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RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/21/2013 11:07:48 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The republican party seems to be in denial/bomb-shelter mode lately....


I mean who would want to be ridiculed in public after their extortion/anarchy strategy blew up in their faces...?


No matter....patriots and regular Americans can tally the damage to our economy,in jobs and capital as well as the needlessly wasted tax dollars,


http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/17/heres-what-the-government-shutdown-cost-the-economy/


$24 billion.

"That’s according to an estimate from Standard & Poor’s. The financial services company said the shutdown, which ended with a deal late Wednesday night after 16 days, took $24 billion out of the U.S. economy, and reduced projected fourth-quarter GDP growth from 3 percent to 2.4 percent."


24 Billion....


Imagine if the republicanarchists had pushed the shutdown another month and past the default date?


48 Billion?


Or 50 Billion or more ?


Please share the shutdown stories and articles you`ve seen or your thoughts.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"Shutdown Will Cost U.S. Economy $300 Million a Day, IHS Says"


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-01/shutdown-would-cost-u-s-economy-300-million-a-day-ihs-says.html



You must be high. Can you site the specific IHS study which said that, the day the study was made public and who the key researcher was? I'd tell you how I really felt about your trite drivel and meme regurgitation if Dark Steven were not already involved in this thread. But, that would hurt your feelings. Then Steve would kick my ass.

Anyhow those figures were speculative based on very specific assumptions which were not correct. IHS also has an agenda - their survival. It is odd this type of crap makes it over here to CM.

Do not get me wrong. I am not remotely defending Republicans, saying some money was not lost or the shut down was a beneficial idea.

What kind of work has IHS done for the CIA, DOD, NGA or George Bush in the past? It is absurd and dangerous when democrats go championing IHS. It is vulgar... It would be like a Jew talking about how cool Hitler is (was).

Figure out who some of the executives are at IHS and type in their names with the most vulgar republicans you can think of (or democrats) and see what happens.

If you are utterly clueless. Start here:
http://press.ihs.com/press-release/corporate-financial/ihs-acquires-janes-information-group

< Message edited by Esinn -- 10/21/2013 11:12:02 PM >

_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/21/2013 11:19:13 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Corporations don't put money back into the economy?!? How the fuck do you get that? Isn't the point of a corporation to actually, produce something of value? And, what you're not noticing, is that individual tax returns, as a %GDP, dropped, so individuals are keeping more of their money.

Neat thing about the Bush Tax Cuts is that the % of Federal income tax revenues paid by "the rich," increased. The number of taxpayers not having a Federal tax burden increased, too. Odd, those damn tax cuts!

Actually most corporation profit goes into the pockets of shareholders. Those shareholders are overwhelming the upper class who simply hold most of their money. It is far better to tax the corporate profits and the income of the upper class at a far higher rate.

As to the share of taxes paid by the undefined rich, is it not more correct to say that since they hold ever greater percentages of the wealth in this nation it is obvious that they will pay more taxes? Would not a sane tax scheme seek to make sure all the money does not wind up in the hands of an ever shrinking few?

Consider the period when the middle class actually came into its own in this nation, 1946 to 1960. 2 things are clear about government fiscal policy, taxes were very high at the highest tax brackets and the middle class got much of those tax receipts, in the form of GI Bill benefits primarily. Now look at the nations like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands. All have high tax rates but spend most of those tax receipts on things of direct benefit to the people, health care and education.

Now look at post Reagan America. Wages for all but the very top earners is declining in real terms but productivity has reached new highs. The middle class is shrinking. A good college education is increasingly unavailable to the children of the middle class. We are fighting over whether most Americans should be bankrupted by illness. 22% of all American children live in poverty.

Which system would you prefer to live under and why?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 5:56:26 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Corporations don't put money back into the economy?!? How the fuck do you get that? Isn't the point of a corporation to actually, produce something of value? And, what you're not noticing, is that individual tax returns, as a %GDP, dropped, so individuals are keeping more of their money.
Neat thing about the Bush Tax Cuts is that the % of Federal income tax revenues paid by "the rich," increased. The number of taxpayers not having a Federal tax burden increased, too. Odd, those damn tax cuts!

