RE: Punishing Master?

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PeggyO -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/22/2013 2:22:30 PM)
For me, someone simply saying that they acknowledge they were wrong is a good start, but not necessarily enough. It also has to do with why the mistake occurred in the first place. Was it something that isn't likely to happen again, or is it something that is stemming from an underlying character flaw that will bubble to the surface again unless that flaw is acknowledged and addressed? And in a TPE situation, if it's something where it was a unilateral decision where there was disagreement by others involved, will the decision maker listen more closely the next time to advice from others, or will they continue with unilateral decision making regardless of the views of those directly impacted by the decision. It's kind of like breaking a plate - if a plate gets broken once, it's a mistake and one tries to be more careful next time. If one frequently breaks plates, for whatever reason, perhaps the person should not be handling plates.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/22/2013 10:57:18 PM)
Was there something else obvious to point out? quote: ORIGINAL: petitespot Sometimes even when one takes full responsibility for their mistake and goes through incredible lengths to change themselves to ensure it never happens again, the damage is done, the other can't forgive or forget and the relationship dies. All due to an unintentional mistake. That is the real world.

SunTzuSwe -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/23/2013 3:05:19 AM)
As a dom you're obliged to own up to your mistakes and failure to do so will result in loss of respect. Once the respect is gone what else is there? If you want that respect back you have to earn it.

sexyred1 -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/23/2013 11:43:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I was in my late 20's and decided to try a full TPE relationship. I found that it was not much different than how I looked at and handled my relationships anyway. I thought that if the female involved knew what the relationship was going to be that it would make things so much better. That relationship failed, I made many of the same mistakes that I had in previous relationships. The new one I made was that I did something that emotionally damaged the girl whom I was supposed to be the master of. It was downright sobering, and I went into a lengthy period of introspection and realized I had been doing circles because I had been refusing to accept responsibility. I made a determination then that part of my personal ethics would always be to accept responsibility, and be accountability for what I am supposed to do. Only then can we learn from our mistakes and grow. I also did a lot of reading into it at that time and learned many people do not accept responsibility because denial is used so they dodge it and their ego is not damaged. Most have a fragile ego or issues with their self esteem that will not allow them to. Not sure if it is for the same reason with your former, but thought I would add my anecdote from a man that used to blame others and other things, rather than accept responsibility. quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 It is nice to read about Doms who take ownership over their fuck ups. After being with someone for so long that never once admitted anything and always tried to blame me or anything that would let him avoid any self analysis, this has risen to the top of things desired in a man. Thanks for that. In your case, you learned and grew. In his case, he does not want to or is incapable of learning and thus, will never grow up and never have a successful relationship. He ruined the only good one he had with me and I was never so patient as I was with him. I learned the hard way that I cannot fix someone or help someone who refuses to listen.

Kana -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/23/2013 1:42:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge Taking ownership over your mistakes is essential. Anyone can play the blame game, but it takes guts to admit that you are wrong. This is why I carry "My Fault" insurance. I have no problem whatsoever admitting a mistake, error, disaster, or place where I have gone astray. I feel no shame for making mistakes, but that is not to say that I am not humbled, or embarrassed when I make them. During my life I have had to take good, hard looks at myself and admit devastating truths about my own character defects and places where I have made some seriously bad decisions. I have worked damn hard on correcting my mistakes and to learn how not to make the same one again. When I was younger, I had this tendency to speak my mind before filtering it through the question, "Is this the right thing to say, in this manner?" I got tired of the taste of my foot in my mouth so I changed this. I still speak my mind, but I have a process that I go through mentally to temper what I say for clarity and tact. This sometimes frustrated people that I talk with because I sometimes pause for long periods of time before I say something, but when it finally comes out of my mouth, it usually is something that I want to say and not something that I will instantly regret. This is just one example of what I have learned from previous mistakes. So, I make mistakes. I know this shocks people, but there it is. Well, due to your history, you're just mega-fucked here. You can make amends, set things right, or die. Some effing choice, eh :-) And your gal, she'll know that and oh man,I can see the right gal getting so much joy out of that lil dom snaring conundrum

ResidentSadist -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/23/2013 5:45:20 PM)
FR~ Yes, obviously there is always the choice to end the relationship. In my house, slaves have a voice and means to seek recompense when continuing the relationship is more important than the problem at hand. We hold court and yes, Master can be taken to court. If the matter can't be resolved within the house, it is taken to our friends or peers, with a promise that either Master or slave will consider the matter closed when court prescribes a suitable recompense.

