respect vs. humiliation (Full Version)

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kevin32 -> respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 7:57:53 AM)

I've been told by some masters that women are human beings and need to be respected. And then I see women tied up, whipped, slapped, and called names like pig and whore. How can I respect a woman and humiliate her like that? Or what are the dynamics between respect and humiliation that makes it enjoyable for those involved? Thanks.



mnottertail -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 8:01:59 AM)

I don't get it, what is the question? How is it not respect?



JeffBC -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 8:08:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevin32
I've been told by some masters that women are human beings and need to be respected. And then I see women tied up, whipped, slapped, and called names like pig and whore. How can I respect a woman and humiliate her like that? Or what are the dynamics between respect and humiliation that makes it enjoyable for those involved? Thanks.

What you are missing here is the word "roleplay". Carol and I don't do any roleplay nor do we do anything like a scene. So in our relationship "humiliation" would turn out exactly as you are suggesting. It would be real humiliation and it would really indicate a lack of respect. Sure, though, you understand that other people like to wrap a bit of fantasy around their reality. And there are no rules to fantasy. What's hot is what is hot. All of it is no more real than a saturday morning cartoon.

Then, of course, is the redefinition of words within a relationship. I sometimes call Carol "my bitch". That phrase does not mean what it does in normal english or gangster rap. In fact, it's best translation in english is, "You're my mate" in a wolf pack sort of viewpoint.



LadyPact -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 8:14:45 AM)

I think you might be confusing things that people enjoy for sexual excitement with who they are as a human being. Believe it or not, there is a difference.



MasterCaneman -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 8:36:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kevin32

I've been told by some masters that women are human beings and need to be respected. And then I see women tied up, whipped, slapped, and called names like pig and whore. How can I respect a woman and humiliate her like that? Or what are the dynamics between respect and humiliation that makes it enjoyable for those involved? Thanks.



My simple answer is, because they like it and want to do it, otherwise it wouldn't be happening in the first place. When I was active in the scene, I had partners that enjoyed being degraded within the boundaries of the scene we were playing out. Once done, it was back to common courtesy and civility between two people. But that was just my experience, others will have different views on the matter.



angelikaJ -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 10:10:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kevin32

I've been told by some masters that women are human beings and need to be respected. And then I see women tied up, whipped, slapped, and called names like pig and whore. How can I respect a woman and humiliate her like that? Or what are the dynamics between respect and humiliation that makes it enjoyable for those involved? Thanks.



If she doesn't like humiliation scenes, then it shouldn't be a problem.
Lots of women don't.
Some like it in the context of scenes.

Compatibility is important.
Partner with someone whose wants and needs match with yours.

However, the dynamics, as I understand it is this: for some women enduring humiliation, by a trusted partner who does respect them is hot for them. It is the safety of having it be with a partner you trust that makes it possible.



chatterbox24 -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 10:15:00 AM)

Another spin on it is humiliation can actually if done right, teach a person to form respect for their Master or others, were they may have lacked in this previously. It takes some skill to not damage the person mentally but to strengthen them to be a better person. Unwanted pain and torment emotionally and mentally, can bring person to their knees and open doors. But it can be a dangerous practice, and let it be someone you trust completely. It has to be performed with great care, with the right intent, for it to be successful and not harmful.



RumpusParable -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 11:09:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kevin32

I've been told by some masters that women are human beings and need to be respected. And then I see women tied up, whipped, slapped, and called names like pig and whore. How can I respect a woman and humiliate her like that? Or what are the dynamics between respect and humiliation that makes it enjoyable for those involved? Thanks.



I can appreciate how this may seem a contradiction or confusing for someone not familiar with such things... are you new to bdsm and the general scene (real-time or not)?

The two truly aren't contradictory. Nor is being against domestic violence and spanking or choking one's spouse during play.


Rather, in healthy relationships, the things you describe (respect and the physical and verbal behaviors) go hand in hand: one partner expresses clearly to another "I like this and would like to know if you do, too" and the other expresses "Yes, I do and would like to pursue it with you". (Not necessarily in that way, of course, but with similar words or understandings between them). They each respect the other's desires, opinions, rights to say yes or no, to decide what is best for themselves, etc. and then agree together how to be together during scenes or a relationship.

