Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations

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DomKen -> Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 10:05:12 AM)
https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20130917-a-jewel-at-the-heart-of-quantum-physics/ This, if it holds up, could be a complete revolution in quantum theory. Previously impossible to model interactions could be done in mere minutes.

TNDommeK -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 10:10:00 AM)
Am I the only nerd who found this totally awesome?

MasterCaneman -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 10:10:29 AM)
All I want to know is when do we get the holodecks? And transporters would be cool too. Definitely holodecks, though. Giggity. On a more serious note, what exactly does that all mean other than now the eggheads can perform experiments they couldn't before? In other words, what's the payoff, other than knowledge?

DomKen -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 10:26:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman All I want to know is when do we get the holodecks? And transporters would be cool too. Definitely holodecks, though. Giggity. On a more serious note, what exactly does that all mean other than now the eggheads can perform experiments they couldn't before? In other words, what's the payoff, other than knowledge? Immediately, nothing. In the long term it will greatly speed up and simplify modeling of quantum interactions which could lead to a unified forces theory which could lead to manipulation of gravity. Further it could bring quantum computing to the market place in years rather than decades. I learned scattering amplitudes from a mathematics stand point in college. These functions had to, at the time, model each interaction outcome individually which resulted in dozens to hundreds of pages of calculations which not even the super computers of the era could calculate in any reasonable time frame. Reducing those to a mathematical description of a multidimensional solid makes all those basic calculations nearly trivial and also opens up examining relationships and higher order interactions using fairly basic algebra.

DomKen -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 10:27:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNDommeK Am I the only nerd who found this totally awesome? I certainly did. That's why I posted it.

tommonymous -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 11:21:20 AM)
Yargh... The models be modelin' with much haste. Make ready for equatin'! Ooops, wrong thread! [:D]

kdsub -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 1:51:59 PM)
DomKen do you really understand the article? I don't... it is far beyond my understanding and makes no sense. To me this theory is like talking into two tin cans connected by a taught string and claiming to have discovered the internet. Butch

mnottertail -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 2:06:30 PM)
I understand it in the general sense. A model that might work, maybe to get the feel for it, is the wrapping function. You know, looks like a cinnamon roll. (from that we go to sines, cosines and other periodically repititious functions. Then you have this thing they talk about this nautilus (like the wrapping function) of a jewel face rather than a flat band like the one used to make the cinnamon roll. each facet of the jewel face in the band, is equivalent to one of the Feynmann diagrams (one diagram equates to one of the possible outcomes of interactions in an atomic interaction, of which there are thousands) now, as we make marks (however you want to make them on the cinnamon roll (lets say with alternating stripes of sugar and cinnamon) and as you wrap it up (looking from the end, or if you will thru it) there will be layers in which the cinnamon stripes line up exactly) that is what we are looking for, and can ignore the stripes (or facets) that do not line up, thru and thru. You can see that if I ignore the facets or stripes that dont line up (and multitudes of them will not line up) I have way way way less to count, which simplifies our problem dramatically. As I said, this is all lie, but it is a model that will work until more is explained by these guys. It is just 3rd grade conceptual for those of us who cannot do tensor calculus.

kdsub -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 2:13:25 PM)
Damn...all that made me was hungry...I knew somewhere on a basic level of the universe all pleasure is attained through sugar. Butch

mnottertail -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 2:14:36 PM)
And that was all it was designed to do, is leave you wanting.

DomKen -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 4:29:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub DomKen do you really understand the article? I don't... it is far beyond my understanding and makes no sense. To me this theory is like talking into two tin cans connected by a taught string and claiming to have discovered the internet. Butch I don't understand the physics but do understand the math. A simple way to view it is think of the solid as if it was a cut jewel. Each facet represents one possible outcome of a quantum interaction. So the equation that models that solid, any geometric shape can be represented mathematically, is the base of modeling those interactions. A 2 dimensional shape can be represented by two terms, classically called x and y. A 3 dimensional object can be done with 3. We can visualize these. higher dimensional shapes cannot be easily visualized but the mathematics holds.

MasterG2kTR -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 6:21:28 PM)
quote: Immediately, nothing. In the long term it will greatly speed up and simplify modeling of quantum interactions which could lead to a unified forces theory which could lead to manipulation of gravity. Further it could bring quantum computing to the market place in years rather than decades. I learned scattering amplitudes from a mathematics stand point in college. These functions had to, at the time, model each interaction outcome individually which resulted in dozens to hundreds of pages of calculations which not even the super computers of the era could calculate in any reasonable time frame. Reducing those to a mathematical description of a multidimensional solid makes all those basic calculations nearly trivial and also opens up examining relationships and higher order interactions using fairly basic algebra. Cool.....that means hover boards are on the horizon......[8D]

DomKen -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 6:37:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR quote: Immediately, nothing. In the long term it will greatly speed up and simplify modeling of quantum interactions which could lead to a unified forces theory which could lead to manipulation of gravity. Further it could bring quantum computing to the market place in years rather than decades. I learned scattering amplitudes from a mathematics stand point in college. These functions had to, at the time, model each interaction outcome individually which resulted in dozens to hundreds of pages of calculations which not even the super computers of the era could calculate in any reasonable time frame. Reducing those to a mathematical description of a multidimensional solid makes all those basic calculations nearly trivial and also opens up examining relationships and higher order interactions using fairly basic algebra. Cool.....that means hover boards are on the horizon......[8D] The could is a very important word in that sentence.

