quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Here in minnesota the electric company will finance you for geo and you get tax credits to boot, at little or no interest, you may have that option, worth a phonecall.

Thanks, MN. Will look into that.

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ORIGINAL: papassion

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Here in minnesota the electric company will finance you for geo and you get tax credits to boot, at little or no interest, you may have that option, worth a phonecall.

Thanks, MN. Will look into that.

I have a friend who put in geothermal heat/air conditioning. It cost him 32,000. There is no way to show this make economic sense. (when you do your calculations don't forget to show the loss of income that 32,000 could have earned per year in a good investment)

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: papassion

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Here in minnesota the electric company will finance you for geo and you get tax credits to boot, at little or no interest, you may have that option, worth a phonecall.

Thanks, MN. Will look into that.

I have a friend who put in geothermal heat/air conditioning. It cost him 32,000. There is no way to show this make economic sense. (when you do your calculations don't forget to show the loss of income that 32,000 could have earned per year in a good investment)

If it saves 500/month on the electric bill, that's a pretty good rate of return. Almost 20%/year.
Of course, you'd subtract the cost of your normal HVAC system from the 32K and come up with about 25K. then your saving $500/month comes to almost 25%/year.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: papassion

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Here in minnesota the electric company will finance you for geo and you get tax credits to boot, at little or no interest, you may have that option, worth a phonecall.

Thanks, MN. Will look into that.

I have a friend who put in geothermal heat/air conditioning. It cost him 32,000. There is no way to show this make economic sense. (when you do your calculations don't forget to show the loss of income that 32,000 could have earned per year in a good investment)

If it saves 500/month on the electric bill, that's a pretty good rate of return. Almost 20%/year.

Of course, you'd subtract the cost of your normal HVAC system from the 32K and come up with about 25K. then your saving $500/month comes to almost 25%/year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: papassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Here in minnesota the electric company will finance you for geo and you get tax credits to boot, at little or no interest, you may have that option, worth a phonecall.

Thanks, MN. Will look into that.

I have a friend who put in geothermal heat/air conditioning. It cost him 32,000. There is no way to show this make economic sense. (when you do your calculations don't forget to show the loss of income that 32,000 could have earned per year in a good investment)

If it saves 500/month on the electric bill, that's a pretty good rate of return. Almost 20%/year.

Of course, you'd subtract the cost of your normal HVAC system from the 32K and come up with about 25K. then your saving $500/month comes to almost 25%/year.

I have a worker who has an all electric home. His electric bill is about 250/month year round. Heat, light, air. We get cold weather in Johnstown, Pa and he has a fairly nice house. Geothermal works by running a compressor. They are efficient but imagine running your airconditioning compressor (big enough to cool the entire house) all day and night. Same thing. Geothermal is efficient but not free.

How could he save 500/month if his bill was only 250/mo?

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion



I have a worker who has an all electric home. His electric bill is about 250/month year round. Heat, light, air. We get cold weather in Johnstown, Pa and he has a fairly nice house. Geothermal works by running a compressor. They are efficient but imagine running your airconditioning compressor (big enough to cool the entire house) all day and night. Same thing. Geothermal is efficient but not free.

How could he save 500/month if his bill was only 250/mo?

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

As part of a series of posts on pointing out the downsides of renewable energy sources I pointed out that Germany's power grid was becoming unstable and it has resulted in high damages for several foundries and fab industries.

Many people have contest that. Here is another article on it saying

German manual intervention into the electric grid is up 700% in 2 years. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-10/german-power-supply-is-becoming-less-secure-grid-regulator-says.html?cmpid=yhoo


Before you get too excited about the "23 % of its energy from renewables" remember that biomass generation and dams comprise most of that number.

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

I have a friend who put in geothermal heat/air conditioning. It cost him 32,000. There is no way to show this make economic sense. (when you do your calculations don't forget to show the loss of income that 32,000 could have earned per year in a good investment)

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

And people predicted the world would end in 2000, and in 1000. And in October. And your religion is no more convincing than theirs.

Are you denying the observed facts?

Are you aware that sea level is already up about 9 inches? That that is mostly from the oceans being warmer but it will go up as the terrestrial ice melts?

Are you denying the study showing that the ocean is acidifying faster than at any time at least as far back as the P-T extinction event which was most likely caused by a sudden climate change event.

Are you denying that as the climate warms our temperate zone crops, upon which out civilization is built, will have to grown closer to the poles which means less land to grow on? That that loss of food will inevitably result in conflict over food supplies?

It's not up 9 inches....if it were, Manhattan would be un-driveable. Miami would be buried. Caskets would be floating in New Orleans.

