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2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 2:54:07 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Multiple outlets reported that police shot two bystanders in Times Square on Saturday night while trying to control an unstable pedestrian.

CBS Local reported that police were "trying to corral an emotionally disturbed man who was moving in and out of traffic" around 42nd Street and 8th Avenue when they opened fire.

The New York Daily News reports that the two unintended victims were a 35-year-old woman and a 54-year old woman.

According to CBS, both victims suffered "graze wounds."

Kerri Ann Nesbeth, who identified herself as a witness, tweeted a photo of the scene:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/15/times-square-shooting_n_3928601.html

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 4:56:54 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		More on that story.

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 5:16:30 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		This isn`t aimed at anyone, but somewhat proves my point on another thread. In this case, just as in a previous case in New York, passers by were hit despite the fact the officers doing the shooting were trained in the use of firearms. Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe.

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 5:55:31 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Multiple outlets reported that police shot two bystanders in Times Square on Saturday night while trying to control an unstable pedestrian.

Well, at least they're getting better...

NYPD Gunfire Wounds 9 Bystanders in Empire State Shootout

All nine people wounded in an incident when a man gunned down an aquaintance outside the Empire State Building and then was killed by cops were hit by police gunfire, New York Police Department Commissioner Raymond Kelly confirmed today.

K.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 6:07:00 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

This isn`t aimed at anyone, but somewhat proves my point on another thread. In this case, just as in a previous case in New York, passers by were hit despite the fact the officers doing the shooting were trained in the use of firearms. Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe.

Heh. You can't post a case of an armed citizen who injured innocents while trying stop a crime in progress, but you'll jump at any opportunity to deliver a sermonette about how much safer we are to call these cockups instead. Classic, just classic.

K.

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 6:13:41 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

This isn`t aimed at anyone, but somewhat proves my point on another thread. In this case, just as in a previous case in New York, passers by were hit despite the fact the officers doing the shooting were trained in the use of firearms. Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe.



Are you aware that most police hardly spend any time at the range? Please note, I said most... not all. Many departments simply have not the funds for cops to continually spend ammo down range. Many cops simply will not finance their own ammo. It's not cheap. Even here where I am, small town, the cops I talk with hardly get to the range.

Now, you do have a point. The people who best should be carrying you see at the range. Most especially i.e. the IPSIC shooters. The devoted shooters.

No matter one's age, to many people stay at the novice level. That applies to cops and not-cops. It's akin to forever being a teenager behind the wheel. There is a greater chance of error. Of course no one is ever 100% safe. Not driving, flying, or even snow skiing. One isn't even 100% safe in their home which is one reason we have i.e. fire extinguishers.

Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe. That is ludicrous to even say as it's factually true for all of one's life in every circumstance.

In the news story here I sense the cops simply over-reacted to what their minds said... GUN! He didn't have a gun. This is an issue that I think needs to be addressed beyond that of marksmanship.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 6:29:51 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Are you aware that most police hardly spend any time at the range?

As we're on the theme, that reminds of an incident in Texas where some mentally disturbed guy went ballistic and started shooting people. The first cop to arrive on the scene ended up pinned down helpless behind his car, and things weren't looking good. But then, well, you can guess the rest. Some "jackass American gun-nut" with a pistol put a couple in the shooter from a range of fifty yards! Ahem.

K.

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 6:37:09 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Are you aware that most police hardly spend any time at the range?

As we're on the theme, that reminds of an incident in Texas where some mentally disturbed guy went ballistic and started shooting people. The first cop to arrive on the scene ended up pinned down helpless behind his car, and things weren't looking good. But then, well, you can guess the rest. Some "jackass American gun-nut" with a pistol put a couple in the shooter from a range of fifty yards! Ahem.

K.



I shot some IPSIC style shoots years ago. We'd have to move from station to station, each station being a firing zone. One foot had to be in the zone for the shot to count. Speed was a factor in one's score. One guy never stopped, was always in motion, getting his shot off as he moved across the zone. He was damn good.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 6:42:29 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Are you aware that most police hardly spend any time at the range?

