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10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/10/2013 8:06:49 PM   
DesideriScuri


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http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/running-transcript-president-obamas-sept-10-speech-on-syria/2013/09/10/a8826aa6-1a2e-11e3-8685-5021e0c41964_story.html

quote:

PRESIDENT OBAMA: My fellow Americans, tonight I want to talk to you about Syria -- why it matters, and where we go from here.

Over the past two years, what began as a series of peaceful protests against the repressive regime of Bashar al-Assad has turned into a brutal civil war. Over 100,000 people have been killed. Millions have fled the country. In that time, America has worked with allies to provide humanitarian support, to help the moderate opposition, and to shape a political settlement. But I have resisted calls for military action, because we cannot resolve someone else’s civil war through force, particularly after a decade of war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The situation profoundly changed, though, on August 21st, when Assad’s government gassed to death over a thousand people, including hundreds of children. The images from this massacre are sickening: Men, women, children lying in rows, killed by poison gas. Others foaming at the mouth, gasping for breath. A father clutching his dead children, imploring them to get up and walk. On that terrible night, the world saw in gruesome detail the terrible nature of chemical weapons, and why the overwhelming majority of humanity has declared them off-limits -- a crime against humanity, and a violation of the laws of war.

This was not always the case. In World War I, American GIs were among the many thousands killed by deadly gas in the trenches of Europe. In World War II, the Nazis used gas to inflict the horror of the Holocaust. Because these weapons can kill on a mass scale, with no distinction between soldier and infant, the civilized world has spent a century working to ban them. And in 1997, the United States Senate overwhelmingly approved an international agreement prohibiting the use of chemical weapons, now joined by 189 governments that represent 98 percent of humanity.

On August 21st, these basic rules were violated, along with our sense of common humanity. No one disputes that chemical weapons were used in Syria. The world saw thousands of videos, cell phone pictures, and social media accounts from the attack, and humanitarian organizations told stories of hospitals packed with people who had symptoms of poison gas.

Moreover, we know the Assad regime was responsible. In the days leading up to August 21st, we know that Assad’s chemical weapons personnel prepared for an attack near an area where they mix sarin gas. They distributed gasmasks to their troops. Then they fired rockets from a regime-controlled area into 11 neighborhoods that the regime has been trying to wipe clear of opposition forces. Shortly after those rockets landed, the gas spread, and hospitals filled with the dying and the wounded. We know senior figures in Assad’s military machine reviewed the results of the attack, and the regime increased their shelling of the same neighborhoods in the days that followed. We’ve also studied samples of blood and hair from people at the site that tested positive for sarin.

When dictators commit atrocities, they depend upon the world to look the other way until those horrifying pictures fade from memory. But these things happened. The facts cannot be denied. The question now is what the United States of America, and the international community, is prepared to do about it. Because what happened to those people -- to those children -- is not only a violation of international law, it’s also a danger to our security.

Let me explain why. If we fail to act, the Assad regime will see no reason to stop using chemical weapons. As the ban against these weapons erodes, other tyrants will have no reason to think twice about acquiring poison gas, and using them. Over time, our troops would again face the prospect of chemical warfare on the battlefield. And it could be easier for terrorist organizations to obtain these weapons, and to use them to attack civilians.

If fighting spills beyond Syria’s borders, these weapons could threaten allies like Turkey, Jordan, and Israel. And a failure to stand against the use of chemical weapons would weaken prohibitions against other weapons of mass destruction, and embolden Assad’s ally, Iran -- which must decide whether to ignore international law by building a nuclear weapon, or to take a more peaceful path.

This is not a world we should accept. This is what’s at stake. And that is why, after careful deliberation, I determined that it is in the national security interests of the United States to respond to the Assad regime’s use of chemical weapons through a targeted military strike. The purpose of this strike would be to deter Assad from using chemical weapons, to degrade his regime’s ability to use them, and to make clear to the world that we will not tolerate their use.

