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When will people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 1:00:28 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		The ACA...is NOT reform. Stick with me here but I'll be as brief as possible.

When will the American people actually learn about the American business culture and how govt. serves that culture ? I guess...never.

America's health care is not a right. America's health care is first a marketplace, formed for a PROFIT. Got that ? You with me here ?

Now America's business ethos is to MAXIMIZE PROFITS. As compared to other human beings that also desire health care, the result not surprisingly, is costlier care and earlier death. I don't want to go too fast now but stay with me ok ?

Briefly, two examples of non-reform, reform. Airline deregulation and reform. The airline industry formed the IATA (International Air Transport Assoc.) to fix prices. All of that was over with reform. BUT all that did was to create hubs dominated by a single airline so the flying customer still dealt locally and with the same market arrangement in the interest of that dominant carrier. Notice how we saw a number of discount airlines that quickly disappeared with the only possible exception being Southwest which came later.

Telecommunication reform. We had Ma-Ball (a legislated monopoly phone co.) so everyone who picked up a phone got a dial tone from Ma-Bell. All reform did was reduce Ma-Ball into 9 'baby bells' so what happened ? Your dial tone came from the same place...with a different name. Reform in effect, only divided the stocks and the bookkeeping of what was Ma-Bell. There was still no competition as in being able to obtain a dial tone from a competitor. Still with me ?

Fast forward to the ACA. ALL that act does is force people who didn't have or didn't want health insurance...to buy health insurance. Yea, yea a few rent-seeking aspects are now prohibited but still...use your imagination and your logic. This so-called reform requires millions of new customers and predominantly reasonably healthy low risk customers at that...to purchase health insurance. Still with me ?

So the ACA is nothing really in the area of a real market reform to do what...make it easier and cheaper to obtain insurance except some subsidies (taxpayer) help for the poorest. Now that isn't reform, it is just subsidizing profits. It is predicted this will be an absolute windfall for insurance companies and because premiums may come down but with the subsidies, profits still sky rocket because of a huge increase in the pool of newly insured.

Got it now ? The only surprising thing is why these insurance companies don't meet with the for-profit lobbyists and pols on the right fighting this, throw a few $million in free speech at them and drop all efforts to kill the ACA.



< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/11/2013 1:42:42 PM >
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 1:21:45 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		You're just now figuring this out???

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 1:38:23 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

You're just now figuring this out???

Now TK honestly, does my post above really sound like I am...just now figuring this out ?

I am sure you recall that during the 90's this country was in fact actually paying down federal debt...actually shrinking that elephant in the room. Gee, I wonder what happened before and since ? You cannot possibly have a non-partisan discussion when it is all too obvious what and who the problem is.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 1:42:00 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ALL that act does is force people who didn't have or didn't want health insurance...to buy health insurance.


My pre-existing condition and I disagree.

So do the many families I know who are delighted that they can now cover their children until age 26.

Etc.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 1:42:24 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		K, aint you va?

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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 1:52:46 PM   
SerWhiteTiger


Posts: 437
Joined: 8/12/2013
From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
Status: offline 		Welcome to the crap that's been going on for over a century. People aren't going to get a grip and learn any time soon.

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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 2:02:47 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

K, aint you va?


Yes - the VA won't authorize the procedure which has adverse effects like sunburn (but they will do the procedure which has a whole list of nasty adverse effects including death.) So I am shopping around on the private market and waiting for the no pre-existing conditions clause to kick in next year.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 2:09:49 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

K, aint you va?


Yes - the VA won't authorize the procedure which has adverse effects like sunburn (but they will do the procedure which has a whole list of nasty adverse effects including death.) So I am shopping around on the private market and waiting for the no pre-existing conditions clause to kick in next year.


Ah, and now that you are saying it, seems I should have known that.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 2:32:58 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

K, aint you va?


Yes - the VA won't authorize the procedure which has adverse effects like sunburn (but they will do the procedure which has a whole list of nasty adverse effects including death.)


Isn't government managed healthcare grand?



(in reply to kalikshama)
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/11/2013 2:36:24 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		It isn't government managed, it is teabagger raped.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 5:16:28 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

K, aint you va?


Yes - the VA won't authorize the procedure which has adverse effects like sunburn (but they will do the procedure which has a whole list of nasty adverse effects including death.)


Isn't government managed healthcare grand?


I've been working with someone from the company who makes the machines - turns out insurance companies don't cover the procedure as a matter of course either - they consider it experimental. It was approved by the FDA 9 years ago. Last year, the hospital told me Harvard Pilgrim has paid for it, but HP's official policy is that they do not. The company rep said insurance companies may make exceptions on a case-by-case basis and she is trying to find me ones that have easier pre-approval denial appeal processes.

I'm back to trying to get into the study that turned me down last year due to my fibroid being 1 cm bigger than what they are looking for. The company rep is helping me with that too.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: When will people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 6:34:51 AM   
leonine


Posts: 409
Joined: 11/3/2009
From: [email protected]
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


Got it now ? The only surprising thing is why these insurance companies don't meet with the for-profit lobbyists and pols on the right fighting this, throw a few $million in free speech at them and drop all efforts to kill the ACA.



