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RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 10:08:26 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Putting aside (1) Obamacare is the Law, (2) Passed by THE HOUSE AND SENATE, (3) Upheld by the US SUPREME COURT and (4) Reaffirmed in a mandate with the wholesale rejection of Mitt Romney's platform of repeal...

Since John Boehner reneged on the deal cut to fund the government at Sequestration levels, why would anyone believe he'd keep his word on anything else going forward?

Putting aside (1) Obama said "It's the law", (2) Obama doesn't have the authority to unilaterally change the law, (3) Obama has unilaterally granted delays and exemptions/waivers, (4) Obama ran as far and as fast away from Obamacare as he could during the 2012 election and (5) Every national poll conducted on Obmacare during the past couple years has proven "We the people..." don't want it...

Since Obama reneged on his campaign promise to (1) Have Congressional hearings and votes on Obamacare televised live, (2) Have the proposed Obamacare legislation posted on the White House web-site for three days PRIOR to Congress voting on it, (3) Withdraw all of our troops from Iraq before the end of his first year in office, (4) Close Gitmo before the end of his first term...

"You will be able to keep your doctor. PERIOD!"...
"You will be able to keep your healthcare plan. PERIOD!"...

“Look, I’m at the start of my administration. One nice thing about the situation I find myself in is that I will be held accountable. You know, I’ve got four years. A year from now I think people are going to see that we’re starting to make some progress. But there’s still going to be some pain out there. If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.” -- Barack Hussein Obama, The Today Show, February 1, 2009

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 10:12:15 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:


(2) Obama doesn't have the authority to unilaterally change the law, (3) Obama has unilaterally granted delays and exemptions/waivers, (4) Obama ran as far and as fast away from Obamacare as he could during the 2012 election and (5) Every national poll conducted on Obmacare during the past couple years has proven "We the people..." don't want it...


All untrue and beyond just perfunctory asswipe. . .

quote:


(3) Withdraw all of our troops from Iraq before the end of his first year in office, (4) Close Gitmo before the end of his first term...


These were confounded by the teabaggers in the congress.



And pretty much typical teabagger blowholing.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 10:12:23 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		"Democrats do it, too."

Could you give us some examples of democrats, extorting what they wanted by shutting down the government?


Or democrats threatening harm to innocent Americans to get what they could not achieve through the democratic process?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/8/2013 10:14:20 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to slavekate80)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 12:03:50 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Democrats do it, too."

Could you give us some examples of democrats, extorting what they wanted by shutting down the government?


Thank you.

Though, I think Republicans should be concerned about this happening in the future. If they successfully pull off this hostage-taking tactic this time, it sets a very bad precedent. Who's to say that the next time the political situation is reversed, that the Democrats won't do the same thing? (Now, Democrats, because of their political beliefs, have more of a vested interest in having a functioning government.... but that doesn't guarantee anything.)

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 1:32:35 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Copy of text of email sent to my congressman, a republican.

quote:

you republicans cant get over the fact that the Affordable Health Care Act... has the support of the majority of Americans

 
Poll: Obamacare remains highly unpopular as implementation looms

A large number of Americans continue to adamantly oppose the nation’s new health-care law and believe it will produce damaging results, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

Forty-four percent of respondents call the health-care law a bad idea, while 31 percent believe it's a good idea -- virtually unchanged from July's NBC/WSJ survey. By a 45 percent to 23 percent margin, Americans say it will have a negative impact on the country's health-care system rather than a positive one.

CNN Poll: Majority of Americans Oppose Obamacare

A majority of Americans oppose the healthcare legislative centerpiece of Barack Obama’s presidency...
 
Fifty-four percent of those polled oppose Obamacare, while 43 percent of those polled say they support the law as it stands. Both numbers are relatively unchanged since the bill was passed in 2010. Of those polled, 35 percent say the policy is too liberal while 16 percent say it’s not liberal enough.

K.


You may wanting read this, it seems your polls are not very reliable. Maybe you should get a few Pinocchios.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/09/25/how-unpopular-or-popular-is-obamacare/

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 1:36:57 PM   
DsBound


Posts: 268
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Putting aside (1) Obamacare is the Law, (2) Passed by THE HOUSE AND SENATE, (3) Upheld by the US SUPREME COURT and (4) Reaffirmed in a mandate with the wholesale rejection of Mitt Romney's platform of repeal...

Since John Boehner reneged on the deal cut to fund the government at Sequestration levels, why would anyone believe he'd keep his word on anything else going forward?


