RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage

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MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 8:48:07 PM)
One thing that isn't being addressed is that those interested in kink ARE in the extreme minority - and as you all know, Dommes are rare indeed. A vanilla wife isn't likely to embrace this, no matter how she's approached. Just as you feel entitled to your interest in kink and want her to explore with you or allow you to explore elsewhere, she no doubt feels she's entitled to NOT be interested in kink and have no interest in exploring with you and no interest in allowing you to be with another woman. And frankly, you're fooling yourself if you think there are no sexual elements to BDSM. It's already affecting your family because of your serving online - she's noticed, and disapproves. You've chosen to not honor her disapproval and to continue your exploration. Honestly, I feel like you're looking for permission or validation for going against your wife's desires to explore elsewhere with BDSM. Is it really worth ending your marriage over it? Only you can answer that.

cloudboy -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 9:05:22 PM)
Just some general thoughts. 1. Its difficult to reverse from monogamous marriage into poly. The beginning of that process is feeling out what you want and need and putting certain things into play in your marriage. IMO, you have somewhat effectively taken these first two steps. 2. I generally regard the advice of converting your long time vanilla spouse into a Domme as idiotic. 3. You cannot really classify yourself as a slave when you are married, ironically, because you are not free to be one. 4. There are several pre-existing threads or being married and having extra marital needs. Use the search function. 5. See what you can negotiate. Go from there. You will have to deal with jealousy and possession issues and maybe religious ones too. 6. Welcome to the world of middle age realizations while being stuck with 20-something (yrs old) decisions you made long ago. 7. Welcome to the beauty of "loving" the rest of your life monogamy. Some people see this as some sort of romantic icon. I see it as a rather damaging and urealistic ideal. 8. Because backward poly in a Marriage is difficult to achieve, you may have to resort to invisible poly or a don't ask - don't tell agreement.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 10:34:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO Don't get me started. Really. I find it sad (and I empathize w/you) that your wife cannot understand this - I wonder if it has occurred to her that doesn't help the situation resolve, although she does have a right to state her side of things. You haven't heard true quality whining until you've heard my whining on this topic. I will, in the name of saving time, give you my Bottom Line on this (forgive me, I was a business major in school): I would honestly tell her how not being able to pursue this side of yourself makes you feel, and ask for her help. Ask her this: "What would you do if you were me"? I'd be interested to know the answer to that. Tell her you are not trying to break up or destroy your marriage and that you do care about her. Why is she against it ?- why can't she give it a try? -isn't marriage about "give and take"? You are not a "pervert". When all else fails, no matter how "dishonorable" it feels or looks, who can really blame you if you "cheated"? I cheated. Eventually I felt guilty (but it took about a year). Or, declare yourself a polyamorist. There is nothing "wrong" with polyamory - it is a different approach to intimate relationships and really seems to work for many, I've seen from reading these boards, (it also seems like it can require much dedication, but nobody gets a "free ride" I guess - unless they are simply looking for "-ck buddies, which is okay too I suppose). I am not trying to sway you - just saying there are options out there you can contemplate. Good luck. -Susan No offense meant to your advice Susan, the truth is I agree with all of it...unfortunately there are some people who will never understand this lifestyle other than to agree that it's sick, perverted and disgusting. They see it (doing this/acting it out/being at all involved in it in any fashion) as taking away from what they have already....not in fact what it is, what it would do....that being add such fabulous dimension (and in the case of a woman who can't grasp the whole domination thing...that it would literally provide them with a mate that would eagerly do every thing they've always been so frustrated at not being able to get their mate to do for them). I've been in this guys shoes. Past tense intended. I tried the education gambit, I tried the soft approach...eventually I tried the tough love of moving out because I was sooooooooooo unhappy. I treated her like a Princess....she had no wants in life...her friends often called on any given day...not just her birthday or our anniversary...simply to ask, and in constant amazement "so what did he do for you today?". My wedding proposal made the front page of the local paper... On my honeymoon, I was accused of being a pervert. My crime? I wanted to do it in a hottub. With my wife. At 3 in the morning. Next to a beach...that I had rented out so that it was just her and I. Really. I wouldn't suggest going out and finding it elsewhere, but that's just because I have strong beliefs about the whole commitment thing. I don't judge anyone that doesn't carry the same beliefs I have on that score, but I couldn't do it. I would suggest however, if he and she can't come to terms on this subject, to figure out what's more important to him...being miserable and keeping his vows, or finding happiness and doing the right thing...before he does the wrong thing. I stayed married for 10 years, miserable every single day. It was the longest 38 years of my life. Some people don't get it. Some never will. I've seen this movie. It has a shitty ending if the script doesn't change. Dats my advice.