And let's not forget that it goes many different ways: female as the top over a male, male over top of a male, female over top of a female. Male topping females isn't the only way it goes.

When I walk up to a friend and say "I'd like to put needles in you, would you like that?" I'm respecting them and their right to make that decision. I'm respecting who they are as a person by offering the idea and then proceeding with what they are okay with or not by them not being okay with it. If we are both fine with doing a needle scene it's for mutual enjoyment, not about disrespect.

When a friend walks up to me and says "I'd like to cane and flog you", they are doing the same to me: showing respect in that they feel I have the choice to make over my own actions and my own body, asking and accepting my yes or no, and if I then say yes playing in a manner we have agreed upon.

There's no lack of respect there, it's simply that what we choose to do together as consenting adults is rough sometimes.

I can't and won't do certain types of play, my friends and lovers respect that when I tell them and do not ask me to, do not press for it. We do together the type of play that I (and they) are okay with.

Liking to essentially roughhouse together physically or verbally doesn't mean two people don't respect each other.

Can people do it out of disrespect or in a disrespectful manner and motivation? Yup. But that's the case with all sorts of human interactions. But that's not necessarily (or even hardly ever, in my personal experience) the case most of the time with BDSM play.

Short summary as this has gotten long:

Doing something together that they find fun or satisfying together doesn't indicate that one or both of the people don't respect the other, even if what they are doing is intense in some or many ways.



kalikshama -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 12:05:04 PM)

My man is an uber gentleman outside the bedroom and delightfully nasty behind closed doors.



aldompdx -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 12:58:53 PM)

Humility and humiliation are two completely different things.

What ultimately makes it enjoyable for the controller is the ego rush on the difference in degree of control and surrender, being accepted and validated as good enough to hold another's life in one's hands -- like electrical voltage.

What ultimately makes it enjoyable for the surrendered is the process... the openess, the relase, the humble transparency, which allows deeper feelings and perceptions to flow and gives the opportunity to actually experience strong feelings -- like electrical current.

The controller can be subconsciously repeating past abuse, and projecting it onto the surrendered, in a bargain of "prove how much you love me" (= make me feel that I am good enough to be loved).

The surrendered can be codependently bargaining for love, "if only I give this, I will be loved 'enough.'"

In this less healthy manifestation, the partners are adding layers of obstacles, rather than allowing deeper fulfillment to come through.



Kana -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 2:37:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kevin32

I've been told by some masters that women are human beings and need to be respected. And then I see women tied up, whipped, slapped, and called names like pig and whore. How can I respect a woman and humiliate her like that? Or what are the dynamics between respect and humiliation that makes it enjoyable for those involved? Thanks.


I always hurt the things I love.


Or to go all Fight Club, "Sometimes I wanna destroy something beautiful."

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
Fuck dude, sounds like someone is wrestling with the new dom guilts.

A pretty common affliction, pretty much one almost everyone goes through (Not a straight out psycho like you RS, but the rest of us mere mortals[8D]). look at it like this. She needs someone to control her. She needs someone to hold her accountable. She needs that endorphin rush that comes from hard play. She craves being taken and forced (Not that she'd ever willingly utter the words aloud, but it's true. Just ask that wet ass pussy, that shit don't lie).

In a world, and website, full of creepy ass, misogynistic, wannabe dangerous wankers and flat out sociopathic freaks, I'm a sane rational guy who can give her what she needs to function happily and wholly in life. Point of fact, I'm doing the slut a favor and she should be, and damn well is, eternally grateful that I take time out of my busy life to torture her ass.
She should, and does, grovel and beg for the privilege.

That her needs and my personal desires coincide is a happy circumstance and the roots of our relationship can be found there.
I'll say this once and make it as clear as possible, In beating, humiliating and degrading her, we are both fulfilling each of our desires, thus we both win. We are both fully incentivized to participate 100% because we both find fulfillment in doing so.
Contradictory?
Hah. You bet.
Welcome to the conundrum that lies at the taproot of BDSM.

