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egern -> RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? (10/8/2013 1:37:46 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
I never said that was my definition, I said there were corollaries between the boss/employee relationship and the dom/sub one. In both instances a person submits to a higher authority, either b/c they will receive a paycheck, or for other rewards, which may very well be emotional ones.
There have been some who say I could never sub to a person who subbed to someone else, and I was pointing out that we all do that to some extent in our lives. The huge difference is, when you sub to your boss, it probably won't turn you on. Certainly the rewards are different. But it both cases it is a choice. I choose to work for boss x to get a paycheck, or I don't. If I don't I will go hungry unless I find another boss willing to pay me.
When you say the nurse is not subbing to the doctor just doing their job, a huge part of their job is doing what the doc says. If they are unsure what to do, they call the doc. The doc is the authority. That's like saying subs don't do as they are told, they just do their sub job.
Sure, some need less telling than others, just as some nurses will need less oversight than others. The nurse agrees to a position of subordination in order to earn a paycheck. The sub agrees to a position of subordination in order to get <fill in the blank here> since what inspires one sub will not inspire another.
I find the corollaries obvious, but I can accept others do not.
I find this discussion interesting, and as you say, it hangs on the definition of the word.
Can you tell what your definition of submitting is? I read it as you make no distinction between bdsm situations and situations in daily life, for want of a better word. When I look up submission in a dictionary, I find there is always an element of being forced implied in the word, unless you talk about handing in some papers or something like that. And that is how I have always understood the word, except in bdsm, where subs choose to submit.
That is why, in daily life, I can only understand 'submission' if it is enforced or coerced.
For instance, as I said a thief stopped by the police may submit to being arrested, or may resist arrest in which case that person has not submitted, but has to be taken by force.
But a person doing their jobs on instructions from a boss is not submitting, I find that use of the word to be too superficial. If the employee was asked to do something illegal, and was coerced into doing it, you could say he/she submitted to those decisions. Otherwise, in my eyes, no.
When you say the nurse is not subbing to the doctor just doing their job, a huge part of their job is doing what the doc says. If they are unsure what to do, they call the doc. The doc is the authority. That's like saying subs don't do as they are told, they just do their sub job.
The reason I do not think the nurses are submitting to the doctors is that they do not have to be coerced into doing what they do. They do it because it is their job. Calling for instructions is not submitting either, I just can't see it.
A sub may be doing a 'sub job' if they have been instructed to do something, but that does not mean that they are not submitting all the time. They choose to take orders in a voluntarily defined power imbalance, thus submitting in the bdsm sense of the word, which to me is different from the real life definition of the word, just as slave is different in bdsm due to its voluntary nature, while in the world outside it is anything but.
I think I understand where you are coming from, though, in that you cannot always be a boss in all situations of your life. There are plenty of situations where someone else take the decisions, and that is natural in complex societies with a lot of specialization involved.
But because I see submission as surrender to a higher or stronger force, I cannot see everyday situations like that.
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