feastie -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 10:57:42 PM)
fast reply You're already putting your wife, whom you claim to love, in a position of having to choose. It's not she that must choose. She's told you that she's not interested. Your choice very simply boils down to this: You accept your wife's refusal and continue your vanilla life. You reject your wife's refusal; pursue slavery. That will mean a divorce and the possible loss of custody of your children, up to supervised vistation with your children, depending on whether your interests are dragged into court. A great relationship stops being great when one's interests become more important than the love for one's partner.

Aneirin -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 7:39:11 AM)
CS,I can sympathise with your situation,I do have some experience of this myself,and the hurt it causes for both sides.My situation was where my partner wanted nothing to do with 'perversion' and went as far as to suggest the marriage was over if I wanted to pursue my interests.Now the marriage is over,in an attempt to recover what has been lost,my wife is now saying she will do these 'things',but I feel the damage has been done,she at the time failed to allow me to grow within the marriage.I tried everything,but the interest was not there,I fail to see how it can suddenly be of interest to her and see this as an act of desparation on her part,but I need to be me. What advice can I give,I do not know,but you have to be yourself,become all that you may be else living unfulfilled and unhappy in yourself,sure you can appear happy to others outwardly,inwardly,I have been there and it is not nice.You have options I am sure you have thought of yourself,and what others have written about,but in the end it will be down to you.Good Luck

proudsub -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 8:20:57 AM)
(fast reply) It might help to pretend you are her submissive by serving her in every way around the house and yard, whether she recognizes it or not. As for sex, fantacizing goes a long ways. If you are into pain you can do some of that while masturbating and fantacizing. I know it's not the same as receiving it from a partner but it's better than nothing. When i introduced Hubby to this way of life we watched a lot of videos and read web sites and he slowly realized there are a lot of people doing this and it really wasn't that wierd. Now things are going pretty well. I think she should have an open enough mind to at least be willing to learn and try a few things. But you can't make a domme out of someone not interested. JMHO

sublizzie -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 8:26:04 AM)
It might also help to give her time. I know it's difficult to be patient when you aren't getting anything that you want, but she may just need some time to wrap her head around the idea. Not just a week or month, but some goodly amount of time to read and research on her own....maybe with a few hints from you? You didn't come to this realization over night. It may take her some time to adjust her thinking.

ArtimisBlack -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 11:14:06 AM)
CrappyDom, you had some really good points. To the OP: Infidelity is a deal breaker unless you have an open relationship no matter how kinky the couple might otherwise be. I've heard about these extreme "You're a pervert" reactions, though luckily I have never experienced them myself, but it does make me wonder.......Is your wife simply reacting to the BDSM acronym without understanding what it really is that you want? Speaking of which, what is it, really, that you want? Judging by your screen-name, it would seem that you like being controlled. Instead of a "Honey I want to do more kink/bdsm/etc." type conversation, maybe it would help her to understand if you were specific about what exactly it is that you want- it's usually also less scary sounding. Also you might want to consider if you need to have your kinkier wants filled in their full spectrum or if you would be happy getting a few of them, but not all. Your wife might not want to become what she sees as a full blown Dom, but she may have no trouble displaying Dom like behavior such as being the authority in the relationship (which it sounds like she already is). All this really goes back to what you want and what needs of yours, exactly, she is not fulfilling. Be specific and be prepared to define your priorities.

