The rise and fall of the binary. (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 3:33:00 AM)

Life was simple when I was a child. Men were men, women were women. They were all straight.

Later I found out that there were gay people.

Still later I discovered D/s. In a binary way - there were Doms and subs.

Now, every label is getting muddied up. I still can't "get" the concept of switch down, just because it makes things so murky. A switch is someone who is 50% Dom/me and 50% sub. Or 20% Dom/me and 80% sub. Or 99% Dom/me and 1% sub. Hell, if you told me the percentages don't need to add up to 1, I'd almost believe you. To me, there's a huge difference between an 99 D 1% s, and a 50-50. I also dislike the fact that there is no differentiation between someone who has a set role as a Dom/me or a sub and is WILLING to switch occasionally, and someone who NEEDS to experience both sides.

The concept of bi is the same as switch - someone who does not fit in the binary. Whether they're 50-50 straight/gay, or 90% one and 10% the other, they're bi. The good thing about bi-ness is that there's a term "bi-curious" that indicates that bi-ness is not a need, but simply an interest. If there were terms sub-curious and Dom/me-curious, that would be a wonderful thing.

Trans can mean different things too. – transgender is a messy term which addresses both crossdressers and transvestites (CDs/TVs), which are people who dress as the opposite genders for a temporary sexual charge and then go back to their normal gender; and transsexuals, which are people that get no sexual gratification, but simply want to change their born body gender to align with the gender in their brain. Many people confuse them. To make matters more confusing, TSs usually start off crossdressing, so there’s no simple binary. TSs frequently use the term “trans” for TSs only, making things murkier.

Poly is a mess. By its very nature, it results in all kinds of odd permutations. The only thing you can clearly say about it is that it's not monogamous. But the relationships themselves are so fluid - it can involve sex only (polyfuckery), romance, play without either, etc. Of course, the different relationships within poly can be different as well - Tasha and I play with others but sleep only with each other.

Then there's genderfluid. That can mean someone who's male at times and female at times. Or someone who lives 24/7 in a state that's neither of the two. OR a combination. Anything aside from fitting neatly into an M or F box.

There are also people who define themselves very simply, and then refuse to stay in that box. I know one woman who is a straight submissive. Except that she switches. And that she played with one woman. And I know another woman who is a straight mono submissive, who ended up attracted to a couple.

Don't mind me. I'm just an engineer, wishing that people were easier to define.






TigressLily -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 4:57:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

The concept of bi is the same as switch - someone who does not fit in the binary. . . . The good thing about bi-ness is that there's a term "bi-curious" that indicates that bi-ness is not a need, but simply an interest. If there were terms sub-curious and Dom/me-curious, that would be a wonderful thing.


A girlfriend of mine told me when she signed up on Ashley-Madison (while she was still negotiating her separation papers), there were checkbox categories for Domination-curious & Submission-curious, other than Dominant/Master & Submissive/Slave. The problem was, it confused around half the people who had checked off either "curious" category--they'd selected the wrong one! Those who were curious about Domination and those who were curious about Submission frequently got them mixed up. This was more confusing for the "Submission-curious" category. A vanilla who wanted to roleplay at being sexually Dominant might check this off because he was curious about finding a sexually submissive partner. A vanilla who wanted to roleplay at being sexually submissive might accidentally check off "Domination-curious" if he was curious about finding a sexually Dominant partner. There was no middle ground or alternating roleplay option for switches. Talk about heaping uncertainty upon . . . confusion.

_____________________________

* * * Not A Fetish/Kink Delivery System * * *



LadyPact -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 7:31:32 AM)

Steven, I really enjoyed this piece. I know how you feel, too. It takes actual effort to try to learn to understand how different people identify and I ask most folks to be patient with Me. I still feel awkward when I have to ask the pronoun question. (As in, do you prefer male or female pronouns when dealing with a specific individual.)

I know transgender is considered by some to be a messy term. I still consider it to be a safe one to use though and it allows Me not to screw up.

The good thing is, folks younger than us have a better advantage. The world doesn't really look the same as it probably seemed when we were younger, so the coming generations won't be as clunky with these things as we might be.



FelineRanger -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 7:46:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Don't mind me. I'm just an engineer, wishing that people were easier to define.




Therein lies the problem. When you deal with anything remotely in that area, things are carefully and minutely defined from materials to tolerances to simple things like length and width. That perspective makes it difficult to grasp something like the human animal, which is inherently fluid and subject to constant change.



chatterbox24 -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 9:12:01 AM)

You man
Me woman


Cook me dinner
Okay Sir

Get naked
Okay Sir

Clean the house
Okay Sir

How was your day?
How was your day?