That’s my judgment as Commander-in-Chief. But I’m also the President of the world’s oldest constitutional democracy. So even though I possess the authority to order military strikes, I believed it was right, in the absence of a direct or imminent threat to our security, to take this debate to Congress. I believe our democracy is stronger when the President acts with the support of Congress. And I believe that America acts more effectively abroad when we stand together.

This is especially true after a decade that put more and more war-making power in the hands of the President, and more and more burdens on the shoulders of our troops, while sidelining the people’s representatives from the critical decisions about when we use force.

Now, I know that after the terrible toll of Iraq and Afghanistan, the idea of any military action, no matter how limited, is not going to be popular. After all, I’ve spent four and a half years working to end wars, not to start them. Our troops are out of Iraq. Our troops are coming home from Afghanistan. And I know Americans want all of us in Washington

-- especially me -- to concentrate on the task of building our nation here at home: putting people back to work, educating our kids, growing our middle class.

It’s no wonder, then, that you’re asking hard questions. So let me answer some of the most important questions that I’ve heard from members of Congress, and that I’ve read in letters that you’ve sent to me.

First, many of you have asked, won’t this put us on a slippery slope to another war? One man wrote to me that we are “still recovering from our involvement in Iraq.” A veteran put it more bluntly: “This nation is sick and tired of war.”

My answer is simple: I will not put American boots on the ground in Syria. I will not pursue an open-ended action like Iraq or Afghanistan. I will not pursue a prolonged air campaign like Libya or Kosovo. This would be a targeted strike to achieve a clear objective: deterring the use of chemical weapons, and degrading Assad’s capabilities.

Others have asked whether it’s worth acting if we don’t take out Assad. As some members of Congress have said, there’s no point in simply doing a “pinprick” strike in Syria.

Let me make something clear: The United States military doesn’t do pinpricks. Even a limited strike will send a message to Assad that no other nation can deliver. I don’t think we should remove another dictator with force -- we learned from Iraq that doing so makes us responsible for all that comes next. But a targeted strike can make Assad, or any other dictator, think twice before using chemical weapons.

Other questions involve the dangers of retaliation. We don’t dismiss any threats, but the Assad regime does not have the ability to seriously threaten our military. Any other retaliation they might seek is in line with threats that we face every day. Neither Assad nor his allies have any interest in escalation that would lead to his demise. And our ally, Israel, can defend itself with overwhelming force, as well as the unshakeable support of the United States of America.

Many of you have asked a broader question: Why should we get involved at all in a place that’s so complicated, and where -- as one person wrote to me -- “those who come after Assad may be enemies of human rights?”

It’s true that some of Assad’s opponents are extremists. But al Qaeda will only draw strength in a more chaotic Syria if people there see the world doing nothing to prevent innocent civilians from being gassed to death. The majority of the Syrian people -- and the Syrian opposition we work with -- just want to live in peace, with dignity and freedom. And the day after any military action, we would redouble our efforts to achieve a political solution that strengthens those who reject the forces of tyranny and extremism.

Finally, many of you have asked: Why not leave this to other countries, or seek solutions short of force? As several people wrote to me, “We should not be the world’s policeman.”

I agree, and I have a deeply held preference for peaceful solutions. Over the last two years, my administration has tried diplomacy and sanctions, warning and negotiations -- but chemical weapons were still used by the Assad regime.

However, over the last few days, we’ve seen some encouraging signs. In part because of the credible threat of U.S. military action, as well as constructive talks that I had with President Putin, the Russian government has indicated a willingness to join with the international community in pushing Assad to give up his chemical weapons. The Assad regime has now admitted that it has these weapons, and even said they’d join the Chemical Weapons Convention, which prohibits their use.

It’s too early to tell whether this offer will succeed, and any agreement must verify that the Assad regime keeps its commitments. But this initiative has the potential to remove the threat of chemical weapons without the use of force, particularly because Russia is one of Assad’s strongest allies.