ClassAct2006 -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 11:32:11 AM)
Lots of issues. We can live without sex and she probably isn't withholding sex, simply not prepared to do it in the way that satisfies your kink. Some women will put themselves out to help with a particular fetish because both partners in a relationship should be trying to please the other. But if you're really innately submissive and always have been and she isn't the dynamic is never going to be right. That still isn't grounds to break up the marriage or commit adultery whether in the flesh or mind. Whether you have children today is obviously very relevant too. When I was 20 and getting to know my ex husband I made absolutely clear he knew how submissive I was. I thought but I was wrong that he could and would dominate me. He was keen enough to try spanking, handcuffs on me etc but I didn't when I was 21 and we married know that that was token dominance and it didn't continue but that didn't mean I opted out of the marriage. I stayed and did what I'd promised to do until it broke up 20 years later for other reasons. You could satisfy yourself with reading material only or get her agreement that you see a professional (much less maritally threatening than an affair) or go to counselling yourself or with her or persuade her to do some of the things you like or just live with it You could leave her and end up not finding anyone anyway and just be much worse off all round.

LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 11:54:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ControlledSlave Hello everyone. I would appreciate some advice or feedback about my situation. I cannot describe it in its entirety, so if there is anything you have a question about, feel free to ask. I have had interests in bdsm for many years. I have also been married for many years. My relationship is "vanilla" - great sex, and I am monogamous. I have never done anything sexual in bdsm play, at least in terms of fluid exchange, anal, worship, etc. I woujld consider myself somewhat experienced with bdsm scenes, but I am getting more into the idea of being a slave to a domme. I am trying it online right now. My wife thinks that bdsm is weird, and that people who engage in it are weird. She thinks that my pursuit of it means that I don't love her, or that our relationship is invalid in some way. I was pretty shocked to hear this because I am a loving husband and father who gives of himself tremendously. Of course by default. her claim means that I am weird! I have tried a number of times to talk with her about it. Recently she brought it up because she suspected me of how much time I am online (I am serving someone online right now - not in person). I told her that I have been talking to people about bdsm and am trying to learn more about it. It's part of me, I told her, and I want to engage in it. I tried telling her that people from all walks of life are engaged in it. Doctors, lawyers, PhDs...you name it. "It's sexual" she says. She said I am trying to put a Bill Clinton type definition on bdsm activities. I told her its about temporary power exchange and spanking - that's my thing. The "problem" I am having with this is that in my view of marriage, you support one another's interests and needs. But I am in a situation where my wife says she will not do bdsm, she doesn't want me talkting to others about bdsm, and she doesn't want me doing bdsm. I feel like I have been backed into a corner. I think of myself as submissive, but I also think I am tiring of being denied who I really am. I think I should put my foot down and say that I am going to do this, and then deal with the consequences, but I worry about the effects this will have on my family. I have three teenagers. Advice? I would guess that it's not necessarily the BDSM that your wife is worried about, but the idea that you are pursuing something with another woman. Even if it's not in real life, your time is taken up with communicating with another woman, and your wife has noticed this. If you feel that your submissive nature is something that you can not live without, you need to explain that to her. If you put your foot down, it sounds like your relationship is going to continue to deteriorate even more. Perhaps you can explain your need for it in terms that she might be able to understand better by comparing it to some aspect of her personality that is vital to her. Maybe find out what she finds "weird" about it. The fact is, she is fidning out that you are a different person than she initially thought, and that is not easy to deal with. She has a right to not like BDSM, and if that is the case, you will need to decide how much you "need" it. Be well, Julie