Actually most corporation profit goes into the pockets of shareholders. Those shareholders are overwhelming the upper class who simply hold most of their money. It is far better to tax the corporate profits and the income of the upper class at a far higher rate.


Bullshit. They invest or save that money. Savings go back into the economy as loans. You know this shit. Without any savings, what would we "fraction" in our fractional reserve banking system? Investments go back to a Corporation as "loans" for them to expand their business.

There may be some wealthy people out there that utilize their mattresses as their "banks," but the rest are still having their money used by the economy.

quote:

As to the share of taxes paid by the undefined rich, is it not more correct to say that since they hold ever greater percentages of the wealth in this nation it is obvious that they will pay more taxes? Would not a sane tax scheme seek to make sure all the money does not wind up in the hands of an ever shrinking few?
Consider the period when the middle class actually came into its own in this nation, 1946 to 1960. 2 things are clear about government fiscal policy, taxes were very high at the highest tax brackets and the middle class got much of those tax receipts, in the form of GI Bill benefits primarily. Now look at the nations like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands. All have high tax rates but spend most of those tax receipts on things of direct benefit to the people, health care and education.
Now look at post Reagan America. Wages for all but the very top earners is declining in real terms but productivity has reached new highs. The middle class is shrinking. A good college education is increasingly unavailable to the children of the middle class. We are fighting over whether most Americans should be bankrupted by illness. 22% of all American children live in poverty.
Which system would you prefer to live under and why?


Which system? The system that allows for people to be rewarded for the success of their labors. If a person doesn't think he/she is getting paid a fair wage for his/her labors, then, that person needs to get a better job, no?

The current system is placing the Federal income tax burden primarily on those that earn more.

What is the incentive to be more productive and/or take on more risk and responsibility if you aren't going to fairly keep your earnings?

You can't blame "the rich" for 22% of children in the US living in poverty. It's not the fault of "the rich."


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 6:10:01 AM   
lostboy1989


Posts: 1
Joined: 10/19/2013
Status: offline
quote:

I mean who would want to be ridiculed in public after their extortion/anarchy strategy blew up in their faces...?

quote:

Imagine if the republicanarchists had pushed the shutdown another month and past the default date?


BTW anarchy isn't chaos or violence. The philosophical belief holds as much substance as any other.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 8:33:05 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Corporations don't put money back into the economy?!? How the fuck do you get that? Isn't the point of a corporation to actually, produce something of value? And, what you're not noticing, is that individual tax returns, as a %GDP, dropped, so individuals are keeping more of their money.
Neat thing about the Bush Tax Cuts is that the % of Federal income tax revenues paid by "the rich," increased. The number of taxpayers not having a Federal tax burden increased, too. Odd, those damn tax cuts!

Actually most corporation profit goes into the pockets of shareholders. Those shareholders are overwhelming the upper class who simply hold most of their money. It is far better to tax the corporate profits and the income of the upper class at a far higher rate.


Bullshit. They invest or save that money. Savings go back into the economy as loans. You know this shit. Without any savings, what would we "fraction" in our fractional reserve banking system? Investments go back to a Corporation as "loans" for them to expand their business.

There may be some wealthy people out there that utilize their mattresses as their "banks," but the rest are still having their money used by the economy.

Wrong and you know its wrong. The rich don't put sizeable amounts of money in bank accounts. The money goes into the stock market and just spins around in arbitrage benefiting no one but the other wealthy.

quote:

quote:

As to the share of taxes paid by the undefined rich, is it not more correct to say that since they hold ever greater percentages of the wealth in this nation it is obvious that they will pay more taxes? Would not a sane tax scheme seek to make sure all the money does not wind up in the hands of an ever shrinking few?
Consider the period when the middle class actually came into its own in this nation, 1946 to 1960. 2 things are clear about government fiscal policy, taxes were very high at the highest tax brackets and the middle class got much of those tax receipts, in the form of GI Bill benefits primarily. Now look at the nations like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands. All have high tax rates but spend most of those tax receipts on things of direct benefit to the people, health care and education.
Now look at post Reagan America. Wages for all but the very top earners is declining in real terms but productivity has reached new highs. The middle class is shrinking. A good college education is increasingly unavailable to the children of the middle class. We are fighting over whether most Americans should be bankrupted by illness. 22% of all American children live in poverty.
Which system would you prefer to live under and why?