As we're on the theme, that reminds of an incident in Texas where some mentally disturbed guy went ballistic and started shooting people. The first cop to arrive on the scene ended up pinned down helpless behind his car, and things weren't looking good. But then, well, you can guess the rest. Some "jackass American gun-nut" with a pistol put a couple in the shooter from a range of fifty yards! Ahem.

K.

I remember the incident but I believe the range was greater, just a minor point.
I haven't been able to find the link but I understand there is a recent study that shows that cops are better than twice as likely (as percentage of shooting incidents) as civilians to shoot innocent bystanders.

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 7:20:21 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
This isn`t aimed at anyone, but somewhat proves my point on another thread. In this case, just as in a previous case in New York, passers by were hit despite the fact the officers doing the shooting were trained in the use of firearms. Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe.

Are you aware that most police hardly spend any time at the range? Please note, I said most... not all. Many departments simply have not the funds for cops to continually spend ammo down range. Many cops simply will not finance their own ammo. It's not cheap. Even here where I am, small town, the cops I talk with hardly get to the range.
Now, you do have a point. The people who best should be carrying you see at the range. Most especially i.e. the IPSIC shooters. The devoted shooters.
No matter one's age, to many people stay at the novice level. That applies to cops and not-cops. It's akin to forever being a teenager behind the wheel. There is a greater chance of error. Of course no one is ever 100% safe. Not driving, flying, or even snow skiing. One isn't even 100% safe in their home which is one reason we have i.e. fire extinguishers.
Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe. That is ludicrous to even say as it's factually true for all of one's life in every circumstance.
In the news story here I sense the cops simply over-reacted to what their minds said... GUN! He didn't have a gun. This is an issue that I think needs to be addressed beyond that of marksmanship.


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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 7:27:09 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I'm trying to figure out how cops shooting random people is even news. I, myself, do not pin that on guns at all. I pin that on "thugs with badges".

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 7:30:26 AM   
tommonymous


Posts: 404
Joined: 1/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe.



No one is 100% safe regardless of the state of any bullets in their vicinity.

People get run into by impaired, inattentive, or just plain bad drivers, get heavy shit dropped on them, have aneurisms, strokes, and heart attacks, contract fatal diseases, get bitten by ferocious or poisonous animals, etc, etc, etc. The thing about life is, despite our best efforts, it's pretty tenuous.

EDIT: And that's just the chance bullshit that'll ruin your day. Don't get me started on the malicious stuff.

Also, looks like I've joined the chorus line here. But, I'll leave the post up to proclaim my, uh, um, well you know!

< Message edited by tommonymous -- 9/15/2013 7:34:59 AM >

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 7:40:21 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'm trying to figure out how cops shooting random people is even news. I, myself, do not pin that on guns at all. I pin that on "thugs with badges".

I didnt make it about guns... at 5am this morning, it was "news"

regarding the study stating cops shoot more civillians than civillians do, I would like to see the actual statistics, comparing how many times civilians shoot perps compared to cops, to get some kind of yanno "balance" LMAO


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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 7:42:47 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'm trying to figure out how cops shooting random people is even news. I, myself, do not pin that on guns at all. I pin that on "thugs with badges".

It bears observing, however, that these incidents are much more common than cases of CCW permit-holders shooting random people, despite facile characterizations of the latter as dangerous gun-nuts and the former as trained responders.

An unarmed man who may have been looking for help after a vehicle wreck was shot and killed by a police officer Saturday as he ran toward him, police said. ~Source

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/15/2013 7:44:49 AM >

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 8:03:19 AM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I pin that on "thugs with badges".



This

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 9:06:59 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		FR

Unarmed man shot by police.

The man was believed seeking help after an accident. The officer has been charged with involuntary manslaughter.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 4:09:08 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

This isn`t aimed at anyone, but somewhat proves my point on another thread. In this case, just as in a previous case in New York, passers by were hit despite the fact the officers doing the shooting were trained in the use of firearms. Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe.

Heh. You can't post a case of an armed citizen who injured innocents while trying stop a crime in progress, but you'll jump at any opportunity to deliver a sermonette about how much safer we are to call these cockups instead. Classic, just classic.

