot of money that we don't have. It's a sad day when the "tax & spend libbies" need to be the financially conservatives :)

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 8:49:42 AM   
Phydeaux


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The ironic thing to me personally, was this was one of the very few times the president persuaded me to his point of view. Of course, then he changed his point of view.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 8:53:25 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'm just glad that our young men and women aren't going into harms way for no good reason.



I'll second that thought.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 9:00:31 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
So the new pivot is that Russia will broker international arms inspectors monitoring syria's chemical weapons.
No real comment necessary. Although Will has a great time going the debacle...


So, the options on the table now are:

1. Do nothing
2. Limited strikes to send a message.
3. Depose Assad.
4. Let Russia take the lead in a diplomatic solution that doesn't include our military getting involved.
5. Some combination of the above

Um, personally, I'm all in favor of #4 (#1 is my second choice, unless we get a resolution authorizing military force from the UNSC).




Desi,

Do you remember the parable about the horse?

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of the horse, the rider was lost?

More or less saying, sometimes, being pennywise is being pound foolish. For lack of paying the cost of a nail, horse and rider or lost.

In this case, we had a chance to intervene (cheaply) early and arm secular rebels. This would have broken the Syrian/Iranian link, and ended syrias intervention into lebanon, and supporting terrorism via Hezbolla.

It also would have deprived the russians their only mediterranean base.

So we had an opportunity to make a positive difference in syria.


The Assad regime is winning on the ground. We had a second opportunity here to rebalance the strategic balance, by way of targetting Assad's air assets, command centers, and yes, perhaps the chemical weapons facilities (although I'm not in favor of that part).

This would give the FSA the chance to regroup, if the US had the fortitude to follow through.

America looks like a completely untrustworthy ally to the middle east nations that are acting as American proxies - the saudi's, the qatari's, the jordanians.


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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 9:06:00 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:


More or less saying, sometimes, being pennywise is being pound foolish.


The proverbial rhyme is saying no such thing, neither more nor less.

It is saying that small actions can snowball into large consequence.

quote:


It also would have deprived the russians their only mediterranean base.


Yeah, Uh, no.......not gonna happen, couldn't happen, that would be like Russia shutting down Vincenza. It is just not something they would watch and say, Oh, my!.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 10:03:28 AM   
cloudboy


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Yes, it looks like good news. Obama's stance seemed to work and I am grateful.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 10:15:12 AM   
DesideriScuri


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
So the new pivot is that Russia will broker international arms inspectors monitoring syria's chemical weapons.
No real comment necessary. Although Will has a great time going the debacle...

So, the options on the table now are:
1. Do nothing
2. Limited strikes to send a message.
3. Depose Assad.
4. Let Russia take the lead in a diplomatic solution that doesn't include our military getting involved.
5. Some combination of the above
Um, personally, I'm all in favor of #4 (#1 is my second choice, unless we get a resolution authorizing military force from the UNSC).

Desi,
Do you remember the parable about the horse?
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of the horse, the rider was lost?
More or less saying, sometimes, being pennywise is being pound foolish. For lack of paying the cost of a nail, horse and rider or lost.
In this case, we had a chance to intervene (cheaply) early and arm secular rebels. This would have broken the Syrian/Iranian link, and ended syrias intervention into lebanon, and supporting terrorism via Hezbolla.
It also would have deprived the russians their only mediterranean base.
So we had an opportunity to make a positive difference in syria.
The Assad regime is winning on the ground. We had a second opportunity here to rebalance the strategic balance, by way of targetting Assad's air assets, command centers, and yes, perhaps the chemical weapons facilities (although I'm not in favor of that part).
This would give the FSA the chance to regroup, if the US had the fortitude to follow through.
America looks like a completely untrustworthy ally to the middle east nations that are acting as American proxies - the saudi's, the qatari's, the jordanians.


If only we'd have armed the Afghani rebels in their fight against the Afghan regime (and then, their ally, the USSR), we'd not have had to spend so much to go into Afghanistan, topple the Taliban we helped create by arming Afghani rebels in their fight against the Afghan regime, and hunt out al Qaeda, who, as it turns out, were the Afghan rebels we armed to fight against the Afghan regime amd tjeor ally, the USSR.

Ooops.

If only we'd have crushed the Iranian elected leader to install a theocracy instead. We'd be much better off.. um... oops.

If only we'd have armed and supported Iran's neighbor and enemy in a war, we'd not have... um... oops.

