RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC

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cloudboy -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 6:53:03 PM)
It would probably please the Republican Base to clear out the welfare rolls through death and starvation. The new policy could be combined with a lowering of Capital Gains taxes, increases in military spending, and a re-deregulation of the banking industry. After repealing Obamacare, they might also pass laws to prevent the uninsured from receiving hospital and medical services that are unjustly sponsored by Americans with health insurance.

graceadieu -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 7:13:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion What happened at Walmart showed the true character of the welfare clan. It wasn't just one or two. It was a LOT. Tell me how flat screen TV sets fill your hunger. What does flat screen TVs have to do with anything? You can't buy flat-screen TVs with food stamps. You can only buy food and drink, and even then not hot prepared food or alcohol.

DesideriScuri -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 8:03:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: papassion What happened at Walmart showed the true character of the welfare clan. It wasn't just one or two. It was a LOT. Tell me how flat screen TV sets fill your hunger. The news tells us obeseity is a national problem, mostly in the poorer southern states. Bleeding hearts say they don't get enough food and are obese because they eat the wrong foods. Yeah, using that logic, I guess the Nazi concentration camp victims must have been fed the "right" foods because they didn't get much to eat and were NOT fat hogs! Basic physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed by ordinary means. If you have fat on your ass, the calories to create that fat had to go thru your mouth! It is IMPOSSIBLE to create more calories of fat than you ate. If you think you can, , you patent it , because you just created a perpetual motion machine! A machine that creates more energy than it consumes! You are wrong. What happened at WalMart showed the true character only of those who took advantage of the situation. That's it. You could be right (I highly doubt it), but you can't extrapolate to the whole group based on a local sample size far, far smaller. Desi, do you really think there would be any different reaction in any other Walmart in the United States? Like you, I wish it would not, but I have to live in the real word. If you have to live in the real world, come on back to it. Do you think every EBT beneficiary raided those WalMarts? The only ones you can accurately blame for being jackwagons are the ones that took advantage of the situation. How many abused the situation? How many total EBT beneficiaries are there? You can only accurately point at those that have shown their true colors. The rest, you can't.

DesideriScuri -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 8:07:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: papassion What happened at Walmart showed the true character of the welfare clan. It wasn't just one or two. It was a LOT. Tell me how flat screen TV sets fill your hunger. The news tells us obeseity is a national problem, mostly in the poorer southern states. Bleeding hearts say they don't get enough food and are obese because they eat the wrong foods. Yeah, using that logic, I guess the Nazi concentration camp victims must have been fed the "right" foods because they didn't get much to eat and were NOT fat hogs! Basic physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed by ordinary means. If you have fat on your ass, the calories to create that fat had to go thru your mouth! It is IMPOSSIBLE to create more calories of fat than you ate. If you think you can, , you patent it , because you just created a perpetual motion machine! A machine that creates more energy than it consumes! You are wrong. What happened at WalMart showed the true character only of those who took advantage of the situation. That's it. You could be right (I highly doubt it), but you can't extrapolate to the whole group based on a local sample size far, far smaller. You can not use the card in question to purchase TV sets. Even though the system was out of control for the cost, the systems in Wal-Mart (if they are anything like in New England) prevent such a card from being used to purchase non-food like items. Those are two different systems. Now its possible that system was compromised as well; but there is not evidence to support that conclusion right now. You are right that EBT doesn't pay for that type of stuff, papassion could also have been pointing out that many EBT beneficiaries have flat screens, which had to be paid for. If they spent money (not EBT) on flat screens, that might be why they have to rely on EBT to buy food. That is, he could have been questioning their spending priorities. I started my response to him with pointing that out, but then the other option popped in and, well, I didn't know how what was written was written.

joether -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 8:23:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri You are right that EBT doesn't pay for that type of stuff, papassion could also have been pointing out that many EBT beneficiaries have flat screens, which had to be paid for. If they spent money (not EBT) on flat screens, that might be why they have to rely on EBT to buy food. That is, he could have been questioning their spending priorities. I started my response to him with pointing that out, but then the other option popped in and, well, I didn't know how what was written was written. Oh gosh, amazing as it sounds there are people that make plenty of bad financial decisions. Most of the people that are granted an EBT card are those with proven economical hardships. There is a small percentage (say 5%) that lie to some extent. Those are usually hunted down and dragged into court for fraud. People buy up all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. Believe it or not, its been shown in quite a number of studies over the years that not 'acquiring' something of 'worth', tends to degrade an individual's view of self-worth and prosperity. As such there are scores of people who purchased stuff simply to feel like they are not losing out on life. There are those that make impulsive financial decisions. And those that consider two things: A ) Something they want, and B ) Something they need. The 'needed' item, while important is not as....fun....as the 'wanted' item that they really don't need. Gamblers fall into this trap all the time. Most EBT cards go on the idea of what a person earns in a given month plus known expenses (rent, children, food, utilities, other variable and fixed costs). Unless that government agency has some legal right to examine a particular person's bank account, the only way the folks at welfare detect fraud is by institution or information given to them from outside their office. Most people on welfare are NOT going to show their bank statement if they are trying to evade detection by the organization's fraud department. Even those that do, might feel its a violation of their 4th amendment rights. An that by itself is its own murky area of debate.