TigressLily -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/23/2013 7:51:34 PM)
^Wow^ I have to say I'm impressed. A few weeks ago I was reading some material having to do with human nature, one of my favorite fields. Over-simplification, but besides subcategories, there are 4 categories of lovers according to this template: o The Giving Dominant (Dom-G) o The Receiving Dominant (Dom-R) o The Giving Submissive (Sub-G) o The Receiving Submissive (Sub-R) I have a self-professed masochistic lesbian friend who is seeking a "Kind" Sadist. Admittedly, I'm no expert on this, however, there must be a direct correlation between discipline/punishment styles and which overall type of D/s modality one operates under. RS, I have no clue whether you would fall under the umbrella of a Kind Sadist--how you run your household does fall along the lines of a Giving Dominant. _____________________________ * * * Not A Fetish/Kink Delivery System * * *

JeffBC -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/23/2013 8:40:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeggyO For me, someone simply saying that they acknowledge they were wrong is a good start, but not necessarily enough. For me, the acknowledgement phase isn't even really the start. It's more like "getting ready to start". Actually taking responsibility for an error means fixing the damned thing as far as I'm concerned. For some particularly bad mistakes of mine I've been known to sit down for hours and detail on paper every single person this error affected and specifically how and then come up with action plans to make it right. In such cases I'll get a lot of feedback from people trying to make sure I haven't missed some angle. Then it's time to get busy. Sometimes it takes months or years. Sometimes there is no payoff at the end of that effort other than knowing "I did what I could."

ResidentSadist -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/23/2013 9:16:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TigressLily ^Wow^ I have to say I'm impressed. A few weeks ago I was reading some material having to do with human nature, one of my favorite fields. Over-simplification, but besides subcategories, there are 4 categories of lovers according to this template: o The Giving Dominant (Dom-G) o The Receiving Dominant (Dom-R) o The Giving Submissive (Sub-G) o The Receiving Submissive (Sub-R) I have a self-professed masochistic lesbian friend who is seeking a "Kind" Sadist. Admittedly, I'm no expert on this, however, there must be a direct correlation between discipline/punishment styles and which overall type of D/s modality one operates under. RS, I have no clue whether you would fall under the umbrella of a Kind Sadist--how you run your household does fall along the lines of a Giving Dominant. _____________________________ * * * Not A Fetish/Kink Delivery System * * * The reality of it for me is that BDSM and its protocols are relationship tools. For some, BDSM is roleplay and others it is solely an expression of sex. So none of the following applies them and they can retain the fantasy of the "infallible Master' and "you never have to say you're sorry". I feel that if both parties don't get something out of the relationship, it won't last. So one of the voices my slaves have (other than petitioning for court) is in the goal setting - the health, wealth, happiness and etc requirements. Those goals are the framework by which I lead the family. As leader, I have absolute rule, but I believe that no one is infallible . . . not even me. So holding court is a good way to call my attention to mistakes. Using a collective's judgement is a good way to find recompense for mistakes or when two people can't see eye to eye and resolve it on their own. As far as discipline goes, I choose intelligent partners and although I believe in corporal punishment, it really isn't needed. So what does happen is someone hurts someone else unintentionally. Recompense is prescribed to mend the hurt. And with sincere and thoughtful recompense, it does mend any wounds. Your partner never means to hurt you on purpose (unless you have a very bad partner). So mending the emotional wounds you cause keeps everyone happy. I will never be so high and lofty that I do not care about fixing the mistakes I make or healing the unintentional wounds I cause. My mother was an artist and she said, "everyone makes mistakes. The mark of a professional is recognizing those mistakes and fixing them." I feel the same is true for relationship skills.

