RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it?

RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (Full Version)

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SweetAnise -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (10/17/2013 9:06:40 PM)
What you're talking about is ABUSE. Forced slavery is against the law and a criminal act. Also, it is a very personal question to ask someone to divulge an experience on a forum to you. Of course someone might but most who have experienced this kind of abuse...do not want to speak about their experiences on a BDSM forum. They usually speak about it with a licensed professional or a forum who provides supportive counseling to help these individuals deal with the trauma.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (10/17/2013 10:51:08 PM)
fr I think we may have been unnecessarily harsh on the OP here. Yes, of course we're all against the idea of someone being forced into slavery. But in his defense, it is an incredibly common fantasy. It's a very common theme in erotica. A heck of a lot of women's romance novels at least hint at it and it features highly in porn. Even some mainstream films have scenes where the sex starts out bordering on rape but the woman ends up screaming in joy. I think it's much more likely that the OP was swept away in fantasy land and hoping for some titillating stories than him actually considering abduction for his next girlfriend. There are lots of message boards on the internet where people do exchange highly unrealistic wank stories in response to questions like this. I think he just misjudged his audience.

OsideGirl -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (10/18/2013 8:35:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders I think it's much more likely that the OP was swept away in fantasy land and hoping for some titillating stories than him actually considering abduction for his next girlfriend. I never thought he was planning an abduction, but I think he didn't realize how he came across. He came across as someone holding his dick in his hand at the thought of women being the victims of crime or abuse. (And I'm sure any woman that clicks the "View Forum Posts" button will be thrilled by this thread) He asked for experiences, but if someone had actually posted an experience...it would have been against ToS (promoting illegal activity) and it would have been admitting to a crime.

ladyzarah -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (10/25/2013 8:55:31 PM)
How can you possibly force someone to be submissive? The biggest mistake I've seen is being told "I own you" before even knowing me. The real collar isn't the one placed around my throat, but the collar I place around my heart and soul. You won't see it nor will anyone else for that matter. You can't force that either.

JeffBC -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/2/2013 10:44:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kevin32 It seems the dynamic of the master/slave relationship is guided by consent and respect for all persons involved. Yeah, "consent" is a big one round these parts. quote: Was there a time when you were "forced" to be submissive/compliant/obedient to someone? And by "forced" I mean against your will, but you couldn't find a way to escape your circumstance so you dealt with it and eventually grew to love it? Carol might call that "marriage".

leonine -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/2/2013 11:08:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ladyzarah How can you possibly force someone to be submissive? All too easily, alas. It's a normal defence response in an abusive situation. For the classic case study, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Colleen_Stan . "Learning to love her captor" is a stock plot in BDSM porn - John Norman made his fortune from it. When I wrote one ( http://www.silvermoonbooks.com/ebooks/b5326-living-doll.htm ), I felt it necessary to note on the front page this was fantasy, and don't try it at home. But there are always people who believe that a Superman cape can make them fly.

egern -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/3/2013 2:28:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kevin32 It seems the dynamic of the master/slave relationship is guided by consent and respect for all persons involved. Was there a time when you were "forced" to be submissive/compliant/obedient to someone? And by "forced" I mean against your will, but you couldn't find a way to escape your circumstance so you dealt with it and eventually grew to love it? I think that this is a very common fantasy - note the popular Gor books and many others - but not something that would work very well in the real world, except perhaps in very rare cases. The problem is, of course, that trying it out would be criminal as well as unethical, and if you have those dreams and talk about them, you have sort of consented. I myself would go ballistic if anyone tried it with me, though it is a hot fantasy :-) Going a bit over the limits in play is something different, which many use.

egern -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/3/2013 2:32:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kevin32 I find it funny that a question I asked about someone else's experience would be turned around to imply something was wrong with me. Oh, this happens A LOT here! quote: Yes, I'm new to BDSM and inquisitive about this world. But any question I ask does not imply that I want to partake in its nature. I just like to know about different experiences from others who've been there, and what's it like from their perspective. I do appreciate those who were forthcoming with a response. Yes, as a new person it is right to ask questions. (And even if you are an old hand.) And if you had in fact been more or less serious about it, it is even more important that you test that idea on other people, and get their reactions. IMO you did the right thing, whatever.

egern -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/3/2013 2:40:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: kevin32 I find it funny that a question I asked about someone else's experience would be turned around to imply something was wrong with me. Yes, I'm new to BDSM and inquisitive about this world. But any question I ask does not imply that I want to partake in its nature. I just like to know about different experiences from others who've been there, and what's it like from their perspective. I do appreciate those who were forthcoming with a response. mostly I was kidding you, there can be submissive that maybe like the idea of the person they fancy to dominate them without asking, but when you used the words "against your will" in a sexual scenario then the only response you can have from real people is "that's called rape", becuse it is. Than in general BDSMers like to talk and discuss, some also signing contracts so connect the odds. I think we are walking a tight line between fantasy and reality here, political correctness not withstanding. Is 'dominate without asking' force against your will? Is going over the limits in a play going against your will? I think the fantasy is great and many people might want to get as close to it as possible - but by that very nature it is not really against their will. To my knowledge some have enacted fantasies for others that concerned 'rape' or 'attack' or 'taken prisoner' at unexpected times, but again, while it came unexpected and with unknown people and force, it was not against people's will but something wanted. While it is of paramount importance to distinguish between fantasy and reality, it must also be possible to discuss the fantasy.

