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police keep family from dying daughter - 9/28/2013 7:12:24 PM

defiantbadgirl

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http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/distraught-family-members-pepper-sprayed-handcuffed-bench-while-daughter-dying-self-inflicted-gunshot-wound/

Why would the girl's family who were trying to get her to the hospital knock her off the gurney and block the doors to the ambulance? That doesn't even make sense!

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/28/2013 10:55:51 PM

DsBound

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I saw this earlier... very sad. I wonder how a brownshirt would feel if the situation was turned around.

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/29/2013 4:06:18 AM

joether

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The really sad part here is that everyone's focus is on everything, BUT, the reason EVERYTHING happened: Why did the girl kill herself? There is no information presented to give any indication of details. Was the gun hers? How did she acquire the gun? Was it secured before hand and she still got to it? Did she have any sort of medical reason to be in a suicidal state? How was life treating her before all these horrible events forced her to that spot? The blog presents nothing here but accusations towards the 'evil government', 'evil police' and 'evil EMTs'.

The police and EMTs are NOT the villains of this story; so quite making them out to be so! This is a sad moment in the life of a 16 year old girl. What drove her to kill herself? Unfortunately, those that use firearms to kill themselves are 90% likely to succeed. Compare that to drugs or other ways to die, the firearm is quick, easy and usually final. Still worst, there is no research being performed (or has been performed) to understand how suicide prevention can work when a firearm is in the home.

If I had to take a guess...

The family are either avid gun folks (hunting, recreational / sport shooting) or the firearm(s) are strictly for self defense. She would know how to access and use the firearm, whether openly or covert. An her family, sadly, like many others that suffer through this tragedy do not even have a basic understanding of the symptoms that led up to suicide in teenagers. Maybe her parents did not think things were that bad, or were not even aware of the problems to begin with. Maybe she was fine, but some freak event led her down a 'what if' spiral towards self destruction; some event or idea she could not handle were it open to her parents or those around her. Kids, even teenagers come up with some really frantic stuff without someone keeping an eye on them. Just a really sad tale.....

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/29/2013 4:15:54 AM

DomKen

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FR
I simply do not believe the father's story. Cops and EMT's are not perfect but the claim that the cops just started pepper spraying random people in front of witnesses is not believable. Something more happened.

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/29/2013 4:55:01 AM

eulero83

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FR

I usually spent time saying that police shuld not use violence so lightly, but in this case I see all the reson to act, a person was down for a firearm wound and no person outside the family was involved, so it could be an accident but also a domestic violence case, as someone said in a post above how did she got the gun? because if it was her father's or her brother's I don't know how they could have released them so quickly, in that case the owner of the gun is responsible of manslaughter for how I see it as failed in properly guard his weapon... or is there no law about it in the usa?

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/29/2013 6:14:01 AM

DaNewAgeViking

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We need to consider the source of that article as well. This smells of some gun-sociopath going off on the cops. It will be interesting to see what turns up in the investigation.

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/29/2013 6:23:28 AM

Lucylastic

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http://articles.kspr.com/2013-09-25/joplin-man_42401603

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missouri-man-arrested-charged-spat-emt-responding-daughters/story?id=20398866

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2434641/Police-pepper-sprayed-Joplin-father-daughter-Brooke-Russell-lay-dying-shouted-EMT-help-her.html

http://www.koamtv.com/story/23531243/family-calls-charges-stemming-from-night-of-teens-suicide-unfounded
Just a few more sites with info

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/29/2013 8:33:50 AM

TheHeretic

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Sad, sad, sad.

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/29/2013 9:45:13 AM

igor2003

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR
I simply do not believe the father's story. Cops and EMT's are not perfect but the claim that the cops just started pepper spraying random people in front of witnesses is not believable. Something more happened.

I think there are things on both sides of the story that just don't seem to add up. But what I'm wondering is, with this happening just outside the police station, isn't there any CCTV footage of the incident? Nothing that I have read makes any mention of video.

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/29/2013 10:05:32 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

We need to consider the source of that article as well. This smells of some gun-sociopath going off on the cops. It will be interesting to see what turns up in the investigation.