TheHeretic -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 8:28:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Most EBT cards go on the idea of what a person earns in a given month plus known expenses (rent, children, food, utilities, other variable and fixed costs). Unless that government agency has some legal right to examine a particular person's bank account, the only way the folks at welfare detect fraud is by institution or information given to them from outside their office. Most people on welfare are NOT going to show their bank statement if they are trying to evade detection by the organization's fraud department. Even those that do, might feel its a violation of their 4th amendment rights. An that by itself is its own murky area of debate. Wow. What a remarkable collection of incorrect assumptions about how the programs work, and are administered. Could you tell us (no Googling) what EBT even stands for?

PeonForHer -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 8:41:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girl4man I'm sure a great number are illegal aliens, sucking at America's teat, thinking what suckers we are for giving them our money while they're breaking our laws. Fuck them. quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail What then is the prescription for the 'few many' you are sure are not illegals? (your surety is not any form of veracity) Ron, I honestly don't get you sometimes. You must know that she's not, in a million years, ever going to understand a sentence like that.

PeonForHer -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 8:45:29 PM)
whoops, wrong thread.

TheHeretic -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 9:09:32 PM)
FR Considering that 47 million Americans receive aid from SNAP these days, you'd think people might try to inform themselves a little better, rather than just throwing out broad brush character attacks, or spouting ignorance and/or bigotry. Illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive aid for themselves, but their American born children are eligible of course, and that aid is given to the parents. It runs around a billion $ a year, just in Los Angeles County. That's cash, as well as food stamps.

DsBound -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 10:44:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: papassion What happened at Walmart showed the true character of the welfare clan. It wasn't just one or two. It was a LOT. Tell me how flat screen TV sets fill your hunger. The news tells us obeseity is a national problem, mostly in the poorer southern states. Bleeding hearts say they don't get enough food and are obese because they eat the wrong foods. Yeah, using that logic, I guess the Nazi concentration camp victims must have been fed the "right" foods because they didn't get much to eat and were NOT fat hogs! Basic physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed by ordinary means. If you have fat on your ass, the calories to create that fat had to go thru your mouth! It is IMPOSSIBLE to create more calories of fat than you ate. If you think you can, , you patent it , because you just created a perpetual motion machine! A machine that creates more energy than it consumes! You are wrong. What happened at WalMart showed the true character only of those who took advantage of the situation. That's it. You could be right (I highly doubt it), but you can't extrapolate to the whole group based on a local sample size far, far smaller. Spot on!

cloudboy -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 10:55:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic FR Considering that 47 million Americans receive aid from SNAP these days, you'd think people might try to inform themselves a little better, rather than just throwing out broad brush character attacks, or spouting ignorance and/or bigotry. Illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive aid for themselves, but their American born children are eligible of course, and that aid is given to the parents. It runs around a billion $ a year, just in Los Angeles County. That's cash, as well as food stamps. If the illegal aliens expose themselves to government agencies, even through their children, then they become targets for deportation. Having a US citizen child is not a ground to stop a deportation proceeding. ---- Also, if we are going to parse definitions here, if the aid goes to US citizen children --- it is going where it is supposed to go. --- Lastly, you have identified a problem but not indicated a solution.

tweakabelle -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/16/2013 11:25:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: papassion What happened at Walmart showed the true character of the welfare clan. It wasn't just one or two. It was a LOT. Tell me how flat screen TV sets fill your hunger. What does flat screen TVs have to do with anything? You can't buy flat- screen TVs with food stamps. You can only buy food and drink, and even then not hot prepared food or alcohol. Graceadieu, surely you know better than to inject some reality into another person's deranged ideological fantasy! Besides, it's common knowledge that the only TVs that fit into the boot of your average illegal alien/welfare queen's Cadillac are flat screen ones. Fortunately, there's enough space left over for a kilo or two of household necessities such as high grade pot or cocaine.

Phydeaux -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/17/2013 12:50:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle They have $650 million in "emergency reserves". But they refuse to access those funds to feed the State's neediest kids and families ..... Someone please tell me I have misunderstood and that this insanity isn't actually happening Lets see if I can explain the Republican insanity....sanely.... They withhold the funds from those that need it the most in the society. Those people become desperate for the simple necessities of life: food, shelter, medicine. Finding stable jobs that pay enough over the poverty level in that state is tough as is, without this 'piece of wisdom' being pushed onto the good citizens. So they resort to stealing and murder. This in turn drives up the firearm industry. Middle class citizens can not afford full time guards and high walls like the rich. So they buy up huge numbers of guns, bullets and other assorted traps. Soon enough the state's crime rate increases. This allows the NRA to convince any remaining sane people in government to further remove laws disallowing when, where, how firearms are used. The result, is an even higher levels of bloodshed in the state. Which helps out the funeral industry (because they really do have everything to gain by massive bloodshed in that state). Less people, more empty houses. Makes it much easier to obtain a house, assuming they are armed to the teeth with several years of combat military training under their belt (not to mention a few black belts in several styles). An those sort of people ONLY vote Republican. How is this politically motived again, tweakabelle? Republicans would NEVER stoop to such a dishonest and craven level! ah, actually no. Repubs voted to fund all these programs, remember. Dems said fuckem, Obamacare is more important. Soooo.. whatever tar you car to apply - be sure to spread evenly.

