To immature to have an abortion

To immature to have an abortion (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 4:32:40 AM)
But its ok for the state to force her to birth a child http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/#53223314 http://abcnews.go.com/Health/court-nebraska-teenager-immature-decide-abortion/story?id=20507284 A Nebraska teenager in foster care was denied access to an abortion, because the Nebraska Supreme Court ruled she wasn't mature enough to make that decision on her own, according to a court opinion published this month. "It's a very unique case," the young woman's lawyer, Catherine Mahern, told ABCNews.com. "It's OK for her to relinquish her child for adoption. She doesn't need a court to determine the underlying psychological impact or emotional impact of giving up a child, which I think is significant." The 16-year-old girl, who was not named in the court opinion, was 10 weeks pregnant last May when she first asked a judge for a document that would allow her to obtain an abortion without parental consent. She explained that she wasn't financially ready to have a baby, and that she couldn't "be the right mom that [she] would like to be right now." That same month, the court terminated her biological parents' parental rights, citing abuse and neglect, and made her a ward of the state, according to the court document. Her father was convicted of third-degree assault after he broke her collarbone and shoulder blade in 2011, and her mother had a drug problem, according to the court document.

metamorfosis -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 5:14:53 AM)
I'm having trouble understanding their reasoning. She is a ward of the state, and it's not the state's policy to make decisions for it's wards about abortion, and yet... they did.

kalikshama -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 5:47:58 AM)
Ya, it doesn't make any sense: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/court-nebraska-teenager-immature-decide-abortion/story?id=20507284 ...The state Supreme Court judges released their opinion last week, again concluding that because the 16-year-old was still financially dependent on her foster parents, had not mentioned any work experience and had never lived on her own, she was not mature enough to make the decision to have an abortion. To get a consent waiver from the court, the young woman had to prove abuse by her actual parents, but since they no longer had any parental rights over her when she asked the court for the waiver, the court wouldn't grant it.

Lucylastic -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 5:59:48 AM)
too immature to have an abortion(doesnt understand the ramifications), yet they made her go thru all this legal shit, court case, abuse trial for her "parents" she was what four weeks pregnant, now shes four months...sounds like me they are hoping they can drag it out until the legal limit for abortion so they dont face the "you forced her to give birth" accusations

metamorfosis -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:06:05 AM)
I wish they had referenced the actual law. Did they deny her a waiver because she's never supported herself, or because her parents are no longer her guardians? Presumably, the law recognises her right to raise her child should she choose to do so. If she's mature enough for that, why isn't she mature enough to decide to terminate the pregnancy? Or is the child of a ward of the state automatically a ward of the state itself?

kalikshama -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:08:23 AM)
Nebraska Court Rules Teen Too Immature for an Abortion, Fine to Raise a Kid ...The teen’s lack of parents (and reluctance to involve new guardians who may or may not have the legal authority to grant consent) threw her at the mercy of a judge who objects to abortion on ideological grounds. After asking her whether she knew that “When you have the abortion, it’s going to kill the child inside of you,” Bataillon deemed the young woman insufficiently grown-up to terminate her pregnancy (but totally fine to give birth to and raise another human being). As Elizabeth Nash of the Guttmacher Institute wrote me, “For a minor to navigate the legal process and an appeal shows that she has fully considered her options, her life circumstances and made her decision."

metamorfosis -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:08:47 AM)
So the judge is effectively her ward? It sounds like he made his decision based on his own political beliefs and not his opinion about her fitness to make a decision.

Lucylastic -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:11:48 AM)
Heh true..altho as long as she can adopt it out, I doubt they care ...but thats my very biased thoughts

kalikshama -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:14:50 AM)
quote: I wish they had referenced the actual law. Did they deny her a waiver because she's never supported herself, or because her parents are no longer her guardians? From whom a state ward needs permission is not codified: http://www.chron.com/news/article/Neb-high-court-nixes-teen-s-request-for-abortion-4869315.php In the 5-2 opinion, the majority sided with the judge, saying that the abuse exemption does not apply to the girl, finding that a pregnant minor must show, for the purpose of waiving parental consent, that any abuse occurred at the hands of a current parent or guardian. It also found the girl did not prove she was sufficiently mature or well-informed enough to decide to have an abortion. As for her argument that the child protection agency's regulations don't require state wards to get parental or agency consent for an abortion, the majority determined that Bataillon was limited to considering only the parameters laid out in the state's parental consent law, which does not spell out from whom state wards would get consent. The high court did not consider the girl's argument that Bataillon should have recused himself, because she did not ask him to do so or question his impartiality at trial. In a dissent, Justice William Connolly said the girl has no legal parents, and, therefore, didn't have the option of seeking parental consent. That, he said, means the lower court lacked jurisdiction in the case and left her "in a legal limbo — a quandary of the Legislature's making." He also suggested that Nebraska's parental consent law is open to a constitutional challenge by state wards. "I realize that this conclusion means that none of the statutory exceptions apply and that under (the state law), the petitioner is prohibited from obtaining an abortion," Connolly wrote. "An absolute ban on the petitioner's right to seek an abortion obviously raises constitutional concerns."