I have, therefore, asked the leaders of Congress to postpone a vote to authorize the use of force while we pursue this diplomatic path. I’m sending Secretary of State John Kerry to meet his Russian counterpart on Thursday, and I will continue my own discussions with President Putin. I’ve spoken to the leaders of two of our closest allies, France and the United Kingdom, and we will work together in consultation with Russia and China to put forward a resolution at the U.N. Security Council requiring Assad to give up his chemical weapons, and to ultimately destroy them under international control. We’ll also give U.N. inspectors the opportunity to report their findings about what happened on August 21st. And we will continue to rally support from allies from Europe to the Americas -- from Asia to the Middle East -- who agree on the need for action.

Meanwhile, I’ve ordered our military to maintain their current posture to keep the pressure on Assad, and to be in a position to respond if diplomacy fails. And tonight, I give thanks again to our military and their families for their incredible strength and sacrifices.

My fellow Americans, for nearly seven decades, the United States has been the anchor of global security. This has meant doing more than forging international agreements -- it has meant enforcing them. The burdens of leadership are often heavy, but the world is a better place because we have borne them.

And so, to my friends on the right, I ask you to reconcile your commitment to America’s military might with a failure to act when a cause is so plainly just. To my friends on the left, I ask you to reconcile your belief in freedom and dignity for all people with those images of children writhing in pain, and going still on a cold hospital floor. For sometimes resolutions and statements of condemnation are simply not enough.

Indeed, I’d ask every member of Congress, and those of you watching at home tonight, to view those videos of the attack, and then ask: What kind of world will we live in if the United States of America sees a dictator brazenly violate international law with poison gas, and we choose to look the other way?

Franklin Roosevelt once said, “Our national determination to keep free of foreign wars and foreign entanglements cannot prevent us from feeling deep concern when ideals and principles that we have cherished are challenged.” Our ideals and principles, as well as our national security, are at stake in Syria, along with our leadership of a world where we seek to ensure that the worst weapons will never be used.

America is not the world’s policeman. Terrible things happen across the globe, and it is beyond our means to right every wrong. But when, with modest effort and risk, we can stop children from being gassed to death, and thereby make our own children safer over the long run, I believe we should act. That’s what makes America different. That’s what makes us exceptional. With humility, but with resolve, let us never lose sight of that essential truth.

Thank you. God bless you. And God bless the United States of America.


_____________________________

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/10/2013 8:27:48 PM   
DesideriScuri


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The case for military action:
    quote:

    When dictators commit atrocities, they depend upon the world to look the other way until those horrifying pictures fade from memory. But these things happened. The facts cannot be denied. The question now is what the United States of America, and the international community, is prepared to do about it. Because what happened to those people -- to those children -- is not only a violation of international law, it’s also a danger to our security.

    Let me explain why. If we fail to act, the Assad regime will see no reason to stop using chemical weapons. As the ban against these weapons erodes, other tyrants will have no reason to think twice about acquiring poison gas, and using them. Over time, our troops would again face the prospect of chemical warfare on the battlefield. And it could be easier for terrorist organizations to obtain these weapons, and to use them to attack civilians.

    If fighting spills beyond Syria’s borders, these weapons could threaten allies like Turkey, Jordan, and Israel. And a failure to stand against the use of chemical weapons would weaken prohibitions against other weapons of mass destruction, and embolden Assad’s ally, Iran -- which must decide whether to ignore international law by building a nuclear weapon, or to take a more peaceful path.


Here's what we have:
1. It's a violation of International law.
2. Assad will have no reason to stop.
3. Other tyrants will be more likely to use them.
4. Our military could face chemical weapons on the battlefield if more tyrants are willing to use them.
5. Terrorist organizations could find it easier to get chemical weapons to use against civilians.
6. The weapons could be used outside of Syria's borders, impacting our allies.
7. It would weaken prohibitions against other WMD (which would embolden Iran in it's nuclear weapon ambitions)

#1-3 all come down to the US playing World Cop. It's not "if the world community doesn't act..." It's, "if we [the US] don't act..."

