So the furloughed workers will get back pay.

So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 4:47:13 AM)
This means that the workers are getting an unscheduled free vacation. Note that in all previous shutdowns, federal workers got paid for missed time AFTER the shutdown was over. Here, they're assured of pay DURING the shutdown. The effect? Well, with the pay up in the air, there was pressure to cut a deal. Now, there's little pain and the pressure's off. The shutdown could drag out a while. Personally, I feel it favors the Republicans. While their primary goal was to cripple Obamacare (which I don't see happening), there was a secondary goal to show that a shut-down government isn't that bad. I.e., that the government could stand to be cut. Why did it happen like this? I heard a rumor that Boehner's Facebook page got swamped with angry messages from federal employees. I suspect that's why. The crazy thing is that we are now not receiving services even though we will be paying for them anyway. This makes the philosophy of the shutdown ridiculous. I'm not sure of the fallout. I suspect that the GOP Tea Party folks will be livid at this, and will urge their GOP Reps to stand firmer on the shutdown fight as a result. Obama OTOH is under no pressure whatsoever as long as the public blames the GOP for the shutdown. The newly vacationing federal workers might even push subtly for an extended shutdown. I expect that the fight will now shift to the court of public opinion. If Obama decides to use his social networks to push his sound bites out (requesting that his followers speak to the undecideds), it should be devastating.

tj444 -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 5:50:51 AM)
I see this as buying future votes.. bribing people with their own collective tax dollars (ok.. I guess technically bribing people with borrowed future tax dollars?.. [:D] ) I tried going to the Census site.. no access to previous info/stats.. why no access??? allowing access to previously collected info has no effect on the shutdown, its not like the info today is being collected so why block "old" info.. it makes no sense to me.. its stupid and so typical of the govt mentality.. just as this furlough but paying them anyway is.. The US govt has not progressed at all since the 1995 shut down.. gridlock.. and R vs D, D vs R.. in a battle to the death.. ugh.. these politicians (both parties) continue to act like children.. I just shake my head.. oh well..

DesideriScuri -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 6:08:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven This means that the workers are getting an unscheduled free vacation. Note that in all previous shutdowns, federal workers got paid for missed time AFTER the shutdown was over. Here, they're assured of pay DURING the shutdown. Did you mean to say that in previous shutdowns, furloughed workers weren't assured of getting back pay until after the shutdown while this time they are being assured of getting back pay before the shutdown is over? The only problem with being assured of back pay, regardless of when it occurs, is that it is still back pay. That is, unless you have the savings to cover the "shut down," you're going to be in a bind until the shutdown is over.

DarkSteven -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 7:11:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven This means that the workers are getting an unscheduled free vacation. Note that in all previous shutdowns, federal workers got paid for missed time AFTER the shutdown was over. Here, they're assured of pay DURING the shutdown. Did you mean to say that in previous shutdowns, furloughed workers weren't assured of getting back pay until after the shutdown while this time they are being assured of getting back pay before the shutdown is over? Exactly. However, my source waffled a bit today - I should have verified. quote: The only problem with being assured of back pay, regardless of when it occurs, is that it is still back pay. That is, unless you have the savings to cover the "shut down," you're going to be in a bind until the shutdown is over. It's a LOT easier floating the money than it is to make it up altogether. You're correct that the pain isn't gone altogether, but it's been reduced a lot.

Phydeaux -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 7:25:33 AM)
Steven, This has all only ever been about the court of public opinion on botht the democrat and republican sides. Obama's second term was dead in the water. Underwater on popularity, and with a dedicated republican opposition that would kill anything in the house and filibuster it in the senate. He needed and wanted to provoke a confrontation with the republicans in order to unite and fire up his side, so he had some hope of policy initiatives happening on his side. Additionally, to avoid crushing defeat in the midterms. Cook had forecast what - the loss of 5 senate seats and a dozen house seats? So conventional wisdom is that the democrats win by even having this fight. Republicans may lose, but it is my hope that if they fall on their swords, at least they fall on their swords to effect. However, Karl Rove may well be right. The smart thing to do would be to not defund anything and vote down after the 2014 election. Being entrenched, in power as the democrats are, is always an advantage. The tea partiers are passionate and inexperienced. They have eaten at the mainstream republicans that would have seasoned them. In my opinion, obama deliberately provoked a shutdown, and the tea party was too willing and too unseasoned to not come to the dance. Now the two parties have to dance this dance and see how it plays out in the court of national opinion. But by bringing it to that court, is already a win for the democrat, and its an arena they do well in.

littlewonder -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 8:05:33 AM)
I can guarantee the federal workers have no desire whatsoever to extend their "paid vacation". They are eager to get back to work and are angry that they are not working, even if they are getting paid.