Probably a good example of the GOP's problem with being torn between the old school business lobbyists, who talk free enterprise but practice government enforced oligopoly, and the new TeaP faction who actually believe all the stuff about small government, and fight for it even when it hits corporate profits.

_____________________________

Leo9


Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 6:42:19 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

You're just now figuring this out???

Now TK honestly, does my post above really sound like I am...just now figuring this out ?

I am sure you recall that during the 90's this country was in fact actually paying down federal debt...actually shrinking that elephant in the room. Gee, I wonder what happened before and since ? You cannot possibly have a non-partisan discussion when it is all too obvious what and who the problem is.



Actually based on this comment "Fast forward to the ACA. ALL that act does is force people who didn't have or didn't want health insurance...to buy health insurance." it not only doesn't sound like you have just figured it out, it sounds like you missed most of what the bill covers. But please by all means keep telling us how much smarter you are than "the american people"

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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 6:45:33 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

K, aint you va?


Yes - the VA won't authorize the procedure which has adverse effects like sunburn (but they will do the procedure which has a whole list of nasty adverse effects including death.)


Isn't government managed healthcare grand?






Yes it is and after watching the bang up job they do with the limited participants they have to deal with now, I can hardly wait until they get us all on the rolls. I bet that will really make them more efficient.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 5:59:33 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

ALL that act does is force people who didn't have or didn't want health insurance...to buy health insurance.


My pre-existing condition and I disagree.

So do the many families I know who are delighted that they can now cover their children until age 26.

Etc.

Yea, yea a few rent-seeking aspects are now prohibited but still...use your imagination and your logic. That's what I meant and the few it emcompasses doesn't qualify as real reform only these adjustments to the existing regime. If all ACA did was these changes. then I doubt there would be all of this political shit going on.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 6:02:13 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

K, aint you va?


Yes - the VA won't authorize the procedure which has adverse effects like sunburn (but they will do the procedure which has a whole list of nasty adverse effects including death.)


Isn't government managed healthcare grand?


This isn't government 'managed' health care at all. It is merely a mandate to buy it. And trust me, from the ones that I know, most veterans would rather have the VA then none at all.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 6:05:36 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

You're just now figuring this out???

Now TK honestly, does my post above really sound like I am...just now figuring this out ?

I am sure you recall that during the 90's this country was in fact actually paying down federal debt...actually shrinking that elephant in the room. Gee, I wonder what happened before and since ? You cannot possibly have a non-partisan discussion when it is all too obvious what and who the problem is.



Actually based on this comment "Fast forward to the ACA. ALL that act does is force people who didn't have or didn't want health insurance...to buy health insurance." it not only doesn't sound like you have just figured it out, it sounds like you missed most of what the bill covers. But please by all means keep telling us how much smarter you are than "the american people"

Why don't you educate me, but please include all my points as I have in reply to TK.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 6:08:45 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

K, aint you va?


Yes - the VA won't authorize the procedure which has adverse effects like sunburn (but they will do the procedure which has a whole list of nasty adverse effects including death.)


Isn't government managed healthcare grand?






Yes it is and after watching the bang up job they do with the limited participants they have to deal with now, I can hardly wait until they get us all on the rolls. I bet that will really make them more efficient.

Who's they ? I guess you and those who agree won't be happy until the medical industrial complex tells you it is your money or your life.

Of wait, in some cases...they already do.

(in reply to thishereboi)
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RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 6:14:45 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

K, aint you va?


Yes - the VA won't authorize the procedure which has adverse effects like sunburn (but they will do the procedure which has a whole list of nasty adverse effects including death.)


Isn't government managed healthcare grand?


This isn't government 'managed' health care at all. It is merely a mandate to buy it. And trust me, from the ones that I know, most veterans would rather have the VA then none at all.


I beg to differ. The VA is indeed government managed.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: When people get a grip and learn ? - 10/12/2013 6:23:59 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

You're just now figuring this out???

Now TK honestly, does my post above really sound like I am...just now figuring this out ?

I am sure you recall that during the 90's this country was in fact actually paying down federal debt...actually shrinking that elephant in the room. Gee, I wonder what happened before and since ? You cannot possibly have a non-partisan discussion when it is all too obvious what and who the problem is.



Actually based on this comment "Fast forward to the ACA. ALL that act does is force people who didn't have or didn't want health insurance...to buy health insurance." it not only doesn't sound like you have just figured it out, it sounds like you missed most of what the bill covers. But please by all means keep telling us how much smarter you are than "the american people"

Why don't you educate me, but please include all my points as I have in reply to TK.


I'm sorry, but your op does sound as if you're just noticing this. You're a little late to the party. Some of us have known from the outset that this has been a rigged game. Funny, but there's been a huge contingent of people who've been against it from the start and some have continued to try to stop it. But the diehard liberals have clung to their talking points, screaming from the rooftops that those who want to repeal the ACA just want people to die from lack of healthcare. There's no point in even trying to talk to those folks, so we don't.

As far as insisting all your points be addressed, it appears that all you really want to do is rant and rave at the Republicans. I won't participate. In my book, you either bitch about the past that you can't change, or you move forward fixing what was wrong.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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