egern -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/3/2013 2:42:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetAnise What you're talking about is ABUSE. Forced slavery is against the law and a criminal act. Also, it is a very personal question to ask someone to divulge an experience on a forum to you. Of course someone might but most who have experienced this kind of abuse...do not want to speak about their experiences on a BDSM forum. They usually speak about it with a licensed professional or a forum who provides supportive counseling to help these individuals deal with the trauma. I think we should leave to people what they want to ask, and answer.

leonine -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/3/2013 3:16:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: egern quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: kevin32 I find it funny that a question I asked about someone else's experience would be turned around to imply something was wrong with me. Yes, I'm new to BDSM and inquisitive about this world. But any question I ask does not imply that I want to partake in its nature. I just like to know about different experiences from others who've been there, and what's it like from their perspective. I do appreciate those who were forthcoming with a response. mostly I was kidding you, there can be submissive that maybe like the idea of the person they fancy to dominate them without asking, but when you used the words "against your will" in a sexual scenario then the only response you can have from real people is "that's called rape", becuse it is. Than in general BDSMers like to talk and discuss, some also signing contracts so connect the odds. I think we are walking a tight line between fantasy and reality here, political correctness not withstanding. Inisisting on the primary importance of consent in BDSM is not political correctness. It's the difference between a paintball game and a school shooting. quote: Is 'dominate without asking' force against your will? Normally, yes, by definition. When I've been in a long lasting relationship with a sub or slave, there have been times when I've felt justified in taking control when she was protesting that she didn't want it here or now or whatever I was after, and forcing her to accept my will and submit with a fight and come to enjoy it. To date, it's always worked out well. But that's because in a situation like that her consent is already implied, and I'm just working over a short term hitch. If I were to do the same thing with a stranger, I'd probably end up in jail, and rightly so. quote: Is going over the limits in a play going against your will? Again, there've been times when I've felt that the consent to do that, to push through a limit in the face of the sub's protests and resistance, was implicit in our relationship. But again, only with someone I knew well and who trusted me deeply. I did it once absent such intimacy and consent, when I was swept away by a super-hot scene with a casual play partner, and my only excuse is that I was listening for a safeword and didn't hear one: she herself was so caught up in the scene that she forgot she had a safeword. But she had told me her limits, and I did break them without consent, and I was wrong. quote: I think the fantasy is great and many people might want to get as close to it as possible - but by that very nature it is not really against their will. To my knowledge some have enacted fantasies for others that concerned 'rape' or 'attack' or 'taken prisoner' at unexpected times, but again, while it came unexpected and with unknown people and force, it was not against people's will but something wanted. While it is of paramount importance to distinguish between fantasy and reality, it must also be possible to discuss the fantasy. Absolutely, and I love to discuss the fantasy till the slaves come home, not to mention play at it (Want to be kidnapped and broken by force? I can arrange it.) and write books about it. But this started with a post that sounded, at best, vague about the dividing line. And that is a hot button for a lot of people here, as it should be.

evesgrden -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/3/2013 8:45:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kevin32 It seems the dynamic of the master/slave relationship is guided by consent and respect for all persons involved. Was there a time when you were "forced" to be submissive/compliant/obedient to someone? And by "forced" I mean against your will, but you couldn't find a way to escape your circumstance so you dealt with it and eventually grew to love it? Prisons Apartheid Pre-Emancipation Proclamation Slave trafficing today yeah... they loved it. Or at least that's what they said. Of course saying otherwise wouldn't be too healthy.

kalikshama -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/3/2013 10:38:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leonine quote: ORIGINAL: ladyzarah How can you possibly force someone to be submissive? All too easily, alas. It's a normal defence response in an abusive situation. For the classic case study, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Colleen_Stan . I didn't want to be the one to bring up the book Perfect Victim: The True Story of the Girl in the Box, which was written by the DA who successfully prosecuted Colleen Stan's kidnapper and abuser. At one point, Colleen did profess love for her kidnapper, but this was after extreme abuse and when she thought he was protecting her and her family from worse treatment.