Which system? The system that allows for people to be rewarded for the success of their labors. If a person doesn't think he/she is getting paid a fair wage for his/her labors, then, that person needs to get a better job, no?

The current system is placing the Federal income tax burden primarily on those that earn more.

What is the incentive to be more productive and/or take on more risk and responsibility if you aren't going to fairly keep your earnings?

You can't blame "the rich" for 22% of children in the US living in poverty. It's not the fault of "the rich."


Those systems allow people to be rewarded for their success. What they don't do is allow them to impoverish the rest of society because of accidents of birth.

And yes it absolutely is the fault of the rich in the US that 22% of our children live in poverty. They are the ones that have systematically undermined and sabotaged the social safety net and fought to prevent expansions of the social programs we know, from other nations experience, would greatly reduce those poverty rates. Instead the rich in this nation continue to push for policies that harm the rest of society and people who call themselves conservatives have fallen for this reactionary claptrap and support it even as they struggle harder and harder to keep their heads above water due to those same policies and people they keep voting for.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 9:30:48 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Corporations don't put money back into the economy?!? How the fuck do you get that? Isn't the point of a corporation to actually, produce something of value? And, what you're not noticing, is that individual tax returns, as a %GDP, dropped, so individuals are keeping more of their money.
Neat thing about the Bush Tax Cuts is that the % of Federal income tax revenues paid by "the rich," increased. The number of taxpayers not having a Federal tax burden increased, too. Odd, those damn tax cuts!

Actually most corporation profit goes into the pockets of shareholders. Those shareholders are overwhelming the upper class who simply hold most of their money. It is far better to tax the corporate profits and the income of the upper class at a far higher rate.

Bullshit. They invest or save that money. Savings go back into the economy as loans. You know this shit. Without any savings, what would we "fraction" in our fractional reserve banking system? Investments go back to a Corporation as "loans" for them to expand their business.
There may be some wealthy people out there that utilize their mattresses as their "banks," but the rest are still having their money used by the economy.

Wrong and you know its wrong. The rich don't put sizeable amounts of money in bank accounts. The money goes into the stock market and just spins around in arbitrage benefiting no one but the other wealthy.


Really? There is no use for that money anywhere? Corporations don't have any benefit for the money invested in their stocks?

quote:

quote:

quote:

As to the share of taxes paid by the undefined rich, is it not more correct to say that since they hold ever greater percentages of the wealth in this nation it is obvious that they will pay more taxes? Would not a sane tax scheme seek to make sure all the money does not wind up in the hands of an ever shrinking few?
Consider the period when the middle class actually came into its own in this nation, 1946 to 1960. 2 things are clear about government fiscal policy, taxes were very high at the highest tax brackets and the middle class got much of those tax receipts, in the form of GI Bill benefits primarily. Now look at the nations like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands. All have high tax rates but spend most of those tax receipts on things of direct benefit to the people, health care and education.
Now look at post Reagan America. Wages for all but the very top earners is declining in real terms but productivity has reached new highs. The middle class is shrinking. A good college education is increasingly unavailable to the children of the middle class. We are fighting over whether most Americans should be bankrupted by illness. 22% of all American children live in poverty.
Which system would you prefer to live under and why?

