RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 6:00:17 PM)

A masochist is someone who likes pain.

A submissive is someone who wants to serve.

Note that a masochist is defined only during play, and a submissive is defined outside of it.

As far as masochism being created by early childhood abuse and being accompanied with shame - I don't know about that.



MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 6:32:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
As far as masochism being created by early childhood abuse and being accompanied with shame - I don't know about that.



I know some people who were abused as children. I would suggest not trying to dominate them unless you like to RUN.



kalikshama -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 7:18:54 PM)

quote:

I find a deep tissue massage to be one of the most excruciating things on the face of planet. Other people find them deeply enjoyable.


Not only do I adore deep tissue massage (just got back from one - I like it so hard I have to "breathe into it" and am a little sore the next day) but I also liked rolfing and wouldn't mind getting a second series done as it's been about 12 years since the last one.



tsatske -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 7:42:05 PM)

What is rolfing? I have to look high and wide for new fetishes, you know.

I think the OP has been really open about accepting another point of view, I do believe he wants to learn.

I am very submissive, and very masochistic. They do not necessarily come as a pair, although in me, my masochism only works in conjecture with my submission. I like a lot of pain, but only from someone I'm deeply committed to serving. That's what it takes, for me, to process pain as pleasure. So much so that I have to white knuckle through the first couple play sessions in a new relationship, till the love kicks in.

I was abused as a child. I don't know if it is instrumental in me being either submissive or maso, but I know that I am a quilt, made up of all the pieces, both good and bad, of my past, and I love the way I turned out. So rather it was a factor or not, I'm fine with it.



DesFIP -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 7:45:39 PM)

The relationship you're imagining between masochism and abuse is coincidental. 1 in 4 women have been abused. I don't know what the rates of masochism are. Lets pick ten percent. That means that 25 of 100 masochistic women will have been abused.

But that's coincidence, not causal.



zerogirl -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 8:09:57 PM)

I've known masochists before that would scoff at the idea of submitting themselves to someone so I don't think it's always the case of them going together, just that they sometimes do. I'm a masochist but I think I'm more submissive than masochistic, if my Master decided one day decided to just stop with all play, spankings, etc... I could live even though I'd always be a little disappointed. I would be much more broken up if He told me I could no longer serve Him.

As for the whole sexual abuse leading to masochism, I think that's just a stereotype that needs to end. Usually though I only hear it in vanilla folks. I had not one but two exes (vanilla) look at me like a beaten down puppy when I revealed my masochistic (and submissive) desires and then question me about how I must have been abused as a child. Which I never was for the record. One even told me I was probably just too young to remember when it happened. [8|]



tsatske -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 8:23:50 PM)

abuse which happens when someone is too young to remember does leave psychiatric symptoms behind, to be sure. but who tries to tell a person they've been abused, when they are saying they haven't? That's just crazy. It's like trying to tell someone that they are wrong about their ethnic heritage, and tell them what you think it is, based on hair color or something. I find the whole idea rude, insensitive and intrusive, not to mention that it is pure prejudice and stereotyping.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 8:24:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75
I would like to run this by the group to get a concensus. I believe that a masochist is most certain a submissive, but the submissive does not have to be a masochist.

I've definitely dated dominant bottoms -- and these were women who proudly self-identified as dominant bottoms. Not me passive aggressively labeling them as such after the fact.



Missokyst -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 8:28:14 PM)

I am a masochist and a submissive. Masochism did begin early on with abuse. Submission was ingrained from well before that. I have absolutely NO guilt or shame for things which were forced upon me before I was able to speak up. And I mean thast not just as an adult, but as the younger being who endured those things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75

I would like to run this by the group to get a concensus. I believe that a masochist is most certain a submissive, but the submissive does not have to be a masochist. I think the Masochist is ussualy the product of early childhood sexual abuse and it is typically laced with guilt and shame. I think the submissive can get in at any point of their life and at any level. It an opinion. I would like to hear what others think.




myotherself -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 10:30:04 PM)

~FR~

I've always been submissive - it's just the way I am.

I'm also a masochist, although I didn't find this out until about 10 years ago when I first started to explore bdsm. I mostly hate light, gentle touches - they make my skin crawl. I used to have a vanilla boyfriend who loved to stroke my body during lovemaking, and he adored giving oral sex. I used to avoid sex because the whole experience made me want to scream and run away.

I love firm grips, beatings and strong, intense feelings. That is nothing to do with childhood sexual abuse and all to do with the way my brain processes touch and sensation. Telling me that I was probably a victim of sexual abuse is likely to turn you into a victim of physical abuse ... from me.



SoulAlloy -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/26/2013 11:24:14 PM)

Masochist here too - love it :)

I actually drop harder from having my submissive buttons pushed than I do from being masochistic, where I get those feelings of insecurity and self doubt, and perhaps a little shame.