Owner59 -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 8:11:23 AM)
So if the cons are going to pay the workers and pay the bills themselves to keep the WWII memorial open.....why the fuck are they keeping the place closed down? They are looking sillier by the moment.

littlewonder -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 8:18:16 AM)
To prove some kind of inane point. It's all rather stupid. It's just a game to them.

RacerJim -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 9:49:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder To prove some kind of inane point. It's all rather stupid. It's just a game to them. Truth be told, the one trying to prove his inane point is the one who, as an Illinois State Senator proclaimed the U.S. Constitution an inherently flawed document, then as the Democratic Party nominee for POTUS in 2008 that he intended to fundamentally transform the United States of America and then as POTUS in 2009 that all military personnel (Active Duty, Retired, and Veterans) and their families should pay for their healthcare -- including Wounded Warriors. It's all rather DISHONORABLE and DISPICABLE. It's just a ideological narcissistic game to Obama.

Owner59 -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 10:04:05 AM)
Yeah yeah we know the talking points...Yawn... Why do you think that no ones but the far rightist believes the culprits are not the geopee? Could that not be because the facts, recorded words, actions and conduct of the gop prove that. Or are we failing back on the most impotent of excuses for gop failure...."it`s the media`s fault" God forbid the media should report the news....that would be soooo unfair....[8\|]

Owner59 -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 10:46:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven This means that the workers are getting an unscheduled free vacation. Note that in all previous shutdowns, federal workers got paid for missed time AFTER the shutdown was over. Here, they're assured of pay DURING the shutdown. The effect? Well, with the pay up in the air, there was pressure to cut a deal. Now, there's little pain and the pressure's off. The shutdown could drag out a while. Personally, I feel it favors the Republicans. While their primary goal was to cripple Obamacare (which I don't see happening), there was a secondary goal to show that a shut-down government isn't that bad. I.e., that the government could stand to be cut. Why did it happen like this? I heard a rumor that Boehner's Facebook page got swamped with angry messages from federal employees. I suspect that's why. The crazy thing is that we are now not receiving services even though we will be paying for them anyway. This makes the philosophy of the shutdown ridiculous. I'm not sure of the fallout. I suspect that the GOP Tea Party folks will be livid at this, and will urge their GOP Reps to stand firmer on the shutdown fight as a result. Obama OTOH is under no pressure whatsoever as long as the public blames the GOP for the shutdown. The newly vacationing federal workers might even push subtly for an extended shutdown. I expect that the fight will now shift to the court of public opinion. If Obama decides to use his social networks to push his sound bites out (requesting that his followers speak to the undecideds), it should be devastating. "favors the Republicans" Not really, considering it`s all been quite unnecessary from the beginning.This is a bit like a hostage taker allowing food and water to be given to the hostages.It really doesn`t make them look like nice guys or any less guilty. When has a democrat-controlled H of Rs ever closed down the federal government trying to get things they didn`t or couldn`t through the democratic process? It`s just plain ridiculous. What`s driving them to pay the workers is sheer embarrassment. It`s also an undeniable admission of who it is that`s controlling the shutdown and pulling the levers. The President didn`t shut down the government, he didn`t furlough the work force and he didn`t take away/restore their pay. ALL of those actions are republican actions.

DarkSteven -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 12:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 "favors the Republicans" Owner - I meant that the granting of back pay at this juncture favors the GOP. IMO, the entire shutdown itself is hurting the GOP. The fact that they are proposing solutions already, even though they're lame, while Obama is refusing to compromise, indicates to me that the GOP is getting hammered in the popular polls.

DomKen -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 12:26:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder To prove some kind of inane point. It's all rather stupid. It's just a game to them. Truth be told, the one trying to prove his inane point is the one who, as an Illinois State Senator proclaimed the U.S. Constitution an inherently flawed document, then as the Democratic Party nominee for POTUS in 2008 that he intended to fundamentally transform the United States of America and then as POTUS in 2009 that all military personnel (Active Duty, Retired, and Veterans) and their families should pay for their healthcare -- including Wounded Warriors. It's all rather DISHONORABLE and DISPICABLE. It's just a ideological narcissistic game to Obama. The Constitution is inherently flawed. Look at how the situation in the Legislative branch has fallen apart. Simply having better terminology on Congressional districts would have prevented the present problems. The US needs to be inherently transformed back to the functional middle class society that Reagan and his scumbag allies/owners destroyed. As to the last claim, it appears it is a distortion of a plan briefly considered that would have charged veterans private insurance, when they had it, for treatment delivered by the VA. Not something I'd support but not the lie told above.