That is where I am. I need simple. Simpler I get the more tolerant and pleasant I am. Always living in the gray area, was to complicated for me. Finally something is clear. [:D]





TNDommeK -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 10:02:17 AM)

I so agree, DS. I get so infused with the "trans" identities.
I don't wanna offend or look dumb, but until I ask, I am dumb to the fact of knowing.

There are so many variations of trans words. I remember you saying, identify them with which ever sex they are putting out. But then, what if they are looking like both? Or what if that offends. I still don't get trans fluid.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 11:58:38 AM)

Yes, many more categories or spectrums to deal with. But I, personally, think that this is all a good thing. The simple male-female heterosexual is too limiting for many people.

I think the most important take away from all of this is not how each of us chooses to "define/categorize" someone else, but how these categories or spectrums allow people to self-define. And given that gender and sexuality are actually complex constructs to begin with, I am all for greater complexity given that this complexity allows individuals to understand themselves better. And we should also allow for the fact that how people self-define can, and does, change over time (this is true whether we are dealing with either gender or sexuality).

How much better it is for young people to grow up in a world where gender and sexuality are not neatly packaged into small boxes. [sm=hippie.gif]



Bstardsbitch1 -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 12:53:26 PM)

There is also the
Gender queer
Gender fluid
A Sexual
[sm=dunno.gif]



kdsub -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 1:28:57 PM)

Just me but I think designations or classifications have only one purpose....to help one find someone that may be interested in them. Otherwise when I know what I want at any one time I find the nearest common classification that comes as close as possible and use it to express to others what I am or am looking for.

Once I meet someone the real negotiations start simply by getting to know them...all classifications are off and it is just me...as is.

So my bottom line classification is "AS IS"

Butch




seekingreality -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 1:31:25 PM)

I don't get worked up about labels. They can be useful, in a personal-ads sense, to help me find people who I am obviously not compatible with -- like a lesbian sub. Beyond that, who cares -- even if someone chooses to give themselves a simple label that doesn't mean they will end up being any less complicated or diverse than someone who chooses a more complex label.



lthrpup -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 7:53:01 PM)

[sm=dunno.gif]



NuevaVida -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 8:14:44 PM)

I grew up with straight black and white, too.

As I got older, I resisted any notion that it was OK to NOT be black and white.

As I grew wiser, I accepted that the world is full of all kinds of people, and everyone is just making their way through life trying to be happy. And I love that. I love that there are so many different "categories" of people, and how expanded my views have become over time.

It's NOT simple. And that's awesome.



SoulAlloy -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/19/2013 11:59:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I grew up with straight black and white, too.

As I got older, I resisted any notion that it was OK to NOT be black and white.

As I grew wiser, I accepted that the world is full of all kinds of people, and everyone is just making their way through life trying to be happy. And I love that. I love that there are so many different "categories" of people, and how expanded my views have become over time.

It's NOT simple. And that's awesome.


This, so much this :)



metamorfosis -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/20/2013 12:52:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Don't mind me. I'm just an engineer, wishing that people were easier to define.


Don't ask me. I'm still puzzling over the fact that people aren't machines.



HeidiAnn -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/20/2013 2:17:04 AM)

i too have grown in a black and white world (man/woman, gay/straight), distressed about why i felt like i did not belong to that world. When i was an adolescent i started to learn that there are these shades of gray, though at the time even those were set colors (gay/straight/bi, mono/poly/open, ts/tv/cd/tg). With years i started to understand that most people do not fit these boxes, whether they be black, white or gray boxes. There are more colors everywhere, in each person. Diversity, adaptation, mutation - they seem to be fundamental parts of the evolution of organic life. Facts of nature. Why would something like gender, sex or sexuality be set in stone then or be something that could be universally defined by narrow categories?

Today i think that those boxes can be useful tools in trying to communicate your feelings and thoughts to others, but they can be harmful too if you try to fit yourself in one when you can't. When i started to alter my body with medication and surgeries, the only way to get treatments was to fit the "transsexual" - box (a person who identifies as belonging to the opposite sex/gender they were born to). i too claimed to be one, said the things the doctors needed to hear, but only to get the treatments i felt i needed. Then i stopped, told the doctors that i need no more and that i'm done. Unfortunately i know people who claimed to be transsexual because they too needed certain treatments, and ended up getting all the treatments that came with the title and later regretted it. i can't even imagine what it feels like to live with such regret every day. Boxes can hurt you.