Phydeaux -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/17/2013 12:52:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy . If the illegal aliens expose themselves to government agencies, even through their children, then they become targets for deportation. Having a US citizen child is not a ground to stop a deportation proceeding. . LOL "Dream on". Only crminals are being deported, remember? And then they are being coached to say they fear political persecution which halts deportation hearing until after hearings.

Lucylastic -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/17/2013 2:52:51 AM)
IF only SNAP were the issue, this is the WHOLE welfare benefit in NC Other North Carolina programs funded through the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) grant also will be affected. That list includes childcare subsidies that cover more than 70,000 children and have already ceased being distributed in some parts of the state. http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dss/workfirst/ now wether this is a moot point given the change in situation .... I guess, people really did show their colours. PS Obama has deported more illegals than any other president in recent history.

joether -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/17/2013 4:00:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: joether Most EBT cards go on the idea of what a person earns in a given month plus known expenses (rent, children, food, utilities, other variable and fixed costs). Unless that government agency has some legal right to examine a particular person's bank account, the only way the folks at welfare detect fraud is by institution or information given to them from outside their office. Most people on welfare are NOT going to show their bank statement if they are trying to evade detection by the organization's fraud department. Even those that do, might feel its a violation of their 4th amendment rights. An that by itself is its own murky area of debate. Wow. What a remarkable collection of incorrect assumptions about how the programs work, and are administered. Could you tell us (no Googling) what EBT even stands for? 1 ) Give me the link to EVERY SINGLE program in existence and give an executive summary on how each one makes my wording incorrect. 2 ) Didn't have to go to Google.com, Bing.com works better. Or so the advertising states.... 3 ) Who do you think manages the accounts and regulations of these cards? Generally a state agency or government contracted business. As such in either case there is quite a depth of rules in play on how those cards work, what can be purchased and handle other financial problems. While I can not go into exact details on each state's benefit program, they do generally follow the same guidelines as to 'what' and 'how' things are purchased with....an Electronic Benefits Transaction (EBT) card.

TheHeretic -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/17/2013 5:58:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Lastly, you have identified a problem but not indicated a solution. And why should I cast my pearls before swine, Cloudboy? Here is the position you took at the top of this page in the discussion: quote: It would probably please the Republican Base to clear out the welfare rolls through death and starvation. Why the FUCK would I bother trying to have a policy reform conversation from that, or with anyone who makes such assertions? I do, from time to time, offer real suggestions on how we could make these programs work better. It typically kills the thread, as the libbies run from reality, to cower behind the insults and slurs they are so much more comfortable with, somewhere else. I can do those too, also better than your average libbie.

TheHeretic -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/17/2013 6:08:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Give me the link to EVERY SINGLE program in existence and give an executive summary on how each one makes my wording incorrect. What a delightfully ludicrous demand, Joether. I can always use a laugh, when I get home from work, and you have certainly provided it. I love the way people will dance and squeal when they are accustomed to getting away with nonsense in a bubble of the like-minded and equally prejudiced, and are called on their stupidity when they try it in mixed company. LOL! Links and websites aren't how I come by my expertise in welfare programs, though I certainly do follow new developments, as they come along - say the 2012 updated guidelines on the definition of homelessness, and the subsequent findings and directives on how they are to be interpreted. I even started a thread on that one. Of course, the really juicy stuff only rarely makes into a site where the general public would be able access it at all.

Phydeaux -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/17/2013 10:42:05 PM)
Just as a point of interesting contention. Japan, after WWII was bombed out. Industry destroyed. Millions of dead, wounded. Infrastructure a shambles. How did Japan, after WWII rise like the phoenix - so that people were proclaiming their economic miracle in the 80's. Did they do it through Social security payments? No. Did they do it through feed the poor programs? No. Yet people will argue that these programs are the fastest ways to regrow an economy. Sheer, unadulterated poppycock. Japan rebuilt. It invested in industry, and research. It made smart bets on steel, cars, IT. So, joel, not every that thinks our spending priorities are wacked do so from a desire to wipe out the lower classes. Most, like me, would rather take effective action to grow business opportunities. To further education. To cut corruption. And, oh yes, lower poverty.

papassion -> RE: No worries for welfare recipients? Try NC (10/18/2013 7:49:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: papassion What happened at Walmart showed the true character of the welfare clan. It wasn't just one or two. It was a LOT. Tell me how flat screen TV sets fill your hunger. What does flat screen TVs have to do with anything? You can't buy flat-screen TVs with food stamps. You can only buy food and drink, and even then not hot prepared food or alcohol. The news I watched, said some carts had flat screen TVs. I realize they cannot legally buy prepared food on the PA welfare , but I routinely have seen them buying hot sandwitches, wraps, etc. This was not in a small mom and pop store, but in a large chain store. Of course, this could be a thing between the clerks and their friends, and they write something legal on the receipt.

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