Abused? Not that I know of, and I certainly doubt it.



slavekate80 -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/27/2013 4:28:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The relationship you're imagining between masochism and abuse is coincidental. 1 in 4 women have been abused. I don't know what the rates of masochism are. Lets pick ten percent. That means that 25 of 100 masochistic women will have been abused.

But that's coincidence, not causal.


If you're using Mary Koss's old study (the usual source for 1-in-4 stats), her methodology was seriously flawed, and only ~25% of her 25% figure (so, roughly 1 in 16) saw themselves as victims. She was off by at least a factor of 4 for most purposes.

Otherwise, agreed; the link is, at least mostly, coincidental.



Winterapple -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/27/2013 5:04:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

What is rolfing? I have to look high and wide for new fetishes, you know.



Rolfing Structural Integration
It's a type of bodywork and movement education that reorganizes
the connective tissues(fascia). It works to realign and balance the
whole body, relieve discomfort and tension, and alleviate pain.
Two prominent benefits of Rolfing are improved posture and better
and freer movement.

You have to have it done by a certified Rolf practitioner.
On average you have ten sessions. It's a very intense
experience, emotionally as well as physically. Not for
the faint hearted. I underwent it a few years ago and
I'm very glad I did. But it's not for everyone.



thishereboi -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/27/2013 5:09:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75

I would like to run this by the group to get a concensus. I believe that a masochist is most certain a submissive, but the submissive does not have to be a masochist. I think the Masochist is ussualy the product of early childhood sexual abuse and it is typically laced with guilt and shame. I think the submissive can get in at any point of their life and at any level. It an opinion. I would like to hear what others think.



Used to be the excuse people dragged out when trying to explain why a women would be sexually attracted to another women instead of a man. I thought it was bullshit back then and I feel the same way about this new twist on it.



chatterbox24 -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/27/2013 5:27:04 AM)

Poster, I don't think your wrong about some masochist wanting what they do out of something from their past, but it clearly isn't correct in a lot of peoples situations.
I do know in my situation, a lot of choices I have made did stem from my past, when I wasn't even aware of it for a long time.



JeffBC -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/27/2013 5:52:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75
It an opinion. I would like to hear what others think.

I think your opinions are woefully unaligned with the reality I observe.

I believe that a masochist is most certain a submissive
Why? As I understand masochism we're talking about someone gets sexual gratification out of some sort of pain. What has that got to do with any sort of submission?

but the submissive does not have to be a masochist.
This I agree with. I see them as entirely unrelated to each other.

I think the Masochist is usually the product of early childhood sexual abuse and it is typically laced with guilt and shame.
I could be wrong but not only does this fail to align with what I've read from various posters here and elsewhere but it also flies in the face of what few reasonably scientific studies which I've read. Is there some reason you can't just like pain? Various people have various reactions to pain. I tend to ignore it. Carol tends to be a wimp about it. She also has some "masochistic tendencies" that I could fan into flame if I wanted to. Hell, I could probably take on masochism as an acquired taste if it suddenly seemed beneficial to my marriage.

I think the submissive can get in at any point of their life and at any level.
Sort of. Carol is what I call "socially submissive" (think doormat without all the ugly parts). Just as I am a "natural born leader" she is a "natural born follower". Hell, most humans are natural born followers to some degree... it's just she's moreso than the norm. In other words, when I look labels like "dominant" and "submissive" I'm looking at core personality traits and they tend to be gotten at early ages.

Insofar as your "level" comment, what the heck is that? Do you have some submissivosity measuring device you're using? How would you know a "level 3" submissive from a "level 8" submissive?



casidi75 -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/27/2013 7:17:42 AM)

Well folks thank you all for bringing me into the light. I know time is precious and I appreciate that you were willing to give me some of yours. I really thought I knew something but found out I am a newbie. I was would love to think I would not post anything stupid or ignorant but it likely to happen again. i am Grateful i am here. My path may have been different but i fell like i belong. Gratefully Casidi



JeffBC -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/27/2013 7:32:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75
I was would love to think I would not post anything stupid or ignorant but it likely to happen again.

... to all of us, not simply you. :)

Welcome to CM.



casidi75 -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/27/2013 12:42:57 PM)

I share a similar experience back in the 60s there was little awareness that if a 5 year old developed sexual behavior he was acting out with neighborhood girls it was because some one showed them. My mother was a scottish matriarc and she belived i was a little pervet a bad seed. i took many beatens for my inapropiate behavior. When i was 8 i was molested again by another women and at 15 i knocked up a 28 year old dom. We married and were together for 25 years. i was and my children were disowned by their grandmother. The head fuck is huge especially when you really young for you dont even understand why your being beaten and robbed of efection and nurturing. I am learning here there is a huge up side and i will grow knoledgeable and healthy with the folks here. Thank you for sharing this with me I know it is hard. What is important is to know it was not our fault. Warm regards casidi



casidi75 -> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive (9/27/2013 12:45:51 PM)

What a beautiful way to live. Thanks



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