Which system? The system that allows for people to be rewarded for the success of their labors. If a person doesn't think he/she is getting paid a fair wage for his/her labors, then, that person needs to get a better job, no?
The current system is placing the Federal income tax burden primarily on those that earn more.
What is the incentive to be more productive and/or take on more risk and responsibility if you aren't going to fairly keep your earnings?
You can't blame "the rich" for 22% of children in the US living in poverty. It's not the fault of "the rich."

Those systems allow people to be rewarded for their success. What they don't do is allow them to impoverish the rest of society because of accidents of birth.
And yes it absolutely is the fault of the rich in the US that 22% of our children live in poverty. They are the ones that have systematically undermined and sabotaged the social safety net and fought to prevent expansions of the social programs we know, from other nations experience, would greatly reduce those poverty rates. Instead the rich in this nation continue to push for policies that harm the rest of society and people who call themselves conservatives have fallen for this reactionary claptrap and support it even as they struggle harder and harder to keep their heads above water due to those same policies and people they keep voting for.


This is utter bullshit (it would be udder bullshit if bulls had udders). How do the rich get their policies put in place? Buying Government, maybe? That's not on the rich. That's on government. Taxing the rich more doesn't change that government is bought.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 9:44:08 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You can't blame "the rich" for 22% of children in the US living in poverty. It's not the fault of "the rich."

Really? So then that old adage "follow the money" has no merit, right? And I should simply ignore the hundreds of billions the rich spend to shape our society. I'm sorry but when people take concrete action I feel fine in judging them for those actions. Yeah, it IS the rich.

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” -- Warren Buffet

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 10:04:38 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Really? There is no use for that money anywhere? Corporations don't have any benefit for the money invested in their stocks?

After the stock is bought from the corporation it is of zero value to the corporation. All the stock arbitrage is completely irrelevant to the corporation.

quote:

This is utter bullshit (it would be udder bullshit if bulls had udders). How do the rich get their policies put in place? Buying Government, maybe? That's not on the rich. That's on government. Taxing the rich more doesn't change that government is bought.

Taxing the rich high enough that wealth stopped being concentrated at the top would take control of government back from the wealthy, as it could only be accomplished by removing their influence.

Trust me on this, it will happen one way or another soon. the present situation is not sustainable.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 10:30:13 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You can't blame "the rich" for 22% of children in the US living in poverty. It's not the fault of "the rich."

Really? So then that old adage "follow the money" has no merit, right? And I should simply ignore the hundreds of billions the rich spend to shape our society. I'm sorry but when people take concrete action I feel fine in judging them for those actions. Yeah, it IS the rich.
“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” -- Warren Buffet


And what is he doing to stop that? Blowing a lot of smoke, no? Does he pony up his wealth and donate it to the Feds? Not likely.

Do the Democrats in the Federal Government that rail about the rich not paying their fair share pony up and not take their lawful deductions? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some don't take their deductions, but I also wouldn't be surprised to find out that those are in the vast minority.

If we have elected leaders that weren't for sale, there would be no issue. Don't put a bandaid on the wound, fix the fucking disease.

Congress will be bought if they are for sale. If not by Big Biz, then by Big Union, or Big whatever. The taxpayers aren't going to get a fair shake until corruption is reduced.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 10:39:45 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Really? There is no use for that money anywhere? Corporations don't have any benefit for the money invested in their stocks?

After the stock is bought from the corporation it is of zero value to the corporation. All the stock arbitrage is completely irrelevant to the corporation.
quote:

This is utter bullshit (it would be udder bullshit if bulls had udders). How do the rich get their policies put in place? Buying Government, maybe? That's not on the rich. That's on government. Taxing the rich more doesn't change that government is bought.

Taxing the rich high enough that wealth stopped being concentrated at the top would take control of government back from the wealthy, as it could only be accomplished by removing their influence.
Trust me on this, it will happen one way or another soon. the present situation is not sustainable.


Nearly half of all wage earners aren't paying Federal taxes (net). Federal income taxes from individuals is down 0.5% GDP and the amount of that burden on the "wealthy" is higher than it was in 2000.

We are about the same level of revenues (%GDP) as before, but that's not good enough (even though that was the metric you stated). Revenues are there. Expenditures are the problem (even according to your metric).