(I'll whisper a secret too-Get this one teensy eensy fact straight and it'll let you get in slaves heads forever. It's amazing how utterly essential this one point is...and how completely overlooked and underdiscussed it is too)




NuevaVida -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 7:54:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

That her needs and my personal desires coincide is a happy circumstance and the roots of our relationship can be found there.
I'll say this once and make it as clear as possible, In beating, humiliating and degrading her, we are both fulfilling each of our desires, thus we both win. We are both fully incentivized to participate 100% because we both find fulfillment in doing so.



This.

And for us, it's not role play, as was suggested earlier. In that moment, I *AM* those things to him. Just like when we get all dolled up for a party, in that moment, I'm a freakin princess.

There are many facets to us humans. The key is knowing when to tap into them, and how. But for us it's ALL under an umbrella of love and respect.



DesFIP -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 8:02:41 PM)

Being tied up makes me highly aroused. By doing this to me, he is respecting the fact that I know what I need sexually.

If he insisted on missionary with the lights out only because he believed I was too fragile to have what I want, or if he believed that obviously I was too stupid to know what I really needed, then that would be disrespect.

If you go out on wing night and she orders hers with habanero sauce, do you believe she does not deserve respect? Do you tell the waiter that she doesn't really want that and to bring her the mildest ones, would that be respectful in your opinion?

These are sensations we play with. Nobody thinks someone does not deserve respect for liking strong sensations in food. Or in sight and sound by going to a horror movie.

When you announce that sex is different, that the sense of touch is totally different, what you're really saying is that you have conflicts with your sexuality and therefore are uncomfortable with women who are not equally conflicted. The solution for that is to talk to a therapist.

I'm not saying that you need to become a bondage top or bottom, a masochist or a sadist. But you need to accept that other people have the right to decide for themselves what they need. That you don't have the right to treat them like children. Which is what you're doing.

In the meantime, don't get involved with women who are bottoms because you aren't capable of giving them what they need and their needs make you very uncomfortable.



kevin32 -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/26/2013 9:51:56 PM)

So many responses, from different perspectives no less. Thank you all. Yes, RumpusParable I'm an aspiring dom, currently in the lightweight category. My bedroom dominance is dirty talk with some spanking during sex. The stuff I mentioned in the OP is just too hardcore for my tastes, but I'm learning that when done right, even the slaves derive pleasure from it.



Kana -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/27/2013 2:38:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kevin32

So many responses, from different perspectives no less. Thank you all. Yes, RumpusParable I'm an aspiring dom, currently in the lightweight category. My bedroom dominance is dirty talk with some spanking during sex. The stuff I mentioned in the OP is just too hardcore for my tastes, but I'm learning that when done right, even the slaves derive pleasure from it.

Find a gal who has holes in her head that are the perfect fit for the rocks in yours. Then you'll be doing fine.



HarryVanWinkle -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/27/2013 2:47:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevin32

I've been told by some masters that women are human beings and need to be respected. And then I see women tied up, whipped, slapped, and called names like pig and whore. How can I respect a woman and humiliate her like that? Or what are the dynamics between respect and humiliation that makes it enjoyable for those involved? Thanks.



Not all masters play with women. In fact, some masters ARE women. Not all submissives are women either.

I've never considered calling myself a master and doubt I ever will. I do top occasionally and bottom almost every chance I get. I would not engage in humiliation play with a bottom whom I did not respect, like and know that she gets off on that sort of play. I would not consent to bottom for humiliation play with a top whom I did not know respects and likes me.

I would never tell a bottom she's a worthless cunt if I felt she really was a worthless cunt. If I thought that, I wouldn't play with her at all.



SerWhiteTiger -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/27/2013 8:43:19 PM)

Oddly, I can't do those things to a woman I don't respect.



DesFIP -> RE: respect vs. humiliation (9/27/2013 9:51:52 PM)

And yes, surprising though it may be op, women are human beings.

As far as any individual human being, male or female, deserving respect: only if they earn it. Do you think that these women who you don't believe are human beings have much respect for you?



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