Reply to this is on another thread

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4553820/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm#4555016

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/30/2013 8:19:39 AM

slavekate80

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Something smells fishy here. There might not be any way to be sure of what really went down, at least before the trial, but I'm guessing (and I could be very wrong) that the EMT screwed up and he did react violently. Then the police reacted and over-reacted.

For them to pepper spray and arrest both men for absolutely no reason would be stupid to the point that it stretches believability. I could easily believe, though, that they reacted more strongly than necessary to a fairly small threat, exercising poor judgment.

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/30/2013 2:18:08 PM

eulero83

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

FR

I usually spent time saying that police shuld not use violence so lightly, but in this case I see all the reson to act, a person was down for a firearm wound and no person outside the family was involved, so it could be an accident but also a domestic violence case, as someone said in a post above how did she got the gun? because if it was her father's or her brother's I don't know how they could have released them so quickly, in that case the owner of the gun is responsible of manslaughter for how I see it as failed in properly guard his weapon... or is there no law about it in the usa?

I answer to myself as I read some of the article and made a different opinion

The situation was tense for sure, there was a person down for a gunshot so I'd understand for police to be more reactive, even if it looked like a sucide there could be a murderer in that group of people, and due to the high stress of that situation there was an actual risk that a minimal problem could degenerate quickly. If I were the father and someone didn't pay attention to the body of my daughter while transporting her to the ambulance I'd go ballistic and only a teser would calm me down. What I think was unnecessary is the arrest and the charges of assoult, for sure one of the relatives had to be interrogated about how that gun happened to be in the hands of a teenager, and if it was owned by a family member than he is responsible of failing in the custody of the weapon, I don't know how it work in the usa about this and what are the responsibility of a gun owner.
Keeping the order was one of the reasons police was there but I don't understand all this hiding behind protocols and why this protocols are always to hit the hardest way possible any insubordination case.

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/30/2013 2:56:23 PM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekate80
Something smells fishy here. There might not be any way to be sure of what really went down, at least before the trial, but I'm guessing (and I could be very wrong) that the EMT screwed up and he did react violently. Then the police reacted and over-reacted.

For them to pepper spray and arrest both men for absolutely no reason would be stupid to the point that it stretches believability. I could easily believe, though, that they reacted more strongly than necessary to a fairly small threat, exercising poor judgment.

There is no evidence to support that the EMT screwed up. How do you fix a self inflected gunshot wound to the head five to ten minutes AFTER the event? The EMT only has so much knowledge and the contents in his bag/ambulance. That girl needed a miracle to survive, not an ER! So why blame the EMT? He looked at the injury for what it was: fatal. An I suspect the family grew more threatening and violent when they understand there was nothing the EMT could do for them and lashed out. And they did this in front of a police station with police officers present. So using pepper spray after the family members attacked the EMT was well justified.

I am trying to understand why people are focus on the events LONG after the primary event took place. The reason for all the other events to take place, is due to some 16 year old girl acquiring a firearm and shooting herself to death. How did she get the firearm? What was going on with this girl before this event? How was her life at school, in the area, her health (physical, mental, emotional). Was there conflict within her household? Dare I say, did she state she was a lesbian and her family wasn't mature enough to accept it? There are hundreds of questions to be asked here. Why are they not being answered?

If the father and son explained in court that they are sorry for attacking the EMT and/or police officers. Expressing they were in the midst of anguish, suffering, and wanting to help their injured family member. That their rage over took all sense of understanding of laws. And declared they are guilty. I as a judge would be pretty damn lenient on the penalty if any. They have suffered more than any penalty of any law on the books right now. But they have to be the adults to understand and express it. I would hold any decent lawyer worth their law degree would point this out. Or that they have some wise friends, neighbors or even holy people to help them deal with grief of loosing someone dear enough to express it .

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RE: police keep family from dying daughter - 9/30/2013 5:05:40 PM

slavekate80

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What I meant was that the EMT apparently didn't handle the gurney correctly, not that he was responsible in any way for the girl's death.

And yes, it's also possible that the man and his son were being violent to the point that it was necessary to use force to hold them back. We really don't know yet. I'm just saying that the situation as presented by the girl's family makes no sense, and they weren't as well-behaved as they claim. The cops were almost certainly responding to a real threat from them. Whether that threat was enough to justify hauling them off to the police station is still unknown.

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