RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment ***

RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (Full Version)

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HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 9:29:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist? Crazy, out of real morbid curiosity, what do you think of immature men with real tiny dicks who get off on goading people?

JeffBC -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 9:40:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA Crazy, out of real morbid curiosity, what do you think of immature men with real tiny dicks who get off on goading people? Personally, I just thought that it was probably unfair of you to take out your badass ninja skillz on some poor mexican martial arts champ. The least you could have done was have the good graces to pick some country like China with known martial arts champs.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 9:42:03 PM)
First off rape and other sexual assaults are underreported as per the American Medical Association and other groups. Secondly what information there is it appears 78% of sexual attackers are family members, intimate partner, friend, or acquaintance. And according to the FBI report violent crime went up, property crime went down in 2012. The US is the worlds most privately owned gun country. I keep wondering where you get your information....Cracker Jack? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The sheer stupidity of this argument astounds me, for it to have any validity you have to assume that if there are no ccws all rapes are reported but people stop reporting them as soon as ccw is passed. And yet you think this makes sense.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 9:47:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. [sm=boohoo.gif] Maybe you should start a thread to discuss that instead of dragging this one off topic, then. The right to bear arms is the clearest expression of his point, far more than freedomdwarfs random off the wall and inaccurate statement about WWII which hasn't been discussed for months but you have expressed no problem with his totally irrelevant comments.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 9:49:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. Hunter, if you could possibly move past the point of disparaging the 90% or so of the world's population who are more left wing than you are as 'extremists', it might, just might, move this discussion along. I hope that helps. [:)] It would help if other Englishmen didn't insist that we should just brush aside the constitution and do as we are told.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 9:52:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Others have said as much... the poet Dryden's 'eldest law' comes to mind. Apparently not everyone agrees that self defense is a good thing, but I'm in favor of it... myself. The usual debate rhetoric seems to revolve around the logical fallacy that a right can be carried to the absurd. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe. The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves to protect themselves from said violence? I say whatever complete right. Self defense is a right even granted to animals in this country, to deny it to humans is absurd.

lovmuffin -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 10:13:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA Crazy, out of real morbid curiosity, what do you think of immature men with real tiny dicks who get off on goading people? You should save that one for the next small penis humiliation thread. [8D]

lovmuffin -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 10:26:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist? Can I play too ? Wouldn't that pretty much be all or most of Western Europe. Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Norway come to mind. Oh and I cant forget Greece. That one is a biggie.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 11:37:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. It is nearly 250 years old, times change, at least for the rest of the civilised world they do A civilized country would not deny it's people either the right or the ability to defend themselves.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 11:48:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. Hunter, if you could possibly move past the point of disparaging the 90% or so of the world's population who are more left wing than you are as 'extremists', it might, just might, move this discussion along. I hope that helps. [:)] Translation : be reasonable, do it our way.

Nosathro -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 1:15:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Others have said as much... the poet Dryden's 'eldest law' comes to mind. Apparently not everyone agrees that self defense is a good thing, but I'm in favor of it... myself. The usual debate rhetoric seems to revolve around the logical fallacy that a right can be carried to the absurd. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe. The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves to protect themselves from said violence? I say whatever complete right. That is an interesting point. It's also a point that a post modern philosopher would agree with from the standpoint of who judges 'right'. In my case I then have to go back to the question does might make right? In a majority of the world it does. For instance if I'm in a bad part of town and accosted by bad people, if I have the might do I have the right to protect myself to an extreme. I believe I do. That extreme may not be right in an alternate situation. But, what right does the government have to pre-ordain my right prior to examination of the situation? I am sure gun owners like Raul Rodriguez, Donald Montanez/Rivera, John Spooner and others feel the same way you do when they shot and killed innocent people and are now in prison. I would say the Government has every right.

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 2:00:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist? Can I play too ? Wouldn't that pretty much be all or most of Western Europe. Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Norway come to mind. Oh and I cant forget Greece. That one is a biggie. define what socialist means for you please

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 7:01:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA Crazy, out of real morbid curiosity, what do you think of immature men with real tiny dicks who get off on goading people? Personally, I just thought that it was probably unfair of you to take out your badass ninja skillz on some poor mexican martial arts champ. The least you could have done was have the good graces to pick some country like China with known martial arts champs. Ya, well, I told you it was silly. Actually, when we were done, the guy told me he just wanted me to know he didn't fear me. I can say that much for him. There was no fear in him. We then got drunk and nobody thought of it again...except maybe the guy with the tiny dick. I will add that I've only got second hand knowledge of the dick dimensions.

lovmuffin -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 7:02:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist? Can I play too ? Wouldn't that pretty much be all or most of Western Europe. Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Norway come to mind. Oh and I cant forget Greece. That one is a biggie. define what socialist means for you please Countries where the economic gap between people that have and people that have less is not that great. They have a capitalist side but lean heavily on social support systems for things like health care and schools, and they over regulate the business sector. In America, socialism is a dirty word in many circles but we are certainly headed in that direction if not practically there. Though we have this thing called a constitution that's not supposed to give rise to socialism, its been misinterpreted over the years. We think we're so freakin capitalist even though we aren't so much as we used to be. We think we're a free country but that's probably because the citizens have a crap load of firepower.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 7:04:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist? Can I play too ? Wouldn't that pretty much be all or most of Western Europe. Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Norway come to mind. Oh and I cant forget Greece. That one is a biggie. define what socialist means for you please eulero, socialists have been arguing about what the definition of socialism is for a long time. They've even killed each other over it. Why should anyone now throw up an offhand definition for you to nit pick rather than stick to the thread?