_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 11:07:19 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Really? There is no use for that money anywhere? Corporations don't have any benefit for the money invested in their stocks?

After the stock is bought from the corporation it is of zero value to the corporation. All the stock arbitrage is completely irrelevant to the corporation.
quote:

This is utter bullshit (it would be udder bullshit if bulls had udders). How do the rich get their policies put in place? Buying Government, maybe? That's not on the rich. That's on government. Taxing the rich more doesn't change that government is bought.

Taxing the rich high enough that wealth stopped being concentrated at the top would take control of government back from the wealthy, as it could only be accomplished by removing their influence.
Trust me on this, it will happen one way or another soon. the present situation is not sustainable.


Nearly half of all wage earners aren't paying Federal taxes (net). Federal income taxes from individuals is down 0.5% GDP and the amount of that burden on the "wealthy" is higher than it was in 2000.

We are about the same level of revenues (%GDP) as before, but that's not good enough (even though that was the metric you stated). Revenues are there. Expenditures are the problem (even according to your metric).

No. The problem is we've had a tax structure that allows the concentration of wealth at the top for so long people like you think it's a good diea.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 12:27:45 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
No. The problem is we've had a tax structure that allows the concentration of wealth at the top for so long people like you think it's a good diea.


People like me?

Yeah, it's a damn shame people like me think that you should be rewarded for taking risks and for working. People like me who want government to stop coddling people who would otherwise be able to provide for themselves, making it almost better to rely on government subsidization than not. People like me who think that more and more laws aren't the answer, but actually enforcing the ones we have on the books would be a better start. People like me who would rather have control of their property and have incentives to gain more.

Yeah, it's a damn shame there are sooooo many people like me.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 12:44:52 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
No. The problem is we've had a tax structure that allows the concentration of wealth at the top for so long people like you think it's a good diea.


People like me?

Yeah, it's a damn shame people like me think that you should be rewarded for taking risks and for working. People like me who want government to stop coddling people who would otherwise be able to provide for themselves, making it almost better to rely on government subsidization than not. People like me who think that more and more laws aren't the answer, but actually enforcing the ones we have on the books would be a better start. People like me who would rather have control of their property and have incentives to gain more.

Yeah, it's a damn shame there are sooooo many people like me.


That's nonsense and you should know it.

Why should the Koch brothers be wealthy? They didn't build anything. Why should the Walton children be wealthy? they didn't succeed at anything.

The fact is as long as we allow the wealthy to accumulate wealth the rest of society will become increasingly stratified and opportunity will dwindle so it does not matter how hard some one works they aren't going to be better off. Just consider the former small businessmen all through rural America driven out of business by Wal-Mart. Many now work at Wal-Mart in the same jobs they used to do in businesses they owned and they now do it for subsistence wages at best. What about the skilled machine operator who now works at minimum wage in the service sector because the Romneys of this world closed all the factories and shipped the equipment to Bangladesh where the desperate people will work for pennies a day.

Without major government intervention you will not have control of your destiny and it is foolish to believe otherwise.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 1:02:17 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
No. The problem is we've had a tax structure that allows the concentration of wealth at the top for so long people like you think it's a good diea.

People like me?
Yeah, it's a damn shame people like me think that you should be rewarded for taking risks and for working. People like me who want government to stop coddling people who would otherwise be able to provide for themselves, making it almost better to rely on government subsidization than not. People like me who think that more and more laws aren't the answer, but actually enforcing the ones we have on the books would be a better start. People like me who would rather have control of their property and have incentives to gain more.
Yeah, it's a damn shame there are sooooo many people like me.

