quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Now tell me again how banning guns will stop gun crime? I mean criminals obey the laws right?

You're absolutely right, a gun ban will not stop gun crime.

An enforced and policed gun ban, certainly would - Because there would be no guns. That one's not very complicated.

The complication is that if a proposed ban cannot be enforced, then it's a pointless exercise.

Because criminals are nice people if you take away the guns.
And it would only mean living in a police state.

I'm at a loss - I have no fucking clue how you could have inferred that from my post. <shrugs>

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Simply laughable

You think the constitution and 'your rights' are irrevocable because they are your 'rights'??

It isn't set in stone ya know.
It was written by men in power and can be revoked by men in power. Simples.

The Greeks had a constitution, the new powers just ripped it up and wrote a new one 2 years ago.
Now they are rewriting yet another one.
It just proves that any constitution written by men can be unwritten to something else.
Ours was a similar situation. The country was awash with guns - just like the US is today.
The powers that be just rewrote part of our 'rights' and now we don't have such a problem.

So it can be done - if there is enough willpower at the top to want it.
But you guys just keep wallowing in your gun-owning regime and play ostrich.
One day it will come.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue to see mass shootings in the US and just roll our eyes at the stupidity.
And you wonder why the rest of the world is less than sympathetic to your gun crimes??
Sheeesh. It doesn't take much to work that one out!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You are also talking bollocks about the IRA and how they become armed, doesnt World War One ring any fucking bells in that brain of yours, Great Britian was awash with guns. Many thousands of Catholics were actually fighting for the King. The IRB, forerunners to the IRA, obtained their money via donations from the US and arms then purchased from Germany.


Doesn't Germany ring a bell in that fucking brain of yours, they were the enemy, and those guns were not used to fight for the king.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Now tell me again how banning guns will stop gun crime? I mean criminals obey the laws right?

You're absolutely right, a gun ban will not stop gun crime.

An enforced and policed gun ban, certainly would - Because there would be no guns. That one's not very complicated.

The complication is that if a proposed ban cannot be enforced, then it's a pointless exercise.

Because criminals are nice people if you take away the guns.
And it would only mean living in a police state.

I'm at a loss - I have no fucking clue how you could have inferred that from my post. <shrugs>

First you said a gun ban would stop crime not just gun crime but crime.
And the only way to end all crime would be to install a police state where the government had total control ala 1984

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Ok, you were wrong not stupid.
Let me tell you how gun bans work here.
D C enacted a gun ban, and don't tell me but Virginia blah blah blah, the number of crimes with guns dropped a little.
Unfortunately the crime rate doubled all they accomplished was making it safe to rob, murder, and rape with a knife or because the thugs were younger and stronger.
The gun bans only effect was to make life easier for the criminals, I don't care how it works where you are that is how it works here.
Of course if, as the officials in D C clearly did, that preventing one gun murder is worth having a thousand people killed with knives it works.
That wasn't exaggeration they insisted that the few gun crimes they stopped made it worthwhile.

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

So you can't explain how you managed to misunderstand my post?

You also evidently missed the last line.

Ya know.... the one where I pointed out that unless a ban could be effective it would be pointless.....

But... it would be a useful starting point for a thought experiment, for those that are capable.

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

As I said, I told my guns to kill someone, they didnt, thus proving that guns kill people is a false statement.

I then did another experiment to see if my guns told ME to kill someone. They didnt.

so you just demostrated that guns don't kill but gun owners do

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

So you can't explain how you managed to misunderstand my post?

You also evidently missed the last line.

Ya know.... the one where I pointed out that unless a ban could be effective it would be pointless.....

But... it would be a useful starting point for a thought experiment, for those that are capable.

I was preoccupied and misread it.
I was putting thought into this before you were born.
The more I think about it the worse a ban gets

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

..............many protests by gun owners group are indirectly supporting crimes like robbery or extorsion and small gangs in general, as with their attitude are giving to this professional criminal an easier access to effective tools for their job.
So I ask you a question, as responsible gun owner what kind of restriction are you willing to accept when buying or selling a gun, in order to obstruct professional criminals access to guns?

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

As I said, I told my guns to kill someone, they didnt, thus proving that guns kill people is a false statement.

I then did another experiment to see if my guns told ME to kill someone. They didnt.

so you just demostrated that guns don't kill but gun owners do

No, I demonstrated that some people with guns kill people.

I also demonstrated that the gun has no power over a human.