njlauren -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/3/2013 4:35:44 PM)
The reason people reacted negatively was because as someone saying they were new and a potential dominant, a question like that, whatever the intent, is going to raise red flags, with the idea being could this person be asking this because they get off on it, and potentially may want to try it with someone? (no, I am not saying the OP wants to do this, I am saying why people reacted). The problem is such things are wank fodder in extreme fantasies, because the reality of forced slavery and so forth is that it is brutal and if a victim grows to love it, it is likely because they have been so fucked up they suffer from stockholm syndrome or whatever. More importantly, where so much of what we do in BD/SM relies on consent and trust, the thought of this kind of thing makes a lot of people shudder I suspect, least it does me. The question I have for the OP is why did he ask the question? Was it he ran across this fantasy and wanted to see if it ever really happened out of curiousity (in which case, asking subs on a bd/sm forum at the least shows lack of knowledge, since the kind of scenario he is talking about is a lot of sub's worst nightmare...)? Or did he get attracted to the fantasy, and wanted to see if there was any hope he could do something like this and have it 'work'? I suspect the prior, but I am not surprised of the reaction, the horror if this kind of thing is such that if anyone has even a little bit of a question if someone who is asking it might want to try it, it hits strongly. My answer to the OP is that the reason everything is done in BD/SM with consent is because to do anything else is basically a violation of the one basic right we all have, to decide what we want for ourselves, our freedom, and takes that away. Even if I consent to a master or whatever to consent non consent, I would have given that to them, not taken away. There is plenty of these kinds of scenarios in romantic fiction, the whole noble pirate with the beautiful woman is one of those, and in reality is a joke. Pirates were neither romantic or gallant, they would probably rape the crap out of a female captive, and if they couldn't ransom her, would dump her overboard to feed the sharks.

DesFIP -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/4/2013 12:56:49 PM)
We reacted negatively because he didn't say this is his hot fantasy. And ask if anyone else shares it. Instead, he took it out of the halls of fantasy and straight into the criminal justice system. And he doesn't seem to understand that Stockholm Syndrome does not qualify as informed consent,

leonine -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/10/2013 2:30:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: ORIGINAL: leonine quote: ORIGINAL: ladyzarah How can you possibly force someone to be submissive? All too easily, alas. It's a normal defence response in an abusive situation. For the classic case study, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Colleen_Stan . I didn't want to be the one to bring up the book Perfect Victim: The True Story of the Girl in the Box, which was written by the DA who successfully prosecuted Colleen Stan's kidnapper and abuser. At one point, Colleen did profess love for her kidnapper, but this was after extreme abuse and when she thought he was protecting her and her family from worse treatment. I'm not saying it's a good thing, or that it justifies the original abuse. The fantasy of the captive who ends up professing love and forgetting about wanting to escape is based on reality, but it's still about wrecking a person's head and their life for another's pleasure, and it's related to what we do only in the way that the slave Masters here are related to Simon Legree. Rape victims will often lubricate, as a reflex response to save the vagina from more damage, but only the rapist takes that as proof that she enjoyed it really.

JeffBC -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/10/2013 9:28:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leonine Inisisting on the primary importance of consent in BDSM is not political correctness. It's the difference between a paintball game and a school shooting. Well color me evil because I don't insist on that. I'd love to because that consent card is a great "get out of jail free card" and BDSM doms love to use it. But I'm afraid that it just falls WAY too far short of the mark for me. It sort of ignores the entire concept of "dominant" and "submissive" and turns the entire thing into, exactly as you said, a "game". But sadly, in some cases it isn't a game and turning it into one is unwise. If consent were such an easy topic than figuring out what is and is not rape would be a lot easier too.

DesFIP -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/10/2013 11:18:40 AM)
Sorry Jeff, I can't agree, The way you worded this as a rapist who backhands the victim when she's yelling for the police is just being dominant. Consent is the dividing line. Not "she was asking for it by dressing like a slut." Or "she invited me in for coffee so she really did want sex and was just being coy".

HoneyBears -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/10/2013 11:34:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: leonine Inisisting on the primary importance of consent in BDSM is not political correctness. It's the difference between a paintball game and a school shooting. Well color me evil because I don't insist on that. I'd love to because that consent card is a great "get out of jail free card" and BDSM doms love to use it. But I'm afraid that it just falls WAY too far short of the mark for me. It sort of ignores the entire concept of "dominant" and "submissive" and turns the entire thing into, exactly as you said, a "game". But sadly, in some cases it isn't a game and turning it into one is unwise. If consent were such an easy topic than figuring out what is and is not rape would be a lot easier too. [sm=wtf.gif] We do not know one single adult who is ambiguous about whether sexual violation against one's will constitutes rape. This is light years beyond not comprehending what is or what is not "inappropriate touching" enforced at grade-school level, we might add. If there are grey areas pertaining to consensual non-consent, establishing a mandated safe word from the very start covers communications protocol. (After years together, couples who are attuned to non-verbal yellow-to-red-zone responses may no longer find this necessary, it goes without saying.)

shiftyw -> RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it? (11/10/2013 12:02:00 PM)
I too disagree. I do not think it is hard to figure out what is or isn't rape. Des said it well.

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