AAkasha -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 1:48:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW I've been in this guys shoes. Past tense intended. I tried the education gambit, I tried the soft approach...eventually I tried the tough love of moving out because I was sooooooooooo unhappy. I treated her like a Princess....she had no wants in life...her friends often called on any given day...not just her birthday or our anniversary...simply to ask, and in constant amazement "so what did he do for you today?". My wedding proposal made the front page of the local paper... On my honeymoon, I was accused of being a pervert. My crime? I wanted to do it in a hottub. With my wife. At 3 in the morning. Next to a beach...that I had rented out so that it was just her and I. Really. How do you end up married with someone so sexually prudish though? Were there not strong indicators that she was a prude in bed and you would have problems later because you have a more adventurous appetite? Or when you had the talks, 'wouldn't it be really exciting to have sex in a hot tub?' she said "ohh YES!! I would LOVE that!" and it was a major bait and switch? As for the references that you treated her like a princess and her friends called up and asked what did you do for her, that's just lame. It is proof that no money in the world can make a lady happy -- it comes from passion and mutual love. Women don't "need" stuff to fill up their life to feel complete and content -- if they do, there's something wrong with them. At the same time, if you think that colors the "ideal" dream relationship, then you are just as guilty. "Stuff" does not make a marriage great. Being best friends does. Akasha

AAkasha -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 2:08:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ControlledSlave Hello everyone. I would appreciate some advice or feedback about my situation. I cannot describe it in its entirety, so if there is anything you have a question about, feel free to ask. I have had interests in bdsm for many years. I have also been married for many years. My relationship is "vanilla" - great sex, and I am monogamous. I have never done anything sexual in bdsm play, at least in terms of fluid exchange, anal, worship, etc. I woujld consider myself somewhat experienced with bdsm scenes, but I am getting more into the idea of being a slave to a domme. I am trying it online right now. My wife thinks that bdsm is weird, and that people who engage in it are weird. She thinks that my pursuit of it means that I don't love her, or that our relationship is invalid in some way. I was pretty shocked to hear this because I am a loving husband and father who gives of himself tremendously. Well, a few things come to mind. First, your wife is right. BDSM is weird. People into BDSM are weird. The entire ridiculous notion of people causing pain, humiliating each other, guys crawling around and acting ridiculously humiliated, licking of boots, those silly and uncomfortable outfits, freaks on Jerry Springer, "spanking" to get a hard on --weird, weird, WEIRD! I am agreeing with your wife, and yet I am hardblooded kinky as hell; I do not recall a time in my life that I did not eroticize the idea of male helplessness. I found it sexy and alluring. I found it to be exciting and fun. Then I learned about "kinky sex" and "S&M" and I thought "what a bunch of freaks!". I knew what I was into, but I certainly was not into that. Because face it, as an outsider looking in, BDSM is riddled with fruits, weirdos, wackos and people doing messy,. weird, and NOT sexy/erotic things. I believe that most "vanilla" women, when introduced to the idea of "kinky sex" of the BDSM flavor, will cringe and pull away. Because what is it? The stereotypes that come to mind are laughable. The ridiculous costumes, the melodrama, the codes, the roleplaying, the people that are portrayed as into it. My reaction was the same to this, yet I am hardwired to be into it. Once I realized how it was from the inside it all started to make sense. Of course, your wife isn't hardwired to be into S&M. However, she loves you (presumably). You CAN reach a compromise with her if the following are true: 1. You really do want to submit to her. You have not already resigned yourself to the exciting concept that your submission will be to another woman - even if only online. You actually are aroused imaginging your WIFE dominating you. 2. You have not cheated on your wife or she has not caught you in a lie; she still has faith in you that you will remain true to her. 3. You can completely eliminate all your expectations regarding submission. This includes throwing away the porn, the toys, the fantasy material and even getting offline if she chooses. 4. You can give her space and time to explore her OWN flavor of dominance. All women have it. It just has to be ignited. The reality is, though, I can promise you it is NOT a match-up of your fantasy; however, it is real. 5. Your sex life, while vanilla, is exciting and vibrant. You can't try to fix a crappy sex life by adding kink; if you are still; sexually active and she is orgasming and finds pleasure in sex, you are in a much better place. Every woman has enjoyed, at some time in her life, the romantic notion that her man is willing to suffer for her, to be brave for her, to have his pride tweaked a little for her. Usually this is when she is young. You have to recapture that curoisity. As for how to do it, I could write a book about it, and practically have. I will add that dozens, if not hundreds of women have written to me who were "previously vanilla" and frustrated with what they thought was a husband who was a kinky freak. They just had to look at it without the stereotypes. And that starts with YOU. Akasha