#4. While this is true, it was true before, too. Any country who thinks that using WMD against US troops will aid their cause if we don't act when Assad uses WMD against his own citizens, is a country that isn't very bright. There is a clear difference between attacking US Citizens and attacking your own citizens within your own borders.

#5. "Could" You don't think there are countries out there that have WMD programs that terrorists could get their hands on? Please.

#6. At that point, we'd have reason to intervene.

#7. No, it wouldn't. If any prohibition was weakened, it would be the prohibition against using chemical weapons. In truth, the only thing that would really be weakened by inaction is American Imperialism.

    quote:

    That’s my judgment as Commander-in-Chief. But I’m also the President of the world’s oldest constitutional democracy. So even though I possess the authority to order military strikes, I believed it was right, in the absence of a direct or imminent threat to our security, to take this debate to Congress. I believe our democracy is stronger when the President acts with the support of Congress. And I believe that America acts more effectively abroad when we stand together.


None of the reasons he stated give him the authority to order military strikes.

And, this was just too perfect to pass up, so I really hope you are reading this MN, the President even admits that there is no direct or imminent threat to our security.

Where is the authority to order military strikes without Congressional approval?

He had to resort to emotional pleas because he has no legal basis.

Edited to fix a GD formatting error. Dammit.

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 9/10/2013 8:28:30 PM >


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/10/2013 8:31:48 PM   
TheHeretic


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The transcript just doesn't provide the, "you people are a bunch of dumbass children who need me to pause after every sentence," delivery.

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/10/2013 8:36:55 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
The transcript just doesn't provide the, "you people are a bunch of dumbass children who need me to pause after every sentence," delivery.


That's not the way I heard it. I interpreted it as him trying to figure out if he was supposed to say (pause) or just do it.

Maybe the teleprompter only had a Pentium I in it, without enough RAM to keep up?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/10/2013 8:42:44 PM   
JeffBC


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I pretty much concur with your analysis DS and I think the emotional plea was pathetic. As if the US cared about children dying anywhere in the world including the US.

He's got a great speech writer and he's got that big dopey grin that everyone loves but it was all smoke & mirrors.

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/10/2013 8:53:15 PM   
DarkSteven


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I still don't understand why the US is involved. This is the UN's job.

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/10/2013 10:11:13 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Because our President drew a red line, that's why DS

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/10/2013 11:14:23 PM   
Phydeaux


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JOE SCARBOROUGH: Good God, Hugh, it's Mr. Magoo's foreign policy. This guy is stumbling through history. He couldn't be doing it at a worse time. In the last hour, the Washington Post posted, their editorial board said that Obama enters the speech night in a deep political hole of his own digging, his foreign policy, he's been stumbling, improvising and incoherent. I think that's putting it politely.

You look at the mistakes they've made over the past few weeks, talking about the shot across the bow, a "unbelievably small strike," you know, leaking that the strike is going to be small enough so that Obama doesn't embarrass himself. And then John Kerry commits a gaffe, Putin seizes on it, Assad piles on, then Kerry says it won't work. Susan Rice says it's not going to work and at the same time, Obama said, hey wait a second, this might work.

I have never seen anything like this and I have to tell you, the people that are on my show, as you know, their not conservative journalists. They work for Washington Post, New York Times, Newsweek, you name it, they're all calling saying, this is the worst presidential performance they've ever seen. Even The New York Times this morning said that he's facing a hollowed presidency. (Hugh Hewitt Show, September 10, 2013)

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/11/2013 2:19:15 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

He's got a great speech writer and he's got that big dopey grin that everyone loves but it was all smoke & mirrors.

CAPTION CONTEST!!

I'm going with "The Man Who Wasn't There"

K.




Attachment (1)

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/11/2013 4:43:09 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I still don't understand why the US is involved. This is the UN's job.


DarkSteven, that was pretty much where I was going, but failed to include that. It was hinted at by questioning our authority to act. I simply don't see why, unless we are World Cop, we are involved at this point.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/11/2013 10:15:05 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
CAPTION CONTEST!!

