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Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/2/2006 12:27:49 AM

LadyOrchid

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My question is,
is it safe for someone with post traumatic stress disorder to take a Dominant role in a relationship? Is it potentially dangerous to the submissive/slave? Are there others doing so here who'd care to elaborate? Those who've had such bad experiences that they won't pursue it at all now?
If you can't reply here either Master/slave, please message Me with your responses.
It would be a tremendous help in making an informed decision.

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/2/2006 12:48:04 AM

Wulfchyld

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It is safe as long as you understand what the cause of the disorder is and do not create an environment that will trigger a flashback. I have to avoid blood (the smell of fresh blood) and knives (blood on knives is a big no no), they set me off. As does shouting. Some people will become paralyzed by the flash back and some (me) will become very violent. You want to make sure there is no visual, audible, and most important of all olfactory similarities. So it would require a great deal of discussion, trust, and openness. While in the discussion you can expect some flashbacks. Just make sure there are no environment triggers that will cast them completely into the trauma. Hope it helped.

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/2/2006 1:50:43 AM

mons

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greeting to all

I have post traumatci disorder i saw someone beaten to death, i always saw my father in front of all of the kids try to kill my mother with a knife , this was something i had frogotten for more then twenty no more then that i was 7 years old i saw him stab her everywhere. But i have taken therapy for many years. I have control over my pain and i been with submissive and slave and never hurt either one. I know this is a shock and i wrote it i am not ashmed i did not do this to my mother or that person, so i know i would never hurt anyone, i had something else happen but it is to hard to say here. I did not get any help as a child back then they did not do anything but i was lucky and show in me something was not ok i did not remember what happen for more the twenty years. but i must say i will not date a black man for a million dollars. and i am black. I think it is safe as long as this person has help therapy it works very well i got out my angry at my father and the other person the shock of remember was so hard i was in shock for months, so i hope this will help in telling this here heals me as well.

mons

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/2/2006 2:07:06 AM

SusanofO

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I don't know about post-traumatic stress disorder as it relates specifically to what is termed collectively as "bdsm" - but I know about how to work with people who have it in general (some of which relates to sexual abuse) and the key is, basically: Never do anything they are really scared of (sudden touching, hugging, etc.) - if you do, introduce it slowly and with their full knowledge that is what you are doing (they have a right to know that, I think).

In other words, sneaking up behind them and hugging them or wrestling them to the floor in the belief one is "helping" may very well backfire and do further damage. It might not, but are you willing to bet their future mental and emotional health on it if you are not almost certain? There is room for "guessing" but I happen to think it's a slim margin.

There are are a few kids now at the center where I volunteer who need to sleep with the lights on (even adults do this I am sure, and that's okay. Nobody needs to "de-condition" them - they will (and can) do it themselves when they are ready). They can be de-sensitized, so to speak - but they have to be in "cooperation mode" first.
And I believe you don't "get there" by pushing someone there (occasional nudging, maybe) - but that is a judgment call I believe some who think they are qualified to make simply are not. Sometimes the opinion of "lay people" though, in my experience, outshines the so-called "professionals" (that, too, is a judgment call).

That is what I have been trained to believe works - (I work with abused unmentionables on a volunteer basis and we had to undergo months of training to even be a volunteer. I do realize it's not akin to a Master's degree, but it's something anyway) - and I believe it to be true.

Consider - if someone wants someone else to "get over it" (whatever it is) - and soon -just how important that actually is (if the other person is not ready) and if one person actually is the other best qualified to help them do that. One can be a Master and still not be Master of every bit of knowledge on the planet (that may be one reason counsellors are in business).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/2/2006 2:39:35 AM >

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/2/2006 4:34:42 AM

wandering4u

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Be very careful until after you know the cause and effect. Did the person recive treatment for it? Is therapy still going on? This is a very general question for a very person specific situation. My suggestion is to find out as much as you can before doing anything that may trigger a flashback. Usually there is a series of trigger events and all should be understood before going further.

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/3/2006 2:09:55 AM

leatherorlace

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Making a discovery or determination as to whether they have an Anger Management issues is very helpful in your examination of a potential property or owner.
M. Gentry

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/3/2006 3:26:21 AM

mons

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greeting to all

I know a male who had got to know a domme so he thought she turn out to be the domme from hell not only did she tie him so he would not be able to move she rape him, this has turn a wonderful submissive into someone who is scare to death now. she would not let him up and she hurt him psychially and also emotionally he has throught speaking with me ben able to know that not all domme are like this he was he very first. He is now going through good times and will be okay as long as no one tie him and he is a big guy. I wonder who she was to think she could do something so horrbile to another person but he is stronger now and he out with another kinder domme andhe knows what to expect but i explain to him ask ask ask always.

mons

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/4/2006 7:05:02 AM

FangsNfeet

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Like any other disorder, it's safe to participate in every day life and BDSM as long as the person inflicted with the conflict takes responsibility. As already stated, it's important to know what one can and can't be around to avoid a flash back situation. If you're on medications, then take your pills.