Veryfewcan -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 2:58:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ControlledSlave Hello everyone. I would appreciate some advice or feedback about my situation. I cannot describe it in its entirety, so if there is anything you have a question about, feel free to ask. I have had interests in bdsm for many years. I have also been married for many years. My relationship is "vanilla" - great sex, and I am monogamous. I have never done anything sexual in bdsm play, at least in terms of fluid exchange, anal, worship, etc. I woujld consider myself somewhat experienced with bdsm scenes, but I am getting more into the idea of being a slave to a domme. I am trying it online right now. My wife thinks that bdsm is weird, and that people who engage in it are weird. She thinks that my pursuit of it means that I don't love her, or that our relationship is invalid in some way. I was pretty shocked to hear this because I am a loving husband and father who gives of himself tremendously. Of course by default. her claim means that I am weird! I have tried a number of times to talk with her about it. Recently she brought it up because she suspected me of how much time I am online (I am serving someone online right now - not in person). I told her that I have been talking to people about bdsm and am trying to learn more about it. It's part of me, I told her, and I want to engage in it. I tried telling her that people from all walks of life are engaged in it. Doctors, lawyers, PhDs...you name it. "It's sexual" she says. She said I am trying to put a Bill Clinton type definition on bdsm activities. I told her its about temporary power exchange and spanking - that's my thing. The "problem" I am having with this is that in my view of marriage, you support one another's interests and needs. But I am in a situation where my wife says she will not do bdsm, she doesn't want me talkting to others about bdsm, and she doesn't want me doing bdsm. I feel like I have been backed into a corner. I think of myself as submissive, but I also think I am tiring of being denied who I really am. I think I should put my foot down and say that I am going to do this, and then deal with the consequences, but I worry about the effects this will have on my family. I have three teenagers. Advice To be a submissive man, doesn't mean there has to be BDSM involved. It is a state of mind. Try showing her your submissive side in daily life. Open doors for her. Do the cooking, cleaning, etc. To assure her, introduce her to chastity; for you of course. That has nothing to do with BDSM. Be a good man and stop wasting your time being an online slave.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 3:14:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha You actually are aroused imaginging your WIFE dominating you. Ya know...AAkasha makes a GREAT point here!!!! This might be the avenue to approach. Explain to your wife that the pleasure you get from your outside sources (internet/magazines, etc.) are from the very fact that you envision this happening in your home, with your wife, in a loving manner. It's gonna be a tough sales job, but if you can get through to her that you really ARE fantasizing about HER when this stuff occurs to you, you might have an easier slog at it. You don't have to tell her that it embitters you over time to do it with fantasy women, wishing it were your wife....hit her with the positives...maybe she'll figure out that this wall between you grows solely because you want it to be her, and her animus about the concept is hurting both of you (and certainly not benefitting her).