I'm going with "The Man Who Wasn't There"



The "Headless Houseman."







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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/11/2013 10:36:54 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:


None of the reasons he stated give him the authority to order military strikes.


I thought the president does have constitutional authority to order military action for whatever reason. He only needs congress for funding.

What kills me is, if we strike at Assaud we are aiding the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Quada not to mention the risk that chemical weapons could fall into their hands. It would be like fighting with the Snotzis against the Japanese.


< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 9/11/2013 10:37:39 AM >


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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/11/2013 12:20:57 PM   
BenevolentM


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I would think this thread would be more lively.

quote:

PRESIDENT OBAMA: ... I have, therefore, asked the leaders of Congress to postpone a vote to authorize the use of force while we pursue this diplomatic path. ...


Even Bush one and two initially pursued a diplomatic path.

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/11/2013 12:29:40 PM   
mnottertail


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Nope. Didn't happen.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/11/2013 12:38:39 PM >


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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/11/2013 8:06:38 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope. Didn't happen.


Please elaborate.

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/11/2013 9:53:53 PM   
popeye1250


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It sounded like a salesjob.
He was comming up with "reasons" why (we) should get involved in Syria that rang hollow.
It made me wonder if he was even aware of the lop-sided polls of the American People who are hugely against this.
Why is it only the people in Washington who want to play "world policeman?"
This is very reminicient of the Vietnam War in the late 60's early 70's. "Everyone" was against it!
We have no business being in or getting involved in Syria's civil war. There is no gain for us, just more loss of our troops and pissing away tons more money that we don't have. It's an Arab problem just like Darfur is an African problem.
I was watching CNN for a few nights and they had that "suspect journalist" Christianne ("Open sore") Amanpour on and she was an absolute cheerleader for getting us involved in Syria just like she was getting us involved in Bosnia/ Yugoslavia on the wrong side of course. (I read her bio and there's a few things in it that aren't very flattering as to her "reporting" ability, she makes things up)
Watching Charlie Rose right now and one of his guests (NYT) said that all their polls show that "Americans" are not interested in being the world policeman.
Obama must be tone deaf to that fact?
Also, CNN said that the U.S. has been supplying the rebels in Syria with arms for the last two weeks. (Again Obama doesn't listen.)
Obama needs to keep his mouth shut and not threaten people with red lines when he can't back it up and where we have absolutely no interests.
I saw a photo of Obama and Putin sitting together and Obama is fumbling with his pants and the caption read; "Obama gets pantsed by Putin."
Obama is way out of his league with people like Putin. They may listen to him in Chicago but not in Moscow.

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/14/2013 12:47:57 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:


None of the reasons he stated give him the authority to order military strikes.


I thought the president does have constitutional authority to order military action for whatever reason. He only needs congress for funding.

What kills me is, if we strike at Assaud we are aiding the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Quada not to mention the risk that chemical weapons could fall into their hands. It would be like fighting with the Snotzis against the Japanese.




I don't think so. I believe there has to be a *direct threat* or direct interest for the U.S. to get involved under the war powers act.
Savages in a muslim country killing each other doesn't qualify.

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/14/2013 1:18:44 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Let me make something clear: The United States military doesn’t do pinpricks.







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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/14/2013 1:33:37 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:


None of the reasons he stated give him the authority to order military strikes.


I thought the president does have constitutional authority to order military action for whatever reason. He only needs congress for funding.

What kills me is, if we strike at Assaud we are aiding the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Quada not to mention the risk that chemical weapons could fall into their hands. It would be like fighting with the Snotzis against the Japanese.



I thought the kewel thing about chemical weapons was that anyone could mix that shit up in the bathtub?


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/14/2013 1:41:53 PM >

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RE: 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address - 9/14/2013 1:35:59 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The transcript just doesn't provide the, "you people are a bunch of dumbass children who need me to pause after every sentence," delivery.



Perhaps it was only the dumbass children who could notice the polite pause that the president did for their edification?

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