Admitting that you have the disorder and taking care it with medical treatment/advice is being responsible. A dom can't be a dom without being able to controll himself. If he has a problem, then he needs to do whatever it takes to get the job done.

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/4/2006 7:31:44 AM

juliaoceania

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fast reply

There are different ways in which PTSD manifests itself. If someone has a severe case in which they have uncontrollable flashbacks and trouble controlling anger they should not necessarily be seeking a relationship with anyone, lifestyle or not. If one is already in a relationship they have to work it out I guess, but this is the same as vanilla in my eyes. If someone is unsafe to be around it really doesn't matter whether they are vanilla or lifestyle... Very few people that suffer from PTSD cannot control it with the right help.

There are some people that medicate themselves with alcohol and other drugs, which complicates the issue. If someone is drinking I do not think that it is a good idea to do WIIWD. I have suffered from PTSD, and although my symptoms were light compared to other people, I think I was able to control myself in the ways that matter to dominate someone. I am not a person that gets physical when I get angry anyways, nor did I medicate myself with booze or anything else. I think it depends on the person is my point.

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/4/2006 7:33:55 AM

Bearlee

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Wow… interesting topic, in that I’m currently sort of dealing with ‘flashbacks’ of a sort, though in a vanilla setting. I come from a rather psychotic family. My parents fought a lot, cops came periodically; both parents beat us kids. (yada yada…many go through this, I know; especially people who grew up in the 50’s or earlier.)

I am having my kitchen remodeled. The guy I hired is a little, short, arrogant… okay, I’ll stop. The deal is, he gets in my face and jabs toward me with his pointed finger and ‘tells me how it is’. It drives me NUTS! Okay, okay, I know I should fire the guy…but I live in a very, very rural area and construction workers are hard to find. So, I put up with him…at least for awhile.

Finally, I cannot take anymore…so I devised a way to get rid of him without actually firing his butt. (I’m afraid to! <shakes head> ) However, he’s as mad as a wet hen and can hardly talk to me without shouting and name-calling. I was telling all this to a friend the other day…and mentioned he reminds me of my father; she asked if I was having ‘flashbacks’. WOW …I had never considered this before.

I was very curious why I find this guy so difficult and still had not removed him from my life and having finally realized that is EXACTLY what is happening, (flashbacks); I am working to deal with him. It was very weird when he and I met to go over paperwork (he had a $750 error in his billing to me). He flies off the handle and cannot even look at the receipts he is so busy yelling at me for all MY faults and I suddenly realize THIS is why I do not like verbal humiliation or yelling or those interrogation scenes. I cannot even watch them. My mouth goes dry, I shake violently…just like while this guy is yelling at me. Perhaps BECAUSE I finally realize what is going on, I was able to stand my ground, not get defensive or take his bait…and most importantly, not cry. It was still really hard though, and in the end he still walked out; nothing is yet resolved.

Okay, this was a little off topic, but I wanted to share that PTSD can affect a BDSM relationship…or just a life.

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/4/2006 8:31:51 AM

midniterider7

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Maybe you should reconsider this,until you know where you have control of all your faculties.

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/4/2006 9:10:57 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: midniterider7

Maybe you should reconsider this,until you know where you have control of all your faculties.

I did not see that she lacked control over herself. If she lacked control over herself she would have fired his ass or locked herself in a room and not come out until he was gone. She bit her tongue and logically realized that she was not responding to him in a logical and reasonable internally. She realizes her limits with interrogation scenes. She seems to be handling herself with maturity and self knowledge... why should she not indulge her fetishes in a power exchange? I think most people lack less self examination than I saw in Bearlee's post... and they engage in BDSM daily...lol.

No one is in complete control over every emotional aspect, and if they think they can control their emotional states, they are lying.. humans feel emotions.. it is how we act upon them that defines us, it is how we process those emotions that makes us have character or not. I wouldn't submit to someone that claimed they could control their emotions 24-7, because I believe they would be lying.. no one can and still be human.. we can only control what those emotions do to us.

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/4/2006 10:06:52 AM

Bearlee

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Thank you, Julia. You’re right, generally I am quite outspoken and am able to handle myself with rude, obnoxious people…but my reaction to the contractor is NOT logical. I couldn’t figure it out, either…till I mentioned to a gal-pal that he reminds me of my father and she asked about ‘flashbacks’.

While I’ve never experienced flashbacks before, perhaps not even now; it sure is an eye opener to realize just why he makes me quake in my shoes.