That's nonsense and you should know it.
Why should the Koch brothers be wealthy? They didn't build anything. Why should the Walton children be wealthy? they didn't succeed at anything.
The fact is as long as we allow the wealthy to accumulate wealth the rest of society will become increasingly stratified and opportunity will dwindle so it does not matter how hard some one works they aren't going to be better off. Just consider the former small businessmen all through rural America driven out of business by Wal-Mart. Many now work at Wal-Mart in the same jobs they used to do in businesses they owned and they now do it for subsistence wages at best. What about the skilled machine operator who now works at minimum wage in the service sector because the Romneys of this world closed all the factories and shipped the equipment to Bangladesh where the desperate people will work for pennies a day.
Without major government intervention you will not have control of your destiny and it is foolish to believe otherwise.


Why shouldn't they be wealthy? Sam Walton built WalMart. While his children didn't, that's not the point. Sam Walton built it, and he should have the right to determine who the beneficiaries are of his wealth. That speaks to the "On Property" thread.

Is it the kid's fault if he was born into a family low on the socioeconomic ladder? Of course not. Is it my fault? Of course not. Did my parents work hard so my siblings and I could have what we needed? Sure did. At one point, my Dad was going to grad school full time, worked a full time night job and worked part time on weekends. This was while my Mom was pregnant with me, and (2nd child). Did his Dad work his ass off so his kids (my Dad, my Uncle and my Aunt) could have a better life? Sure did. My Dad's Dad was a 1st-Generation American.

It takes a lot of work to get out of poverty and bad socioeconomic situations. I'm not to blame for a kid's forebears not putting that work in. Mine had to, and I'm definitely not a 1%-er by any stretch of the imagination.

Why should government get the product of my family's labors? Why should someone else get the product of my family's labors (unless we choose to give it)? Those born into adverse socioeconomic situations didn't work for Sam Walton's money, either.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 1:14:45 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Right..... the phony vacation outrage....



I did mention the right was in denial...didn`t I?

Far less phony than your phony claim that the Republicans caused the shut-down. It was the Democrats who adamantly and repeatedly refused to negotiate.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 1:48:40 PM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		The House caused the shut down, and who controls the House? Pretty simple there Racer, you could have figured that out all by yourself....ALMOST

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RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 2:15:16 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
If we have elected leaders that weren't for sale, there would be no issue. Don't put a bandaid on the wound, fix the fucking disease.

Congress will be bought if they are for sale. If not by Big Biz, then by Big Union, or Big whatever. The taxpayers aren't going to get a fair shake until corruption is reduced.

Not arguing that DS. I just think it's one-sided. Yeah, I blame the politicians (and therefor the citizenry). Yup, we are getting the government we deserve. That being said, I also blame the people who are doing the buying. Takes two to tango and all that...

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 3:51:18 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

OP, you seem to think that there is "a GOP". I disagree.

IMO, the GOP is currently split in two distinct factions. The moderates will blame the rightists for the shutdown and its attendant costs. The rightists will argue that the cost is trivial compared to the entire budget (as subrob did above) and/or that the failure was due to the moderates wimping out.

A fair point, Steven, but if the GOP can't be bothered to bring the lunatic fringe of the party to heel, then the spineless alleged moderates who let them run wild need to learn to deal with getting tarred with the same brush.


1. Boehner is a weak man. Considering the men (and Pelosi) that he followed, remarkably so.
2. The RNC and DNC traditionally controlled their members through campaign funding. The Tea Partiers have their own funding sources, unaffiliated with the RNC.


Sadly, the rest of the Republican party are no longer above taking funding from the same sources as the teabaggers. It would be nice to think that those are the only dickheads with an allergy to reality in the GOP, but they're currently just another lunatic rightist faction among many others, all hellbent on pursuing whatever agenda their donors tell them to.

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RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 4:47:33 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline 		Fast reply....not directed at any distinct comment:

I don't understand why anyone gives a shit what the Democrats or the Republicans do....or don't do.

(What amazes me is how many people vote for them).

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: What The republicans Cost Us... - 10/22/2013 5:12:23 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Fast reply....not directed at any distinct comment:

I don't understand why anyone gives a shit what the Democrats or the Republicans do....or don't do.

(What amazes me is how many people vote for them).


What amazes me is how violently people support them.

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(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 40
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