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 7:09:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist? Can I play too ? Wouldn't that pretty much be all or most of Western Europe. Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Norway come to mind. Oh and I cant forget Greece. That one is a biggie. define what socialist means for you please Countries where the economic gap between people that have and people that have less is not that great. They have a capitalist side but lean heavily on social support systems for things like health care and schools, and they over regulate the business sector. In America, socialism is a dirty word in many circles but we are certainly headed in that direction if not practically there. Though we have this thing called a constitution that's not supposed to give rise to socialism, its been misinterpreted over the years. We think we're so freakin capitalist even though we aren't so much as we used to be. We think we're a free country but that's probably because the citizens have a crap load of firepower. Lovmuffin, capitalism is a derogatory word applied by Marxists. Use the proper term, "Free Market." So socialism is central control of a market that is not free. Other than the terminology I agree with you. And to keep this on thread, giving the central control to the government of the rights of the individual...most importantly the right to defend themselves. Because if you have no right to defend yourself you have no other right. You are chattle to the state.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 7:15:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Others have said as much... the poet Dryden's 'eldest law' comes to mind. Apparently not everyone agrees that self defense is a good thing, but I'm in favor of it... myself. The usual debate rhetoric seems to revolve around the logical fallacy that a right can be carried to the absurd. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe. The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves to protect themselves from said violence? I say whatever complete right. That is an interesting point. It's also a point that a post modern philosopher would agree with from the standpoint of who judges 'right'. In my case I then have to go back to the question does might make right? In a majority of the world it does. For instance if I'm in a bad part of town and accosted by bad people, if I have the might do I have the right to protect myself to an extreme. I believe I do. That extreme may not be right in an alternate situation. But, what right does the government have to pre-ordain my right prior to examination of the situation? I am sure gun owners like Raul Rodriguez, Donald Montanez/Rivera, John Spooner and others feel the same way you do when they shot and killed innocent people and are now in prison. I would say the Government has every right. I'm pleased to hear you say you're sure you know how crazy people think.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 7:45:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist? Can I play too ? Wouldn't that pretty much be all or most of Western Europe. Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Norway come to mind. Oh and I cant forget Greece. That one is a biggie. define what socialist means for you please Eulero, last week I read in the news that a court in Britain, equivalent to our Appellate court here, determined that the government run hospital and medical system could decide to take a person off life support over objections from the family. To me, a three percent chance to get mugged here is far better than a 100 percent right of the government to kill me when it no longer has a use for me. I honestly don't know why you and peon fear being here.

Nosathro -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 8:50:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Others have said as much... the poet Dryden's 'eldest law' comes to mind. Apparently not everyone agrees that self defense is a good thing, but I'm in favor of it... myself. The usual debate rhetoric seems to revolve around the logical fallacy that a right can be carried to the absurd. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe. The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves to protect themselves from said violence? I say whatever complete right. That is an interesting point. It's also a point that a post modern philosopher would agree with from the standpoint of who judges 'right'. In my case I then have to go back to the question does might make right? In a majority of the world it does. For instance if I'm in a bad part of town and accosted by bad people, if I have the might do I have the right to protect myself to an extreme. I believe I do. That extreme may not be right in an alternate situation. But, what right does the government have to pre-ordain my right prior to examination of the situation? I am sure gun owners like Raul Rodriguez, Donald Montanez/Rivera, John Spooner and others feel the same way you do when they shot and killed innocent people and are now in prison. I would say the Government has every right. I'm pleased to hear you say you're sure you know how crazy people think. I worked in mental institutions so I do have some experience. You seem to be biased and very judgmental and know little of many things you have posted as I corrected a few. Do you really know anything about Marxism? Have you read "Das Kapital" and/or "The Communist Manifesto" "Socialism Past, Present and Future", Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy" or are you just ranting? [sm=soapbox.gif]

Nosathro -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/6/2013 8:55:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist? Can I play too ? Wouldn't that pretty much be all or most of Western Europe. Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Norway come to mind. Oh and I cant forget Greece. That one is a biggie. define what socialist means for you please Eulero, last week I read in the news that a court in Britain, equivalent to our Appellate court here, determined that the government run hospital and medical system could decide to take a person off life support over objections from the family. To me, a three percent chance to get mugged here is far better than a 100 percent right of the government to kill me when it no longer has a use for me. I honestly don't know why you and peon fear being here. And again you misrepresent the facts. The boy was terminal ill and the parents were hoping for a miracle. To keep the boy on life support only caused him more pain and a higher risk of medical complications. In short the boy was already dead.

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