That I am able to bite my tongue and not respond in ways that would just heat him up all the more, is something I seem to getting a lot of practice in of late.

LOL …and tying that back into submission (part of BDSM for me); I’m learning to control my emotions and become the better submissive for it…because while I AM standing my ground, I’m also learning when and how to quit feeding the problem…while staying true to myself.

Thank you again. I liked your last line, too: “We can only control what those emotions do to us.” I agree…and believe it’s good to feel a whole host of emotions on both sides of the scale; but it’s what we do with them, or reactions TO them, that is what makes our lives healthy or not.

Edited to add:

PS… I almost wrote ‘Huh?’ in response to midniterider7. …I didn’t get that he was suggesting I re-consider my involvement in BDSM. To respond now…I’ll say that as long as I’m single and Dom-less, I’ll avoid the kind of humiliation that is similar to the verbal abuse we got as kids …including interrogation scenes. Perhaps someday, with someone trusted, I can explore those old wounds.

< Message edited by Bearlee -- 7/4/2006 10:13:30 AM >

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RE: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and BDSM - 7/4/2006 11:39:56 AM

diaphane

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LONG Post alert! *giggle*

I have PTSD from a few sources. I was physically and sexually abused by my father. I grew up in the house with my mother whose boyfriend was an angry alcoholic who loved to rampage around the house with his guns in hand (though he never pointed a gun at us). When I was 17, I married a violent, alcoholic adulterer. I was married to him for 8 years, though the last 3 we were separated. Still, the time we were together was a terrifying and mind screwing experience. He was a dominator, not a Dominant. The last time I saw him was in June of 2004 where he was threatening to kill me (which was nothing new actually), but my 5 year old son was there. My SON stood up to him instead of me saying "If you hurt my Mommy I'll kick you where it hurts!". It put my husband off just enough that my son and I were able to flee the scene. I never took my son back to visit him again and I've never seen or heard from him since... not personally. He did contact my mother and grandmother a few times over the years.

Anyway, didn't mean to get caught up in the details. I've dealt, for the most part, with the trauma caused by my father. And my mother's boyfriend, who died a few years ago from alcholism-related illness, was really just a drop in the bucket compared to the other things I went through. The real issues that I still face come from the marriage. Anger and any sort of violence are very traumatic to me. I've NEVER been comfortable with anger or violence in any case. Even when I was a child. I used to run from fights, or let the person hit me, because I was afraid to hit them back and make the situation worse.

I have been to counseling, quite a number of times, and am currently in counseling... though, truth be told, this current counselor is a waste of time. My counselor merely listens and gives lame remarks at the end like "That must be hard on you". I tried telling him at our last session that I was getting back into the D/s scene on this site and had to explain a bit about what D/s is. At the end, he just said "Well, sounds like you know what you're doing."

At any rate, I've spent many years digging into myself, discovering who I am and what I believe and why I think the way I do. I still live with fear, but I know what I'm afraid of and why. I do not have, nor have I ever had, any flashbacks. I have had bad dreams on occasion over the course of my life... and sometimes a scene in a movie or TV show will bring up a memory and I will have to deal with it. Usually I'll get sad or contemplative for a while, then I move on. A little nap also helps.

I know some part of me is repressing. But I've pulled a lot of things out of the closet and dealt with them head on. I don't feel guilty over any of it. I don't think for a second that any of the childhood trauma is my fault. And the issues in my marriage, well, I made bad choices. I did try to leave him on several occasions, but he would always threaten to kill me and my family if I didn't bring "his" son back. So I would go back. My mother told me "Don't worry about me, I can take care of myself."... but I didn't want to feel responsible for it if anything happened to her. At the same time, I was ... familiar with the situation with my husband. It wasn't the most pleasant experience, but leaving was an uncertainty. So, it was a CHOICE I made. I could have chosen to take the risk and stay away from him. But I didn't. I allowed him to hurt me and frighten me. In that, I take responsibility and keep my power.

I used to have major trust issues. I still have a couple I believe, intertwined with fear, but for the most part I have learned to be open and honest and love. I have learned insight and wisdom from my life experiences. I hope to continue to learn and grow in my life. And I hope someday I will find the right Dom who will learn to know me, who will be willing to guide me, teach me, and love me and that I will bloom beneath His hand.

One last thing. On the topic of emotions. I have learned, through life and even a week-long seminar, that certain extreme emotions are (in most cases) controllable. Sure, we will feel certain emotions at certain times but we allow ourselves to get angry or "fly off the handle". Some people will say "I can't help it. I just lose control when <X> happens.". I don't believe that (unless it is a person with PTSD and in that instance, they may not know -how- to control those emotions, but the ability is still there). There are 2 things in this life that we, as individuals, are in control of. We control what we do, and we control how we react to the things that come our way. At least that's what I believe.

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