While what you are saying might very well be true, what would the consequences have been of those actions? We installed Hussein in Iraq. Then, we paid to take him out. We armed the Afghan rebels, and then ended up fighting them (and still are). Our actions in Iran haven't exactly worked out in our favor, have they?

We should let Syrians decide how Syria is to be governed, and who is going to do that governing. Simply because we are militarily stronger doesn't mean we should intervene to bring about changes we think are in our favor. That's imperialism, and I absolutely do not support that. FFS, that's part of what the American Revolution was all about!

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 4:24:34 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'm just glad that our young men and women aren't going into harms way for no good reason.


This.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 6:26:33 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

4. Let Russia take the lead in a diplomatic solution that doesn't include our military getting involved.


After listening to President Obama's speech, looks like # 4.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 6:45:35 PM   
PeonForHer


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FR

Ah bollocks. Disappointing opinion from one of the experts - sorry didn't catch his name on the news - that this Russian initiative can't work on the ground (versus politically). The idea of locating and somehow 'seizing' or even controlling these chemical weapons, in the context of a civil war, seems to be pretty implausible. But, maybe those practical sorts of questions don't matter so much as the political ones.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 6:48:12 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Although Will has a great time going the debacle...

Glad to know you find mass murder entertaining.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 7:23:50 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

The idea of locating and somehow 'seizing' or even controlling these chemical weapons, in the context of a civil war, seems to be pretty implausible.


Syria 'Welcomed' Russian Proposal to Destroy Its Chemical Weapons

MOSCOW, Sept. 9, 2013

Syria today "welcomed" an offer by Russia to put its chemical weapons arsenal under international control so that they could eventually be destroyed.

The U.S. State Department said it would take a "hard look" at the Russian proposal, but quickly added it was "skeptical" that Syria would follow through.

President Obama told ABC News anchor Diane Sawyer that the Syrian reaction was a "modestly positive development" and a military strike would "absolutely" be on pause if Syria's chemical weapons were put in the hands of an international body.

Syria's statement came very quickly after the proposal was made by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in what he said was an attempt to avoid a U.S.-led strike on Syria.

"We call on the Syrian leadership not only agree on a statement of storage of chemical weapons under international control, but also its subsequent destruction, as well as about the full accession to the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons," Lavrov said in a statement to reporters.

"We will immediately join the work with Damascus if establishing international control over chemical weapons in that country helps prevent attacks," Lavrov continued.

Syria's Foreign Minister Walid al-Muallem, who met with Lavrov in Moscow earlier in the day, responded almost immediately.

"The Syrian Arab Republic welcomed the Russian initiative, based on the concerns of the Russian leadership for the lives of our citizens and the security of our country," Muallem told reporters, according to Russia's Interfax news agency.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/syria-welcomed-russian-proposal-destroy-chemical-weapons/story?id=20198655

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 7:26:43 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Oh! The Russians are on the job? I feel better and more secure, already!

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 7:28:12 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

this Russian initiative can't work on the ground (versus politically). The idea of locating and somehow 'seizing' or even controlling these chemical weapons, in the context of a civil war, seems to be pretty implausible.


Oh, you're seeing the difficulty not in Russia's offer or Syria's willingness to follow through, but Syria's ability to follow through during a civil war?

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 7:33:39 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

After listening to President Obama's speech, looks like # 4.



Hmmm. My take, after watching the President's address, was that the US is going to continue with option 6: Keep bumbling around, looking like a cow on roller skates.

The whole disaster in Obama's "get stuck on an off-teleprompter comment" foreign policy would be side-splittingly funny, if it wasn't that the whole rest of the country that will pay the price for it.

And speaking of teleprompter's, whatever happened to the guy who could give a damn good speech? This thing was written at a 5th grade level, and delivered as if he was speaking to children.

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RE: Syrian chemical weapons.... - 9/10/2013 7:34:44 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
Oh, you're seeing the difficulty not in Russia's offer or Syria's willingness to follow through, but Syria's ability to follow through during a civil war?


Yes - assuming the Syrian regime does actually have that willingness. My best hope here is still the Russian initiative - but there does seem to be widespread belief amongst US military experts that they won't actually be able to secure those weapons. Mind you, I'm not sure how much that matters: perhaps the main thing is that Assad - and maybe others - won't any longer be in a politically viable position to use them should this Russian plan go ahead.

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