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ORIGINAL: egern
I see individual fights as very different from war, because in the first case two or more humans choose to solve something with violence, in war someone in charge sends a whole mob of people into the dispute.

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Is war a part of human nature? Or is it depending on circumstances?

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That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

What a silly topic.

War and poverty will always be with us - as will greed, dishonesty violence.

Was is clausewitz who said war is diplomacy by other methods? Its also the opposite - economic competition is war by different means. Diplomacy is war by different means.

War reflects disparity in power. It can be redressed peacebly (which is why america is losing so many drops and has a living standard dropping like a rock) - or violently - like is happening in syria.

What amuses me is that anyone would be so doey-eyed to think it war possible to eliminate.

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ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Don't forget that modern wars are, as much as anything else, a matter of reflex. World War 1 is a good example: no one knew why it started, or who started it (Serbia), or what they were fighting about, or how to fight it, or how to win, or how to end it. The whole ghastly mess was a spontaneous explosion brought on by people who were too afraid of 'them' to think rationally, and a system which presumed the worst, and got it. And if you think this is in the past, look at the endless conditioned knee-jerk reaction we've demonstrated in the last fifty years or so - first against the 'Red Menace', and now with 'Terrorism'. It's not to say that wars sometimes have to be fought, but those cases are fewer than one might think.

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I get your distinction. I'm just not sure that anything else is possible in the human species. We self-organize into structures where "someone" is in charge then that someone makes decisions -- including who we go to kill and be killed by. This is the game of thrones in real life and I'm not sure there's anything to be done about it.

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You may see that but I'd argue that you are a human blinded by human thinking. Compared to which other species on the planet are we not very violent? We have everything from road rage to random gang killings to war. We slaughter ourselves and everything around us in wholesale job lots like no other species I can name. We are not very "pretty" as a species goes.

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I was referring to the original science paper not a pseudo-scientist writing about science in a sensationalist fashion.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If war and violence are part of 'human nature', then why is it that people around the world spend almost all of their lives without indulging in war and/or violence? Why is it that sane people only resort to war and violence when all other avenues of conflict resolution have been thoroughly exhausted?

If one is to evaluate war and violence in terms of human nature, surely it is far more accurate to conclude that it is human nature to avoid war and violence.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

See "American Declaration of Independence"

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That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

What a silly topic.

War and poverty will always be with us - as will greed, dishonesty violence.

Was is clausewitz who said war is diplomacy by other methods? Its also the opposite - economic competition is war by different means. Diplomacy is war by different means.

War reflects disparity in power. It can be redressed peacebly (which is why america is losing so many drops and has a living standard dropping like a rock) - or violently - like is happening in syria.

What amuses me is that anyone would be so doey-eyed to think it war possible to eliminate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

What a silly topic.

War and poverty will always be with us - as will greed, dishonesty violence.

Was is clausewitz who said war is diplomacy by other methods? Its also the opposite - economic competition is war by different means. Diplomacy is war by different means.

War reflects disparity in power. It can be redressed peacebly (which is why america is losing so many drops and has a living standard dropping like a rock) - or violently - like is happening in syria.

What amuses me is that anyone would be so doey-eyed to think it war possible to eliminate.

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ORIGINAL: egern
Hm. It is my impression that a lot of people think like that, and I admit that it is easy to do, much too easy.. But, I also think that that is part of the problem, which might make us pawns for the people for whom wars is an advantage. Is that not one reason for democracy - that we can have some influence on such important matters? Or are we completely helpless in the hands of the power mongers, like the unfortunate peasants in Medieval times who both fed society and were slaves in it?

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ORIGINAL: JeffBC

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ORIGINAL: egern
Hm. It is my impression that a lot of people think like that, and I admit that it is easy to do, much too easy.. But, I also think that that is part of the problem, which might make us pawns for the people for whom wars is an advantage. Is that not one reason for democracy - that we can have some influence on such important matters? Or are we completely helpless in the hands of the power mongers, like the unfortunate peasants in Medieval times who both fed society and were slaves in it?

I don't know that you can even think of it as a problem. It is how we are. Democracy is an attempt to reverse that... an attempt which has obviously failed. Honestly, I think the cycle goes something like this... reasonably good times for the masses -> political laziness -> concentration of power -> abuse of power -> bloody revolt... rinse/repeat. Democracy has turned out to be more like kabuki theater than actual politics. The real politics happens behind closed doors among the powerful.

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ORIGINAL: egern
I have an idea that the less centralized a country is, the more democracy.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If war and violence are part of 'human nature', then why is it that people around the world spend almost all of their lives without indulging in war and/or violence? Why is it that sane people only resort to war and violence when all other avenues of conflict resolution have been thoroughly exhausted?

If one is to evaluate war and violence in terms of human nature, surely it is far more accurate to conclude that it is human nature to avoid war and violence.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: egern
I have an idea that the less centralized a country is, the more democracy.

Please expound on what you mean by that statement, and how that idea would look.