LTRsubNW -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 3:26:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha quote: ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW I've been in this guys shoes. Past tense intended. I tried the education gambit, I tried the soft approach...eventually I tried the tough love of moving out because I was sooooooooooo unhappy. I treated her like a Princess....she had no wants in life...her friends often called on any given day...not just her birthday or our anniversary...simply to ask, and in constant amazement "so what did he do for you today?". My wedding proposal made the front page of the local paper... On my honeymoon, I was accused of being a pervert. My crime? I wanted to do it in a hottub. With my wife. At 3 in the morning. Next to a beach...that I had rented out so that it was just her and I. Really. How do you end up married with someone so sexually prudish though? (Love is blind, we were young, we both agreed {because of her religious upbringing} to stay celibate prior to our marriage, and yes, I was entirely clear {with her} on what I wanted, and she insisted "it'll be the best you ever had". Unfortunately she was from a holy roller family, she didn't truly know what she was committing to, I thought she was cognizent...it didn't work. Sometimes that happens). As it turned out, we later discovered that her mother was raped by her own father for 4 years (a pastor) and my (ex)sister in law is convinced my ex was molested as a child as well (hence, my wife's upbringing had some corrupting issues that all of us had been unaware of and 8 years of counseling couldn't resolve). ...that's just lame. It is proof that no money in the world can make a lady happy -- it comes from passion and mutual love. Women don't "need" stuff to fill up their life to feel complete and content -- if they do, there's something wrong with them. At the same time, if you think that colors the "ideal" dream relationship, then you are just as guilty. "Stuff" does not make a marriage great. Being best friends does. Can't argue with that in the slightest AAkasha. In fact, she wrote me a 9 page letter during our divorce extolling not only the fact that she hadn't been mine (best friend), that I had been hers in every instance and that she was sorry for everything. Today her own brothers won't allow her in their homes without supervision, she married a man a few years later who was arrested for exposing himself to a 13 year old girl (and very typically, things came full circle as they often do) and I'm still the Executor of the estate of one of them...Uncle to all. As to the "Stuff doesn't make a great marriage"....once again, I can't disagree. You assume I tried to buy her happiness. Nothing could be further from the truth (and I never said that's what I did). We were broke back then. Actually we would have had to have borrowed a couple grand just to BE broke, but it never stopped me from surprising her with rose petals that I tore off of 20 roses by hand hours before she got home, layed like a Hansel and Gretel trail leading into the bedroom after a long day of work for her (she worked on her feet and always had sore feet) where the sheets were cleaned and turned down...and I was there waiting with heated lotions and soft towels to give her a 3 hour massage "just because". Or cooking a 5 course dinner for her (and trust me, I SUCK at cooking...so the very fact that I cooked for her made it in her eyes a delicious meal) and hundreds of other things over many years. That's why her freinds called. Not because I was a human ATM. (Never assume).

Misstoyou -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 5:31:50 PM)
This is what the OP wrote on 7/1: quote: ORIGINAL: ControlledSlave Lucky: I accept that other will judge what I am doing as cheating, but I think that an online situation is a good, safe first step for me. Without this experience, I might forge ahead with some half-baked plan about what it means to be a slave without any experience at all. It's not the same as realtime, and I cannot make a 100% commitment toi it, but I can learn something about myself. Thank you for sharing your opinion. I wish you well. CS This is what the OP has on his profile on 7/2: "My Mistress has directed me to find a lifestyle Mistress to help me with my training. Because of the physical distance between us, she would like to hear from a lifestyle Mistress who would be willing to carry out discipline and punishments that she cannot give me in person. She has no problem lending me out for this purpose. If you are interested,and you enjoy giving corporal punishment, please drop me a quick note so that my owner will get in touch with you to discuss my training." So while he requested "some advice or feedback", it appears he has decided which way he's going.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 5:53:09 PM)
quote: So while he requested "some advice or feedback", it appears he has decided which way he's going. Hmmmm....suddenly I feel used.

TolerableCruelty -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/2/2006 5:58:53 PM)
and not in the good way, huh ?

LTRsubNW -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/4/2006 3:45:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TolerableCruelty and not in the good way, huh ? And no one was nekkid dammit!

findmedaddy -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/4/2006 4:03:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW. I stayed married for 10 years, miserable every single day. It was the longest 38 years of my life. Some people don't get it. Some never will. I've seen this movie. It has a shitty ending if the script doesn't change. Dats my advice. I wish I didn't agree, but I do. I had this discussion on some of the old Delphi forums a few years ago. I kept trying to figure out why I couldn't just put this part of me aside, since my husband thought I was "sick," and since his needs in our relationship were at least as important as mine. But I couldn't. And, combined with other things, it was enough to make me walk away. I couldn't be married to someone who didn't accept this in me. I'm alone now, and looking (I was just beginning to act on my feelings as a submissive when I cut it all off and got married), and very very unhappy sometimes. But I'll never be sorry that I don't live with him anymore. Thank goodness my marriage was as short as it was and there were no kids. I'm sorry this is happening to you. I know how desperate it can make you feel, and I don't think it's as cut-and-dried as some say.

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