JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed

JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/11/2013 5:05:06 PM)
The Rich Get Richer Through the Recovery The top 10 percent of earners took more than half of the country’s total income in 2012, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting the relevant data a century ago, according to an updated study by the prominent economists Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty. The top 1 percent took more than one-fifth of the income earned by Americans, one of the highest levels on record since 1913, when the government instituted an income tax.

cloudboy -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/11/2013 5:08:17 PM)
Graph: [image]local://upfiles/210115/D58B3BC179674943B91B817B98F6D94E.jpg[/image]

JeffBC -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/11/2013 8:06:27 PM)
Not quite sure why you tagged me in this post but yes. And it isn't exactly a new trend either. The longer-term statistics are equally disheartening. It isn't Obama or Bush. It isn't the Republicans or the Democrats. It's systemic corruption and the game of thrones.

cloudboy -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/11/2013 10:03:54 PM)
This has been one of your talking points. You once even linked a youtube video about it. I might be wrong, but this is also arguably your top political issue (or one of the top ones.) Wealth distribution that is this skewed reflects a broken economy and the need for some kind of tax reform to correct it. Conservatives are too worked up about guns, repealing the Affordable Care Act, Benghazi, the IRS, voter ID laws, and stopping immigration reform that the real issues go unnoticed by them.

tweakabelle -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 12:11:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The Rich Get Richer Through the Recovery The top 10 percent of earners took more than half of the country’s total income in 2012, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting the relevant data a century ago, according to an updated study by the prominent economists Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty. The top 1 percent took more than one-fifth of the income earned by Americans, one of the highest levels on record since 1913, when the government instituted an income tax. These figures reveal just how much of the pie rich Americans are keeping for themselves. I read somewhere that about 50 million Americans are living below the poverty line. I'd guess a similar number are on or barely above the poverty line. Yet the looney Right and GOP still insist that millionaires and billionaires cannot afford to pay more taxers than their already disproportionately small share .... go figure.

vincentML -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 5:52:13 AM)
While I sympathize with the "bash the rich" sentiment ~ it is a time honored American theme ~ let me point out that in the graph "income" is defined as market income. The graph reflects the movement in the Dow Jones Average. Wage income is not included. Not to say that a graph of wage income would not represent a sorry tale. And not to say that wage income and investment income are not reflective of the illusion of "equal opportunity." It is a comparison of apples to oranges nevertheless.

jlf1961 -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 6:01:24 AM)
Are we trying to blame JeffBC for this or are we trying to confirm he was right? Actually, I agree with JeffBC, it is nothing new.

cloudboy -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 11:10:35 AM)
This hurts the demand side of the US economy whatever the semantics. Skewed wealth distribution and large military / defense spending is a banana republic model.

getoutnow -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 11:15:57 AM)
You need to understand why the rich keep on getting richer. They have the money to invest in new enterprises which then pay them dividends down the line. Rinse and repeat. It's not the job of the state to give hand outs to everyone especially those who deem themselves poor. The US is a very capitalist country. Very entrepreneurial. Want to stop being poor? Want a better life. Well, better roll up your sleeves and go work for it. I may have been born poor, but I'll be damned if I will let that define me. I came to the US with nothing and through work. I've been doing pretty good. There is still a lot of money to be made in the US.

mnottertail -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 11:25:49 AM)
Cute little story, but america is anything but your fairytale brand of capitalism. Government has made corporate enabling regulations, aided and abetted the trusts, subsidized war profiteers and wholesale assisted in moving jobs (and profits) overseas while exempting them from taxes, additionally have made the common us taxpayer subsidize the workforce while the corporate masters lined their pockets in bonus, by defending a non-liveable wage, and setting them up for food stamps, welfare, and medical assistance. They also allowed much cornering of the markets by a few individuals, greased the wheels of unfair competition and so forth. Nah, it wasn't hard work. The small business guys dont get those sort of breaks.

getoutnow -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 11:31:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Nah, it wasn't hard work. The small business guys dont get those sort of breaks. I completely agree with every word you have said. I have the same position also. However, instead of saying woe is me and doing nothing. I decided to do something. There are loop-holes in the game. You just need to know where they are and exploit them for your own benefit. There are some sectors, believe it or not. Which are always recession proof.

mnottertail -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 11:45:57 AM)
LOL. Really? I guess I will look into it.

papassion -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 12:06:16 PM)
The deck is stacked against the "little guy?" Can you explain how Warren Bufett, Bill gates, Paul Allen, Mr. Hewlett, Mr Packard, Mr. Dell, Sam Walton, etc etc etc. got to the big time? Can you name any company that started out as a "mega corporation?" Without someone willing to take big risks and hard work, it won't happen. Its easy to blame the rich if you arn't. But who's fault is that?