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

..............many protests by gun owners group are indirectly supporting crimes like robbery or extorsion and small gangs in general, as with their attitude are giving to this professional criminal an easier access to effective tools for their job.
So I ask you a question, as responsible gun owner what kind of restriction are you willing to accept when buying or selling a gun, in order to obstruct professional criminals access to guns?

To suggest that law abiding gun owners are fueling the criminals is absurd. There are just too many laws not crrently enforced to blame it on them. We're not buying that guilt trip.

Too many times criminals are let back out on the street when they don't belong there. This encompasses crimes of all sorts. There is early parole, plea bargains, and even judges who are too soft. Though in recent years many places have cracked down on gun crime such as Florida and California with its 3 strikes law.

We need to shore up the holes in our justice system and keep these assholes behind bars or institutionalized where they can't shoot people. We need to enforce laws currently not being enforced such as nabbing the thousands dip shits per year with criminal records who try to buy guns through a legal outlet. We need strategies that target violent drug gangs by whom most of these gun killings are perpetrated.

I can also tell you what is not acceptable. Just about anything with the term *ban* in it. That would include bans on semi automatics or particular handguns. Shoring up background checks are fine and dandy but gun registration is not. How about a no tolerance policy on criminals with guns or who use them in crimes like in Florida. Laws that go after criminals are fine. Laws that go after and affect law abiding peaceable citizens are not.

Keep in mind though, by cutting off or curtailing the current supply of weaponry to criminals, there are stockpiles of military hardware all over the world waiting to be had. I would venture to guess that criminals would eventually have some kind of black market imports to obtain their weapons but if the entire country, law abiding and criminal, is affected by some kind of ban law the black market would be something like we see with the illegal drug trade today.

And there is one other thing. Having armed personal in our public schools would go a long ways toward stopping these types of mass shootings. Whether they are police officers, paid security professionals or teachers and principles, it would be a short term solution until we get a handle on it.

There are no easy answers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

..............many protests by gun owners group are indirectly supporting crimes like robbery or extorsion and small gangs in general, as with their attitude are giving to this professional criminal an easier access to effective tools for their job.
So I ask you a question, as responsible gun owner what kind of restriction are you willing to accept when buying or selling a gun, in order to obstruct professional criminals access to guns?

To suggest that law abiding gun owners are fueling the criminals is absurd. There are just too many laws not crrently enforced to blame it on them. We're not buying that guilt trip.

Too many times criminals are let back out on the street when they don't belong there. This encompasses crimes of all sorts. There is early parole, plea bargains, and even judges who are too soft. Though in recent years many places have cracked down on gun crime such as Florida and California with its 3 strikes law.

We need to shore up the holes in our justice system and keep these assholes behind bars or institutionalized where they can't shoot people. We need to enforce laws currently not being enforced such as nabbing the thousands dip shits per year with criminal records who try to buy guns through a legal outlet. We need strategies that target violent drug gangs by whom most of these gun killings are perpetrated.

I can also tell you what is not acceptable. Just about anything with the term *ban* in it. That would include bans on semi automatics or particular handguns. Shoring up background checks are fine and dandy but gun registration is not. How about a no tolerance policy on criminals with guns or who use them in crimes like in Florida. Laws that go after criminals are fine. Laws that go after and affect law abiding peaceable citizens are not.

Keep in mind though, by cutting off or curtailing the current supply of weaponry to criminals, there are stockpiles of military hardware all over the world waiting to be had. I would venture to guess that criminals would eventually have some kind of black market imports to obtain their weapons but if the entire country, law abiding and criminal, is affected by some kind of ban law the black market would be something like we see with the illegal drug trade today.

And there is one other thing. Having armed personal in our public schools would go a long ways toward stopping these types of mass shootings. Whether they are police officers, paid security professionals or teachers and principles, it would be a short term solution until we get a handle on it.

There are no easy answers.

I don't agree with what you wrote in total you are the most incarcerated people in the western world and this solved nothing, if your logic was anyhow right there would be more crimes in europe than in the usa while it's the opposite, but as BamaD said you don't care how it works in other places so go on like this.

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ORIGINAL: eulero83



I see you reply only when you can answer "guns are not bad evil is in criminals" litany... people with guns are gun owners.

quote:

Let me explain why American gun owners have a hard time with citizens of the UK telling us what to do about guns.

Some years ago, on the 19th day of April, 700 guys in red coats marched out of Boston with orders to destroy the weapons belonging to the Massachusetts militia at Concord. Now the powers that be had in the past asked the militia to help them deal with bad people, like the French [Etc.]