DOM68005 -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 12:41:48 PM)
Let's be fair about our current SNAFU government ... There is plenty of valid blame to go around for the past 50+ years. True representative has been non existent for decades. ================ Government health care systems of all varieties have required beneficiaries file information on other insurance held by them for over a decade and billed the other insurance for services rendered. I have the paperwork to back up what I stated n this paragraph. The health care promises made to our WWII and Viet Nam era vets have been broken repeatedly. My Dad's experience is a perfect example of this.

DesideriScuri -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 3:53:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 When has a democrat-controlled H of Rs ever closed down the federal government trying to get things they didn`t or couldn`t through the democratic process? It`s just plain ridiculous. Yeah. Ridiculous. Whodathunk the HoR's would do such a thing? Apparently, the Founders... quote: The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure. But will not the House of Representatives be as much interested as the Senate in maintaining the government in its proper functions, and will they not therefore be unwilling to stake its existence or its reputation on the pliancy of the Senate? Or, if such a trial of firmness between the two branches were hazarded, would not the one be as likely first to yield as the other? These questions will create no difficulty with those who reflect that in all cases the smaller the number, and the more permanent and conspicuous the station, of men in power, the stronger must be the interest which they will individually feel in whatever concerns the government.

Owner59 -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 4:01:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Steven, This has all only ever been about the court of public opinion on botht the democrat and republican sides. Obama's second term was dead in the water. Underwater on popularity, and with a dedicated republican opposition that would kill anything in the house and filibuster it in the senate. He needed and wanted to provoke a confrontation with the republicans in order to unite and fire up his side, so he had some hope of policy initiatives happening on his side. Additionally, to avoid crushing defeat in the midterms. Cook had forecast what - the loss of 5 senate seats and a dozen house seats? So conventional wisdom is that the democrats win by even having this fight. Republicans may lose, but it is my hope that if they fall on their swords, at least they fall on their swords to effect. However, Karl Rove may well be right. The smart thing to do would be to not defund anything and vote down after the 2014 election. Being entrenched, in power as the democrats are, is always an advantage. The tea partiers are passionate and inexperienced. They have eaten at the mainstream republicans that would have seasoned them. In my opinion, obama deliberately provoked a shutdown, and the tea party was too willing and too unseasoned to not come to the dance. Now the two parties have to dance this dance and see how it plays out in the court of national opinion. But by bringing it to that court, is already a win for the democrat, and its an arena they do well in. Says the party at less than ten percent and falling..... The President`s numbers are at 40% and rising..... http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/03/fox-news-poll-finds-disapproval-gop-skyrocketing-shut-government.html Fox News Poll Finds Disapproval Of GOP Skyrocketing After They Shut Down Government http://video.foxnews.com/v/2719645091001/poll-voters-say-partial-government-shutdown-is-serious/?playlist_id=928378949001 http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/poll-shutdown-hurting-republicans-in-battleground-districts-20131006 "Poll: Shutdown Hurting Republicans in Battleground Districts House Republicans are already taking a drubbing at home, a new poll of two dozen congressional districts shows"

tj444 -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/6/2013 4:05:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder To prove some kind of inane point. It's all rather stupid. It's just a game to them. its really a technical problem.. [:D] [image]local://upfiles/965197/CB2D298E8F8649F1A6BD0295709C32BE.jpg[/image]

kalikshama -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/7/2013 12:29:15 PM)
quote: I can guarantee the federal workers have no desire whatsoever to extend their "paid vacation". They are eager to get back to work and are angry that they are not working, even if they are getting paid. My man's brother is a federal employee and was also on Family Medical Leave last week. He was still working via phone quite a bit.

graceadieu -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/7/2013 1:27:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven This means that the workers are getting an unscheduled free vacation. Note that in all previous shutdowns, federal workers got paid for missed time AFTER the shutdown was over. Here, they're assured of pay DURING the shutdown. Well, they still won't get paid until after the shutdown is over. Now they just have some peace of mind and can go to their landlord, credit card company, etc and say "hey look, Congress says I'll get paid, please give me an extension". quote: The crazy thing is that we are now not receiving services even though we will be paying for them anyway. This makes the philosophy of the shutdown ridiculous. Right. The whole thing is a huge waste of taxpayer money. Let's pay people to not provide services, because we're having a shit-fit over a law we don't like.

mnottertail -> RE: So the furloughed workers will get back pay. (10/7/2013 1:29:01 PM)
Wait up, it aint over till the fat lady sings, gotta pass the Senate yet, and get signed.

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