The world is changing into a better place with the fall of the binary, i think. When people have the freedom to be themselves, they feel less pressure to try to adapt to boxes that do not fit them (as an crude example for instance don't end up trying to play a straight woman's role when they are dying to live as a man inside). i think it ultimately benefits everyone, if people have freedom and room to be true to themselves.



DarkSteven -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/20/2013 5:24:15 AM)

Actually, HeidiAnn, many transpeople are IMO part of the binary too. They belong at one end and are initially physically at the other, and simply use surgery and hormones to transition from one to the other. So they're off the binary pre-transition, and back on afterward, if that makes sense.

I do know one that had the hormones and surgery to change from M to F. She then decided that she was genderfluid and defines herself off the binary altogether. And I know another who was born male and sometimes presents as male and sometimes as female. As I understand it, this person (I wish there was an acceptable gender-neutral pronoun - using "it" would be an insult) has never had surgery or hormones.



HeidiAnn -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/20/2013 5:55:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Actually, HeidiAnn, many transpeople are IMO part of the binary too. They belong at one end and are initially physically at the other, and simply use surgery and hormones to transition from one to the other. So they're off the binary pre-transition, and back on afterward, if that makes sense.


Yes, there are transpeople who are very binary too, i did not mean to imply that there aren't. i merely meant that not all transpeople are transsexual. i too know many people, who have transitioned from one sex/gender to the another and feel very comfortable where they are. :) There definitely is a need for full transition treatments, but it just should not be the only path to choose, in my opinion. Some people might feel pressured to either take all or get nothing (in which both scenarios can be very unwanted).

From the binary perspective transsexualism is propably the easiest to accept - it upholds the idea that there are two sexes/genders and people who need treatment transition from one to the other. i can on some level understand why in many countries it is the only recognized treatment-path. But that does not remove the fact that there are a lot of people whose gender-identity is something other than male/female. And those people struggle to find their place in this world aswell.



chatterbox24 -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/20/2013 6:03:07 AM)

I really cant imagine the confusion and stigma to look in the mirror and see a man, but feel like a woman inside. That has to be one of the biggest internal struggles a person can face.
I was born a straight woman, and it was hard enough trying to figure how who I was as a woman, and having a woman stare back at me. All the usual questions, who am I? why does this happen? What am I doing wrong? How can I make things better? Whats next? Why Why why when when when. I was very addicted to reasoning too, trying to rationalize every situation into tiny segments that drove me crazy. Some things just cant be explained. When I just accepted things and quit questioning them, it was just such a big relief and brought more peace.
There if no greater gift in the world to know who you are, whether your in the black and white category, or the more unusual category. Its great to be understood and accepted, but strength comes when it doesn't matter what the judgers say, its what you say to yourself. Its how you react to the situation. No one has the right to try to steal your power, but they will try, some people. Just don't let them its that simple. DO what you need to do for yourself to be you, and opinions are nothing. They really aren't. So much joy in accepting who you are, whether your what others call the gray area or not. Most people who are very judgemental, have their own problems, and rattle someone elses cage, because basically, it makes them feel more powerful temporary, to THINK YOU HAVE A PROBLEM instead of taking a look into their own closet. They are not right, they just think they are.
I am all about people finding who they are, and finding joy in who they are and celebrating that. We all have bad days, but its how quickly we recover from them too. Every day is a new beginning with new hope.
Life can be pretty complicated but the same simple principles can be practiced in all things, no matter gender, or social status.



JeffBC -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/20/2013 7:24:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Don't mind me. I'm just an engineer, wishing that people were easier to define.

*laughs* As I'm sure you can imagine I deeply sympathize. But in this case I have to point out it's not your engineer's mind that's failing you. It's the bad set of starting assumptions. You bought into the whole "magical D/s" gene theory which leads to confusion about switches. The axiom your starting with fails to reflect reality. Endless confusion follows. Ditto with the other things.

It's not that humans are inexplicable. It's that they are very much not binary. I actually revel in the complexity. It's one of the few places that really taxes my brain. That word "chemistry" when applied to human courtship is about the only area in my entire life that I refuse to make predictions because it's more complex than any other topic I can name.

I like that.



HarryVanWinkle -> RE: The rise and fall of the binary. (9/20/2013 12:58:33 PM)

quote:

Don't mind me. I'm just an engineer, wishing that people were easier to define.


Generally speaking, the more easily people are defined, the less interesting they are.



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