K.


I havent looked for such a case, I didnt look for this one either, nor did I look for the previous NY case. My point here was clear enough for anyone not wishing to use it as a thinly veiled attack. To use your quote, your making shit up again.

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 4:17:30 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

This isn`t aimed at anyone, but somewhat proves my point on another thread. In this case, just as in a previous case in New York, passers by were hit despite the fact the officers doing the shooting were trained in the use of firearms. Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe.



Are you aware that most police hardly spend any time at the range? Please note, I said most... not all. Many departments simply have not the funds for cops to continually spend ammo down range. Many cops simply will not finance their own ammo. It's not cheap. Even here where I am, small town, the cops I talk with hardly get to the range.

Now, you do have a point. The people who best should be carrying you see at the range. Most especially i.e. the IPSIC shooters. The devoted shooters.

No matter one's age, to many people stay at the novice level. That applies to cops and not-cops. It's akin to forever being a teenager behind the wheel. There is a greater chance of error. Of course no one is ever 100% safe. Not driving, flying, or even snow skiing. One isn't even 100% safe in their home which is one reason we have i.e. fire extinguishers.

Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe. That is ludicrous to even say as it's factually true for all of one's life in every circumstance.

In the news story here I sense the cops simply over-reacted to what their minds said... GUN! He didn't have a gun. This is an issue that I think needs to be addressed beyond that of marksmanship.


I get the part thats bolded, but some people feel if more people had guns less people would get shoot. I didnt think I needed to elaborate but obvious I do.

The idea stated in this thread that everyone with a gun spends more time at the range than police officers, isnt true, some will and some wont. Many people have a gun for safety, do a quick course in how to use it, and thats it. My notion that officers are trained in the use of firearms is true though, and if they dont get the required time to practice, thats just stupidity.

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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 5:22:14 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The idea stated in this thread that everyone with a gun spends more time at the range than police officers, isnt true, some will and some wont. Many people have a gun for safety, do a quick course in how to use it, and thats it. My notion that officers are trained in the use of firearms is true though, and if they dont get the required time to practice, thats just stupidity.



I get what you are trying to say, but you sure as hell contradict yourself a lot. NO, not everyone spends more time than cops training. Some spend even less and cops are notorious for low range time.

I agree it's stupid if cops do not get enough range time. They don't.




< Message edited by Yachtie -- 9/15/2013 5:24:30 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: 2 Bystanders Reported Shot By Police - 9/15/2013 8:31:21 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

This isn`t aimed at anyone, but somewhat proves my point on another thread. In this case, just as in a previous case in New York, passers by were hit despite the fact the officers doing the shooting were trained in the use of firearms. Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe.



Are you aware that most police hardly spend any time at the range? Please note, I said most... not all. Many departments simply have not the funds for cops to continually spend ammo down range. Many cops simply will not finance their own ammo. It's not cheap. Even here where I am, small town, the cops I talk with hardly get to the range.

Now, you do have a point. The people who best should be carrying you see at the range. Most especially i.e. the IPSIC shooters. The devoted shooters.

No matter one's age, to many people stay at the novice level. That applies to cops and not-cops. It's akin to forever being a teenager behind the wheel. There is a greater chance of error. Of course no one is ever 100% safe. Not driving, flying, or even snow skiing. One isn't even 100% safe in their home which is one reason we have i.e. fire extinguishers.

Once bullets start flying about, no one is 100% safe. That is ludicrous to even say as it's factually true for all of one's life in every circumstance.

In the news story here I sense the cops simply over-reacted to what their minds said... GUN! He didn't have a gun. This is an issue that I think needs to be addressed beyond that of marksmanship.

I'm a member of a gun club that a local PD rents for its' officer's training. While most of the members of that department are competent enough with their sidearms, there are a couple who should be restricted to desk duty for the rest of their careers. I've know cops personally, and a lot of them regard their pistol as just another piece of crap they have to carry. Many only fired their weapons once or twice a year to maintain qualification. Not proficiency. A lot of LEOs have this attitude, and when something happens, you get results like this.

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