Hillwilliam -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 12:14:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion Without someone willing to take big risks and hard work, it won't happen. Its easy to blame the rich if you arn't. But who's fault is that? The only problem is that even WITH someone willing to take big risks and work hard, it rarely happens. Seriously, you went back a half century of self made, wealthy people and found so few. How many in this country are 'old money'? I don't blame the rich. I blame a system that allows them to make the rules to suit themselves and to hell with everyone else.

mnottertail -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 12:17:24 PM)
Warren Bufett (Buffet) OPM Bill gates Theft of intellectual property Paul Allen same Mr. Hewlett born into money Mr Packard his father a lawyer, they were well to do, and that gave him his start Mr. Dell Parents had him well off enough for his start. Oh yeah, and fucking the public: In recent years, however, not everything has gone right for Michael Dell or his company. Poorly built computers resulted in the company taking a $300 million charge to fix the faulty machines, a huge issue for the company that resulted in Dell losing its top perch atop the industry. In an effort to correct things, Dell returned in 2007 as CEO, but the results have been mixed. Poor products continued to plague the company, and despite Dell Computer's efforts to play down the issue, documents later revealed that employees were well aware of the issues affecting millions of its computers. In July 2010, Michael Dell made headlines when he agreed to pay more than $100 million in penalties in order to settle charges of accounting fraud that had been filed by the Security and Exchange Commission. According to the charges, Dell Computer inflated its earning statements by counting rebates from the chip maker Intel that were issued to Dell to encourage the company not to use chips from Advanced Micro Devices in its computers and servers. By padding its statements, investigators claimed, Dell Computer had misled investors about its actual earnings. Sam Walton by fucking his suppliers, the united states public, and his employees. Using taxpayer money so that he could make millions while we paid foodstamps, welfare, and medical assistance for his employees.

evesgrden -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 12:40:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: getoutnow quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Nah, it wasn't hard work. The small business guys dont get those sort of breaks. I completely agree with every word you have said. I have the same position also. However, instead of saying woe is me and doing nothing. I decided to do something. There are loop-holes in the game. You just need to know where they are and exploit them for your own benefit. There are some sectors, believe it or not. Which are always recession proof. The deck is not stacked against you if you're brilliant. The folks you mentioned are not your average "little guy". They are by far the exception which is what makes them so very notable. There are still another 300,000,000 people in the country to account for. Used to be that if a man did "an honest day's work", he could set aside money for a down payment on a house, help his kids through school and even save some for retirement. That was on one salary. You would think that with two salaries life would be easier. All things being equal, it should be.

JeffBC -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 6:32:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy This has been one of your talking points. You once even linked a youtube video about it. I might be wrong, but this is also arguably your top political issue (or one of the top ones.) Ahhhh.... you were adding supporting information. quote: Wealth distribution that is this skewed reflects a broken economy and the need for some kind of tax reform to correct it. It doesn't "reflect" a broken economy. It IS a broken economy. An economy is "money in motion". The rich don't spend money, the poor can't spend money, the middle class spends money. As our middle class collapses, so does the economy. This is not a single damned economic trick that anyone can do about that. You can't get out of it with "austerity". You can't get out of it with Govt. spending. Printing money doesn't help nor does restricting it.

getoutnow -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 6:43:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evesgrden The deck is not stacked against you if you're brilliant. Well, you don't have to be brilliant. You just need a good idea, great timing and a good work ethic. The people who are rich were those who were able to capitalize on an opportunity that allowed them to better themselves. Let me explain it for you. 6 months ago, my out goings were more than my income. I networked and put into place certain business practices. Now, I have reversed that trend. I have been approached to invest my own time into 3 distinct businesses. I am mulling a 4th which is a food truck and all I need to do is invest money and my knowledge in a specific area. Now what happens when those businesses succeed and I leverage my time into other ventures 5th, 6th, 7th, etc. How about when instead of 1 food truck, there is 5 or 10 when it the business expands out of the state. Well for the uninitiated, my income equals that of several people working in 1 day. I'll start to earn $5-10k or more a day and since I am smart, I'll then re-invest that money into other ventures and only take a percentage and have a nice portfoilio. Right now, I'm in the entrepreneurial mindset. My expenses are $1400 a month or less. I have no car, no cell phone contract and no debt. This how rich people do it. It's not that difficult to do. Ultimately you just need vision and not to be bogged down into the weeds by life.

getoutnow -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/12/2013 7:12:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC The rich don't spend money. They do, it's called investments. /Sigh. Actually, if you were in the US like I am. The housing market has actually picked up. Where I am, there is a lack of inventory. This means that confidence is slowly coming coming back. Soon, the good times will be back. It's an exciting time to be in the US actually. If you don't see things that way, well who cares. There's a lot of opportunity around.

cloudboy -> RE: JeffBC Economic Update: Return of the Guilded Age Confirmed (9/13/2013 7:02:57 AM)
You are really missing the point.

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