freedomdwarf1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zonie63
quote:
ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
How many countries in the First World can you cite that have moved towards the USA's policy on gun ownership rather than (even further) away from it? In all the time I've been posting on CM I've only noticed one, just one, British poster who's liked the US freedom in regards to guns and wanted the same for the UK. (And I may add that the American gun-supporters thought this one person was a complete dickhead, IIRC.)
Seriously, K, I look at certain Americans talking about, say, armed guards in schools, or carrying weapons into church services . . . and, now, I'm honestly getting to the point of disbelief. Guns are symbols of violence and killing. How can it be psychologically, socially or ethically healthy to have young kids exposed to their presence in the very places that are supposed to give them their first lessons about how to live and what the good society is about? And guns in churches? Is anyone really surprised that a lot of people are going to find this idea utterly contradictory to something fundamental in Christianity?
Is it really the guns and what they symbolize that's at issue here? Guns do exist, as they have for centuries, whether or not society is capable of restricting their ownership and/or having them secured by competent, trustworthy people. That seems to be the core issue here, not so much what guns symbolize.
I think a lot of the problem with the gun perspective, especially from posters who live in a relatively gun-free country, is the plain and simple fact that we see and hear on the news (almost daily) that the people who live in gun-populated countries just don't appear to be able to be "competent, trustworthy people".
There are many Brits (and Australians) that do actually own guns, as do quite a few others; but you rarely see the daily shootings and regular massacres that we see in the US.
For my own PoV, there are three main reasons for this -
1) Guns are not allowed to be carried in public places - it's illegal everywhere, not just in certain towns or counties or 'gun free' zones.
2) Virtually every gun owner goes through rigorous police and psychological health checks before any gun license is issued. Licenses are only issued for very specific guns - not a general arsenal. Apparently, this is not true for the US.
3) Because of the severe restrictions, getting hold of illegal guns is quite difficult, even for criminals. This is also why we don't have as many violent gangs per capita as there are in the US and other gun-prolific countries.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zonie63
The gun itself is just an object, but it's who gets to own them and control them is what is under discussion. The guns themselves will never go away. The genie left that bottle centuries ago.
And there is one of the root problems with the US.
Many 1st-world countries have evolved and realised strict gun controls are necessary for general public safety. Apparently, because of the 2nd, Americans haven't evolved to that realisation (yet).
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ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Guns are a symbol of the human species, a testament to our desire to come up with clever inventions to kill each other much more effectively.
Very true.
But not many 1st-world countries allow citizens to carry guns on public streets like the US.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zonie63
I don't know that Europeans necessarily feel "superior" to Americans, although when I speak to Europeans about America, I find that they get some things wrong about us. Many seem to already have their minds made up about America and tend to dismiss the American point of view as either "ignorant" or "crazy." It's common in political banter to reduce the opposition to the lowest common denominator, but the problem is that it creates a skewed image of things that can lead to the point of disbelief of which you speak.
I don't think we are any more 'superior' or 'inferior' to the US - as a people or culture.
I think what tends to happen is that we see the stubbornness of Americans to even acknowledge that the gun culture is creating problems that quite a few countries have all-but eliminated.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zonie63
I think comparisons between Europe and America are a bit old, anyway. Fact is, our historical paths have run somewhat parallel to each other, but in slightly different directions. One can argue that America has actually been more stable overall during the past 200+ years, while Europe has seen far more upheavals and conflicts than we've had here in America. That doesn't necessarily make one "superior" to the other, but our different historical experiences have given us different perspectives. Our way of doing things may be wrong for Europe, but right for us - and vice versa.
I quite agree with the stability thing.
But that is more to do with politics than the people or any gun culture.
But I think the current US political shambles, added to the gun problems, is beginning to show that the system over there just isn't working as it should.
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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 
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