Why do the dems get a free card for telling untruths?
Both parties lie... thats how they get elected. They're all corrupt to some degree. Its funny hearing folks talk about one party, as if it has a monopoly on being full of crap. They both lie, cheat and steal. Wake up people!!

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 2:41:13 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

You may wanting read this, it seems your polls are not very reliable. Maybe you should get a few Pinocchios.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/09/25/how-unpopular-or-popular-is-obamacare/

But it is certainly correct that the health-care law continues to suffer from relatively low public support...

Looks like those Pinocchios are for you, plus one more for your post.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/8/2013 2:42:09 PM >

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/9/2013 1:28:38 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have seen polls stating otherwise.



Can we see one that doesn't come from the DNC website?






There was a 'poll' in the House of Representatives, where the Bill passed.

There was a 'poll' in the Senate, where the Bill passed and was returned to the house.

There was ANOTHER 'poll' in the House, where the now Joint Resolution passed.

THEN The President 'voted' on it with is signature, making it The Law of The Land.

THEN The US SUPREME COURT VOTED ON IT. And affirmed it.

THEN EVERYONE VOTED FOR IT AGAIN, when Obama was RE-ELECTED.

THEN there were OVER FORTY POLLS IN THE HOUSE where Obamacare was affirmed.

That enough for you?

Not one from the DNC Website.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/9/2013 1:31:45 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DsBound


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Putting aside (1) Obamacare is the Law, (2) Passed by THE HOUSE AND SENATE, (3) Upheld by the US SUPREME COURT and (4) Reaffirmed in a mandate with the wholesale rejection of Mitt Romney's platform of repeal...

Since John Boehner reneged on the deal cut to fund the government at Sequestration levels, why would anyone believe he'd keep his word on anything else going forward?


Why do the dems get a free card for telling untruths?
Both parties lie... thats how they get elected. They're all corrupt to some degree. Its funny hearing folks talk about one party, as if it has a monopoly on being full of crap. They both lie, cheat and steal. Wake up people!!




There's a material difference between going on TV and making a speech and WHAT YOU SAY ACROSS A NEGOTIATING TABLE.

Everyone in politics expects you to keep your word ACROSS THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.

Bohener LIED AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.

Boehner will NEVER BE INVITED BACK TO NEGOTIATE.

Replace Boehner, Make good on the commitments he made AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE, and then we'll talk.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DsBound)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/9/2013 1:34:17 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

You may wanting read this, it seems your polls are not very reliable. Maybe you should get a few Pinocchios.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/09/25/how-unpopular-or-popular-is-obamacare/

But it is certainly correct that the health-care law continues to suffer from relatively low public support...

Looks like those Pinocchios are for you, plus one more for your post.

K.



I don't know, everyone who had been thrown out of an insurance plan because of a Lifetime Maximum Benefit or Pre-existing conditon are pretty happy.

The only people who seem really unhappy are those who are going to have to step up to the plate and actually spend money on employee benefits. Sucks to be them, but if you're going to claim 40 hours of someone's best time in the week, you're going to have to treat them like human beings.

And again, the reason I don't like obamacare is that it doesn't cover everyone. So, let's say 50% of the 'unhappy' people are unhappy because Obamacare doesn't cover everyone.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/9/2013 10:23:06 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Copy of text of email sent to my congressman, a republican.

quote:

you republicans cant get over the fact that the Affordable Health Care Act... has the support of the majority of Americans

 
Poll: Obamacare remains highly unpopular as implementation looms

A large number of Americans continue to adamantly oppose the nation’s new health-care law and believe it will produce damaging results, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

Forty-four percent of respondents call the health-care law a bad idea, while 31 percent believe it's a good idea -- virtually unchanged from July's NBC/WSJ survey. By a 45 percent to 23 percent margin, Americans say it will have a negative impact on the country's health-care system rather than a positive one.

CNN Poll: Majority of Americans Oppose Obamacare

A majority of Americans oppose the healthcare legislative centerpiece of Barack Obama’s presidency...
 
Fifty-four percent of those polled oppose Obamacare, while 43 percent of those polled say they support the law as it stands. Both numbers are relatively unchanged since the bill was passed in 2010. Of those polled, 35 percent say the policy is too liberal while 16 percent say it’s not liberal enough.

K.


You may wanting read this, it seems your polls are not very reliable. Maybe you should get a few Pinocchios.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/09/25/how-unpopular-or-popular-is-obamacare/


You may want to read this: since your quote doesn't say what you think it says.

Culbertson earned his pinnochio for saying it was the most unpopular law in american history.
Reid earned his pinnochios for saying the law had the support of the american population.

But the quoted article acknowledges many more americans dislike the law than like it.