samdarella -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/24/2013 1:16:00 PM)
quote: I have a self-professed masochistic lesbian friend who is seeking a "Kind" Sadist. Admittedly, I'm no expert on this, however, there must be a direct correlation between discipline/punishment styles and which overall type of D/s modality one operates under. RS, I have no clue whether you would fall under the umbrella of a Kind Sadist--how you run your household does fall along the lines of a Giving Dominant. Master is indeed a Kind Sadist. He is the perfect combination that i thought it would be next to impossible for me to find. And He was only an hour away. I am not sure of how your categories are defined, but Master is both a very giving Dominant and really good at receiving service also. Master gives me more credit than i deserve. I have needed maybe not so much punishment, but we will call it guidance, a few times. He has not used corporal punishment because my mistakes have not been huge. Instead He reprimanded me and made me think heavily about how i behaved. Almost every time i have wound up in tears on my knees kissing His feet and apologizing. I don't do this to avoid punishment, i do it because i feel it in my core. I am truly sorry and need to express it with more than just words. While seemingly rare, i do know of a few Kind Sadists. I used to visit a couple every week for two years that were both Kind Sadists. Their style of punishment was different than Master's. They did use corporal punishment, even on a masochist such as me, because they knew that there was no way i could enjoy the pain that i knew was meant as punishment. There was also no warm up and never failed to make me cry. Before the physical punishment, the reasons were always discussed. There was reassurance that i was still loved after. And then the matter was done and over, never to be brought up again. Unless i made the same mistake again. Which i didn't. While i have not had personal experiences with some others, i do know them to also be Kind Sadists. Hmmm, maybe its not so rare after all. At least not in real life. The ones i know are very confidant in their dominance and have nothing to prove, so they can afford to be kind.

Kana -> RE: Punishing Master? (9/24/2013 1:56:43 PM)
Yeah-I would qualify as a KS too. In most areas in life, I'm a really friendly extroverted cat, try to treat people with dignity and respect. It's only within the boundaries of a bound interaction that my sadism really comes out. Actually, wait, that's a lie. I have this bizarre tendency to brutal honesty coupled with a tongue like a hedgeclipper, I can be a cruel bastard when I wanna be or when I think the situation demands it (Oooh,the mouse gets all wonky when I do that, starts looking for a mousehole to bolt into). But I likely run at about 80/20 Kind/Cruel ratio.

DrMaster4U2 -> RE: Punishing Master? (10/14/2013 3:35:44 AM)
Sounds like everyone here is on a (spiritual?) path...or whatever you want to call it. Fact is - if you learn from your mistakes - instead of the many other options - you are on a path toward higher awareness. That alone is a good start as self-mastery - and should be recognized as such. The speed with which a dominant learns may not be the speed with which a submissive is comfortable. If then, the submissive is constantly forced to top from the bottom, to make corrections to the ships' rudder and/or to remind the dominant that leading is the job of the dominant - there is a fundamental road block. If leadership is not an important part of the couple's definition in the LT BDSM relationship - where else do we start? Now we can start arguing about the definition of a "leader". "LTR", "spiritual", "path", "topping from the bottom", etc. lol DrMaster

DrMaster4U2 -> RE: Punishing Master? (10/14/2013 3:52:15 AM)
Love it. Well said RS. "Court holding" is a great idea. DrMaster "the Mind of the Master is first master of his mind"

Dyfrynt -> RE: Punishing Master? (10/29/2013 6:13:30 PM)
Thank you all for the responses. Hated to start this thread and run, but life gets that way some times. For those who stated that they owned up to their mistakes as Dominant, that is how it should be handled, of course. My question was more for the Dominant who was not being responsible; what options did the submissive have aside from leaving. Some of the ideas that came up here were illuminating.

Focus50 -> RE: Punishing Master? (10/30/2013 3:01:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dyfrynt My question was more for the Dominant who was not being responsible; what options did the submissive have aside from leaving. You got a bit of that? Replies from openly irresponsible dominants, I mean? [:-] Sigh, guess I'm gonna hafta go back and read through this semi-necro thread again.... lol Focus.

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