Actually it is 9 inches
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise
Between 1870 and 2004 we saw 195 mm of rise. Between 2004 and 2009 sea level rise averaged 3.3 mm a year. totaling that up I get 211.5 mm since 1870 which works out to 8.3 inches. If rise continued at that pace, and there is no reason to think it is substantially slowed, that adds another 9.9 mm since. which is 221.4 mm = 8.7 inches.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

I have a friend who put in geothermal heat/air conditioning. It cost him 32,000. There is no way to show this make economic sense. (when you do your calculations don't forget to show the loss of income that 32,000 could have earned per year in a good investment)

Just how fucking much would 32k make in a year.The bank pays a fraction of one percent. One percent would be $320. Now deduct inflation from that and you have fuck all. Where I live 500-800 per month electricity bills are common if you have an a/c.
Now lets look at this from a little different perspective. One day oil will be too expensive to burn as fuel. As oil approaches that price those not affected by the price of electricity will reap the benifits. I remember sitting n a line for gasoline when the price of gas was.70 cents a gallon. I turned to my friend and told him "if the price of gas ever goes to a dollar a gallon fuck em I am walking". Well it is approaching $5 a gallon and I am still driving but I have not bought gasoline in more than thirty years. I spent the money then so I would not have to spend the money now...Just like the fellow in your story. All he needs to do is add some solar pannels and his system works for free.
Tell us once again why it is better to pay for electricity than to get it for free?

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
My error....I presumed we were talking about fairly recent time scales such as when all this discussion essentially began (as in 10 - 20 years ago).

I'd imagine it's probably up a couple feet or more since the Black Plague time period as well.

But, yes, according to that timeline, it does appear to be up approx. 9 inches.

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Now, for my part, I am fully behind a switch to nat gas and nuclear.

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: papassion

I have a friend who put in geothermal heat/air conditioning. It cost him 32,000. There is no way to show this make economic sense. (when you do your calculations don't forget to show the loss of income that 32,000 could have earned per year in a good investment)

Just how fucking much would 32k make in a year.The bank pays a fraction of one percent. One percent would be $320. Now deduct inflation from that and you have fuck all. Where I live 500-800 per month electricity bills are common if you have an a/c.
Now lets look at this from a little different perspective. One day oil will be too expensive to burn as fuel. As oil approaches that price those not affected by the price of electricity will reap the benifits. I remember sitting n a line for gasoline when the price of gas was.70 cents a gallon. I turned to my friend and told him "if the price of gas ever goes to a dollar a gallon fuck em I am walking". Well it is approaching $5 a gallon and I am still driving but I have not bought gasoline in more than thirty years. I spent the money then so I would not have to spend the money now...Just like the fellow in your story. All he needs to do is add some solar pannels and his system works for free.
Tell us once again why it is better to pay for electricity than to get it for free?

Educate us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
My error....I presumed we were talking about fairly recent time scales such as when all this discussion essentially began (as in 10 - 20 years ago).

I'd imagine it's probably up a couple feet or more since the Black Plague time period as well.

But, yes, according to that timeline, it does appear to be up approx. 9 inches.

Usually when discussing AGW the baseline is the beginning of the industrial revolution which is usually pegged as 1750. In this case detailed records started being kept around 1870 so that is the baseline in use.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

By the way, Patterson as well as many solar physicists are claiming that we are entering into a period of global cooling.

Which, for the record, would be far more disastrous than global warming...

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: papassion

I have a friend who put in geothermal heat/air conditioning. It cost him 32,000. There is no way to show this make economic sense. (when you do your calculations don't forget to show the loss of income that 32,000 could have earned per year in a good investment)

Just how fucking much would 32k make in a year.The bank pays a fraction of one percent. One percent would be $320. Now deduct inflation from that and you have fuck all. Where I live 500-800 per month electricity bills are common if you have an a/c.
Now lets look at this from a little different perspective. One day oil will be too expensive to burn as fuel. As oil approaches that price those not affected by the price of electricity will reap the benifits. I remember sitting n a line for gasoline when the price of gas was.70 cents a gallon. I turned to my friend and told him "if the price of gas ever goes to a dollar a gallon fuck em I am walking". Well it is approaching $5 a gallon and I am still driving but I have not bought gasoline in more than thirty years. I spent the money then so I would not have to spend the money now...Just like the fellow in your story. All he needs to do is add some solar pannels and his system works for free.
Tell us once again why it is better to pay for electricity than to get it for free?

Educate us.

Propane/biodiesel

quote:

Of course...my (obvious) error.

You haven't purchased gasoline....kind of like a guy who says he doesn't eat dairy....only sour cream and yogurt (not like it's milk or anything).

Got it....understood.

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You're totally self sufficient. Off the grid even.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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Of course...my (obvious) error.

You haven't purchased gasoline....kind of like a guy who says he doesn't eat dairy....only sour cream and yogurt (not like it's milk or anything).

Got it....understood.

Google could disabuse any ignorance of the relationship between propane and gasoline and the relationship between amonia and propane.
Bio-diesel is made from waste vegitable oil which I am paid to carry off.
Gasoline is aproaching $5... propane about a dollar, amonia [:D]cheaper still. The best gasoline available at the pump is 92 octaine. Propane,no matter where you buy it...nigeria,mexico,u.s...,is 105 + octane. Ninty two octane gasoline limits compression ratio to about 8.5:1...variable valve timing can up that to about 9.5:1. One hundred and five octane limits compression ratio to the mechanical limits of the engine. One of my cars runs at 14.5:1...350 bhp from 4 liters(240cid) naturally aspirated.
To follow up on your gastronomic analogy one might say that while I don't pay for and drink soy milk but I do enjoy gellatto which is essentially free.