(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/10/2013 10:27:46 AM   
slavekate80


Posts: 362
Joined: 7/4/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Democrats do it, too."

Could you give us some examples of democrats, extorting what they wanted by shutting down the government?


Thank you.

Though, I think Republicans should be concerned about this happening in the future. If they successfully pull off this hostage-taking tactic this time, it sets a very bad precedent. Who's to say that the next time the political situation is reversed, that the Democrats won't do the same thing? (Now, Democrats, because of their political beliefs, have more of a vested interest in having a functioning government.... but that doesn't guarantee anything.)


Something similar occurred in Wisconsin in early 2011, when the Democrats didn't want to vote on a state budget bill knowing they wouldn't get their way. They physically left the state to prevent the vote, and any others, from happening.

The House has passed budget bills every year. Not necessarily good ones, but they've done something. The Senate has not passed any of them and the Democrats seem unable or unwilling to come up with alternatives to budget bills that have serious problems. This really looks like a situation in which both sides are being stubborn.

I'm not a Republican, and I don't support a lot of what they do. But most founded complaints about them are true of the Democrats as well in a slightly different form. They're really not that different from each other, both wanting big government and lots of control over the lives of us "little people." They're really only disagreeing on methods and some of the finer points.

(in reply to graceadieu)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/10/2013 11:23:32 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekate80
The House has passed budget bills every year. Not necessarily good ones, but they've done something.

Not true. The House has passed what is called a budget resolution. It is a sort of top level plan. The House has failed to pass, or in some cases even write, the actual budget bills for each department.

quote:

The Senate has not passed any of them and the Democrats seem unable or unwilling to come up with alternatives to budget bills that have serious problems. This really looks like a situation in which both sides are being stubborn.

Not true again. the Senate received the House budget resolution this year and amended it to reflect their preferences as is their right. The Senate Republicans then filibustered appointing conferees to work out the differences with the House and the House Republicans have refused to appoint conferees as well, Pelosi did appoint the House Democratic conferees but they won't be official until Boehner allows a vote to appoint all the House conferees.

IOW this budget impasse is entirely the Republicans fault. They are the ones not doing their jobs and they are the ones intentionally not allowing the Congress to function as it always has. This meme that both parties are at fault is simply and provably untrue.

(in reply to slavekate80)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/10/2013 8:46:12 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekate80

Gutting the ACA by not funding it is a legal move. It's dirty, but legal, if it gets enough support to pass through.

Most politicians lie, cheat, and use any technicality they can to get their way. Democrats do it, too. And the more complicated the laws and regulations get, the more it'll happen, because there are so many loopholes to exploit and fuzzy definitions to stretch. There can be no useful negotiations when either side is unwilling to compromise, and neither Republicans nor Democrats want to do more than throw a few crumbs to the other side. Any two-party system will devolve to this kind of gridlock eventually - technically we do have other parties, but they're too small to be a real threat to either of the big players except sometimes at the local level.

Then it is up to any opposition to anything to...get the votes. For a loser in the political arena and any of us to suggest that to hold the country's debt limit as a means to then extort the defunding is the height of traitorous conceit.

.....and NO, the dems have never done this and is a ridiculous attempt to equivocate the issue.

(in reply to slavekate80)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/10/2013 9:09:30 PM   
uhDumbPiglet


Posts: 2
Joined: 9/23/2013
Status: offline 		^^ anyone else here drastically losing money everyday due to the shutdown?

at the moment i took myself off of healthcare due to the ghastly payments for nothing. i do not want obamacare, ive hated this idea all along, people who are paying good money for healthcare, do not want obamacare. *why?* cuz then theyll have to pay more, for someone like me who doesnt want it, to legally have it. and what will most people who are forced to pay for something like healthcare, do in a pinch? theyll forge and lie on every last inch so they can to save a buck. in a few years itll probably be the same lies one does to acquire section 8.

although ive been bored to tears, and aimlessly waiting to go back to work, for years now, ive been condemning this plan. although i think the tea party people are a bit creepy, and my views are nowhere near conservative, i dont think theres anyone else who could have done this. my hopes, the govt switch is back on in the morning, and im running out the door to work by 11am, all cuz he gave up the health plan. i know its a fucking fantasy though.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/10/2013 10:34:37 PM   
SerWhiteTiger


Posts: 437
Joined: 8/12/2013
From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
Status: offline 		Why should lying politicians ever negotiate with each other? Can't trust any of them.

Then again, not much would get done if they didn't negotiate.

That sounds awesome.

(in reply to slavekate80)
Profile   Post #: 36
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