metamorfosis -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:23:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama From whom a state ward needs permission is not codified: Well, that's just fucking stupid.

metamorfosis -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:31:31 AM)
If she was still with her abusive parents, would the court have been forced to grant the waiver, or would it still have been up to the judge?

metamorfosis -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:37:46 AM)
If she remains a ward of the court, who will be the child's ward... her, or the court?

tweakabelle -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:41:54 AM)
It's a very odd standard that deems anyone 'mature' enough to make one kind of decision about having a child but not 'mature' enough to make another kind of decision about having a child. To me that sounds like you are 'mature' enough to make a decision we approve of but we won't let you make a decision we don't like ie. the decision was made on moral not legal grounds. I look forward to hearing all our resident conservatives hitting the roof about the State's unwarranted intrusion into her life. It seems this woman was prepared to take personal responsibility for her abortion but the State refused to allow her to accept that responsibility. Do I expect that they will actually complain about this case - of course I don't but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

Lucylastic -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:42:37 AM)
GIven her lack of parental supervision, education/job experience, age, living situation, probably the courts.

Lucylastic -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:44:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It's a very odd standard that deems anyone mature enough to make one kind of decision about having a child but not mature enough to make the negative corollary of that decision. To me that sounds like you are 'mature' enough to make a decision we approve of but we won't let you make a decision we don't like ie. the decision was made on moral not legal grounds. I look forward to hearing all our resident conservatives hitting the roof about the State's unwarranted intrusion into her life. It seems this woman was prepared to take personal responsibility for her abortion but the State refused to allow her to accept that responsibility. Do I expect that they will actually complain about this case - of course I don't but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. someone will be along to say she should have thought about that before she got pregnant...kept her legs shut, etc etc, or what the father has to say abou tit all, anything but deal with the actual fact she is being forced to give birth at this moment in time

thishereboi -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:51:15 AM)
quote: After asking her whether she knew that “When you have the abortion, it’s going to kill the child inside of you,” Bataillon deemed the young woman insufficiently grown-up to terminate her pregnancy (but totally fine to give birth to and raise another human being). I want to know what the girl said that made her think this.

DesideriScuri -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:51:49 AM)
FR, This is a clusterfuck. How can a person, whose biological parents no longer have guardianship, and whose foster parents may or may not have guardianship, have any parents to get consent from? If it comes down to this child being a ward of the State of Nebraska, then she would have been seeking consent from the State. It is true that she may not be mature enough to understand the emotional consequences of an abortion. It is also true that she may not be mature enough to understand the emotional consequences of putting a child up for adoption. It is just as likely that she isn't mature enough to understand the emotional toll raising a child carries. The potential lack of maturity to understand the emotional consequences of any option should have signaled that the State (because she was too young to be emancipated) that the State (why there was any question of guardianship, I don't know) would be the body that either consented, or would have consent exempted from. The results of this case will likely result in clarifications of the law. It is entirely possible that the laws, as currently written, were followed properly. If the question of exemption due to abuse was what was sought, the girl wasn't being abused by her legal guardians at the time of request. I feel for this girl. Clearly she has decided getting an abortion is in her best interest. I hope this child is not a result of the abuse she received from her biological parents. The sad facts of the matter are that every possibility can't be considered when writing laws, and that it takes situations such as this to expose "legal limbo" situations that need clarification.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:52:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: metamorfosis If she remains a ward of the court, who will be the child's ward... her, or the court? She will have responsibility for the child unless she gives it up. But as a ward of the court I suspect the child will be a ward also, but one step removed, through her. Which of course will only serve to muddy the waters of who can make which decisions, who's accountable, etc. If she decides to keep the child they may make her an emancipated minor. If she's adult enough to take responsibility for a child, they may deem her adult enough to take charge of her own life. Which means they will no longer have to pay her bills. Note they this court only recognizes her maturity if and when she does what they want.

thishereboi -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 6:54:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It's a very odd standard that deems anyone 'mature' enough to make one kind of decision about having a child but not 'mature' enough to make another kind of decision about having a child. To me that sounds like you are 'mature' enough to make a decision we approve of but we won't let you make a decision we don't like ie. the decision was made on moral not legal grounds. I look forward to hearing all our resident conservatives hitting the roof about the State's unwarranted intrusion into her life. It seems this woman was prepared to take personal responsibility for her abortion but the State refused to allow her to accept that responsibility. Do I expect that they will actually complain about this case - of course I don't but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. I looked forward to a thread that didn't have the usual "conservatives are evil" drift to it. Maybe you will have better luck than I did. Silly me. [8\|]

Lucylastic -> RE: To immature to have an abortion (10/12/2013 7:07:26 AM)
I take it you didnt watch the maddow piece. Now while Im not having a go at any conservative/republican person my feeling is for the girl and the attitude of the damn court. THe girl is in this position because of the conservative/republican bill that was passed that stated that the minor has to have parental consent.

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