MasterCaneman -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/19/2013 9:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman All I want to know is when do we get the holodecks? And transporters would be cool too. Definitely holodecks, though. Giggity. On a more serious note, what exactly does that all mean other than now the eggheads can perform experiments they couldn't before? In other words, what's the payoff, other than knowledge? Immediately, nothing. In the long term it will greatly speed up and simplify modeling of quantum interactions which could lead to a unified forces theory which could lead to manipulation of gravity. Further it could bring quantum computing to the market place in years rather than decades. I learned scattering amplitudes from a mathematics stand point in college. These functions had to, at the time, model each interaction outcome individually which resulted in dozens to hundreds of pages of calculations which not even the super computers of the era could calculate in any reasonable time frame. Reducing those to a mathematical description of a multidimensional solid makes all those basic calculations nearly trivial and also opens up examining relationships and higher order interactions using fairly basic algebra. I can understand what the implications of manipulating gravity could mean. Quantum computing would be a boon, to be sure. But being a business-guy, I like to see what the numbers mean for the numbers that mean, if you know what I mean. Applications. Does this lead to SSTO, fusion, a cure for cancer? That's the problem I have with theoretical physics-I want to know what it means once they start bending metal. If they even can start bending metal.

DomKen -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/20/2013 12:35:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman All I want to know is when do we get the holodecks? And transporters would be cool too. Definitely holodecks, though. Giggity. On a more serious note, what exactly does that all mean other than now the eggheads can perform experiments they couldn't before? In other words, what's the payoff, other than knowledge? Immediately, nothing. In the long term it will greatly speed up and simplify modeling of quantum interactions which could lead to a unified forces theory which could lead to manipulation of gravity. Further it could bring quantum computing to the market place in years rather than decades. I learned scattering amplitudes from a mathematics stand point in college. These functions had to, at the time, model each interaction outcome individually which resulted in dozens to hundreds of pages of calculations which not even the super computers of the era could calculate in any reasonable time frame. Reducing those to a mathematical description of a multidimensional solid makes all those basic calculations nearly trivial and also opens up examining relationships and higher order interactions using fairly basic algebra. I can understand what the implications of manipulating gravity could mean. Quantum computing would be a boon, to be sure. But being a business-guy, I like to see what the numbers mean for the numbers that mean, if you know what I mean. Applications. Does this lead to SSTO, fusion, a cure for cancer? That's the problem I have with theoretical physics-I want to know what it means once they start bending metal. If they even can start bending metal. Sometimes it takes a while to go from theoretical to practical applications. For instance scientists knew about the semi conductor phenomena prior to the 20th century but it took until the 50's to produce the first transistor. Since then the transistor and the IC chip, based on the semiconductor as well, have transformed society. I doubt any of the guys at Bell Labs in the 50's could have predicted all of that before they got the first transistor working.

MariaB -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/20/2013 2:04:51 AM)
Mount it on a size 6.5 ring and hand it over [;)]

Aibo -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/20/2013 2:16:57 AM)
Oh that's interesting. But yes, nature do not do totally complicated things naturally. I readily admit this stuff is completely out of my league. Even so I must say that I am not that surprised that one have come up with a very smart way that simplifies the equations to a large degree. That doesn't make it any less of a touch (or a barrelful) of genius to come up with the equations. :)

MasterCaneman -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/20/2013 7:08:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Sometimes it takes a while to go from theoretical to practical applications. For instance scientists knew about the semi conductor phenomena prior to the 20th century but it took until the 50's to produce the first transistor. Since then the transistor and the IC chip, based on the semiconductor as well, have transformed society. I doubt any of the guys at Bell Labs in the 50's could have predicted all of that before they got the first transistor working. I can understand that. My question was more of a statement on the nature of business and funding. All that research costs money, because physicists tend to require that in order to continue buying comic books and going to scifi conventions in the off hours. What's needed is for someone to accurately (or semi-accurately) project what kind of technologies to expect in order to keep the juice (money) flowing. Finance types are who really run this world, sad to say, and they need to see light at the end of the tunnel in order to keep that sweet river of cash flowing.

DomKen -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/20/2013 11:14:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Sometimes it takes a while to go from theoretical to practical applications. For instance scientists knew about the semi conductor phenomena prior to the 20th century but it took until the 50's to produce the first transistor. Since then the transistor and the IC chip, based on the semiconductor as well, have transformed society. I doubt any of the guys at Bell Labs in the 50's could have predicted all of that before they got the first transistor working. I can understand that. My question was more of a statement on the nature of business and funding. All that research costs money, because physicists tend to require that in order to continue buying comic books and going to scifi conventions in the off hours. What's needed is for someone to accurately (or semi-accurately) project what kind of technologies to expect in order to keep the juice (money) flowing. Finance types are who really run this world, sad to say, and they need to see light at the end of the tunnel in order to keep that sweet river of cash flowing. That's why basic research is done almost exclusively with government funding. There really is no way to predict what uses we might derive from any particular experiment. It might result in a technological revolution and it might be a dead end.

MasterCaneman -> RE: Dramatic simplification of Quantum Theory calculations (9/20/2013 1:10:39 PM)
That's why basic research is done almost exclusively with government funding. There really is no way to predict what uses we might derive from any particular experiment. It might result in a technological revolution and it might be a dead end. And that's the problem. No company bothers to pay more than lip-service to R&D anymore because they know the government will do it for them. And while the protocol makes sense on some levels, this says to me that the research is done by dictate, rather than pure science. Perhaps I'm wrong in surmising this.

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