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I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 6:34:59 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

Parent accuses Texas high school football coach of bullying after 91-0 blowout game

The coach of a Texas high school football team has been accused of bullying in a formal complaint after his team beat another school 91-0.

In the complaint, the dad of a player on the Western Hills High School football team claims Aledo High School football coach Tim Buchanan encouraged his players to bully their opponents by running up the score. Buchanan learned of the online complaint against him Saturday, the day after his team beat Western Hills in a 4A matchup.

Source

I played football in high school, 30+ years ago, and I went to a "power house" school. Most seasons we were either unscored on or had a very low score against us. However we never had a blowout like this.

Now high school football in Texas can be considered a religion. Fights have broken out between parents of opposing teams over scores, ref calls, just about anything.

But this parent seems to be thinking that the winning coach should have told his players to play below par, or take a knee, or lay down. The losing coach could have asked for the game to be called early, if he so desired.

My question is simple, is it ethical to tell a player not to play at his best?

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Post #: 1

RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 6:38:30 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Parent accuses Texas high school football coach of bullying after 91-0 blowout game

The coach of a Texas high school football team has been accused of bullying in a formal complaint after his team beat another school 91-0.

In the complaint, the dad of a player on the Western Hills High School football team claims Aledo High School football coach Tim Buchanan encouraged his players to bully their opponents by running up the score. Buchanan learned of the online complaint against him Saturday, the day after his team beat Western Hills in a 4A matchup.

Source

I played football in high school, 30+ years ago, and I went to a "power house" school. Most seasons we were either unscored on or had a very low score against us. However we never had a blowout like this.

Now high school football in Texas can be considered a religion. Fights have broken out between parents of opposing teams over scores, ref calls, just about anything.

But this parent seems to be thinking that the winning coach should have told his players to play below par, or take a knee, or lay down. The losing coach could have asked for the game to be called early, if he so desired.

My question is simple, is it ethical to tell a player not to play at his best?

I don't think it is, in fact I think it is very important to teach a kid to do his best.

As to the losing coach, I have heard some pretty lame excuses made after losing a game, but I think this one might deserve some kind of award.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 6:50:42 AM

Marc2b

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No, a coach should not tell his players to play below their ability. From what I understand the coach of the winning team did try to slow the slaughter up some by pulling his first string and calling only running plays... what more could he do? The coach of the loosing team could have (I presume) forfeited but one could argue against that as a matter of pride.

In the end the facts are simple: The winning team is really awesome. The loosing team really sucks. Or both.

The father who filed the complaint is being a wuss as well as devaluing what "bullying" really means.

The kids on the loosing team will get over this, hell they'll probably laugh about it in time. I can see a scene twenty, twenty-five years from now... a high school football player is really depressed because his team just got beat by thirty-five points. His father puts his arm around him and says, "son... let me tell you about this one game I played in..."

ETA: Just for the heck of it.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 10/23/2013 7:38:35 AM >

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 7:18:48 AM

eulero83

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Joined: 11/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Parent accuses Texas high school football coach of bullying after 91-0 blowout game

The coach of a Texas high school football team has been accused of bullying in a formal complaint after his team beat another school 91-0.

In the complaint, the dad of a player on the Western Hills High School football team claims Aledo High School football coach Tim Buchanan encouraged his players to bully their opponents by running up the score. Buchanan learned of the online complaint against him Saturday, the day after his team beat Western Hills in a 4A matchup.

Source

I played football in high school, 30+ years ago, and I went to a "power house" school. Most seasons we were either unscored on or had a very low score against us. However we never had a blowout like this.

Now high school football in Texas can be considered a religion. Fights have broken out between parents of opposing teams over scores, ref calls, just about anything.

But this parent seems to be thinking that the winning coach should have told his players to play below par, or take a knee, or lay down. The losing coach could have asked for the game to be called early, if he so desired.

My question is simple, is it ethical to tell a player not to play at his best?

Was it female american football?

sexist jokes apart it's“unsportsmanlike conduct” to not give the best, in tennis rules a player who don't do it's best is penalized, in rugby it is considered offensive for the opponents to not play at your best, in cycling is accepted to agree in splitting prizes in order to form alliances after breaking away from the main group and keep on drafting, in proper football when the score is high they slow down the game and close in defence to not risk more, but I never heard of a sport where not giving your best was accepted when not a tactic.
I think sport main educational point is to face your real limits, if that was a too big dose of reality in one single day it's not the winning team fault.

If after the game the winning players team went on mocking or offending the loosing team, yes that was different and unsportsmanlike conduct, but it's another thing to complain about the score.

edit: the only responsible the coach had was to call plays that would lower the risk of injures as the score was safe being american football a game with hard contacts, but nothing more.

< Message edited by eulero83 -- 10/23/2013 7:21:37 AM >

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Post #: 4

RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 7:29:26 AM

theshytype

Posts: 1600
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quote:

My question is simple, is it ethical to tell a player not to play at his best?

No. I agree with the others that they should be encouraged to play their best.

The way these kids are raised today bothers me. Between the participation medals and feel good report cards, there's no encouragement anymore for children to want to exceed or set themselves apart from the rest of the group.
It is okay to be average, but it is also okay to be above-average. Only the first is truly being encouraged IMO.
This case is an example of the mentality that I see becoming more and more common with parents and an apparent fear of having their child's feelings hurt. When I was a kid, if I received second place or lower, it made me work harder towards that first place. If I had lost a game such as this team did, it would either make me work extremely harder or realize I need to look for a different sport.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 11:11:54 AM

jlf1961

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Part of the problem is that the winning school was recently put in a different district, one that has not had a strong football program. I understand taking a powerhouse school out of a district where it dominates the sport and putting it in a district that has teams on the same level, but this makes no sense.

It is like matching a bantam weight boxer against a heavy weight.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 1:32:33 PM

eulero83

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Part of the problem is that the winning school was recently put in a different district, one that has not had a strong football program. I understand taking a powerhouse school out of a district where it dominates the sport and putting it in a district that has teams on the same level, but this makes no sense.

It is like matching a bantam weight boxer against a heavy weight.

ok but if I'm 14 years old and run the 1000m in 3'10" maybe I'm the best in my school but I must be aware a good time is 2'50" and to reach the national I probably need 2'35". It was one game, that team will reach play-off you wouldn't won the state championship anyway, have fun during the other games...

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 1:58:29 PM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Part of the problem is that the winning school was recently put in a different district, one that has not had a strong football program. I understand taking a powerhouse school out of a district where it dominates the sport and putting it in a district that has teams on the same level, but this makes no sense.

It is like matching a bantam weight boxer against a heavy weight.

ok but if I'm 14 years old and run the 1000m in 3'10" maybe I'm the best in my school but I must be aware a good time is 2'50" and to reach the national I probably need 2'35". It was one game, that team will reach play-off you wouldn't won the state championship anyway, have fun during the other games...

If you would have read the article,

quote:

The Bearcats' average victory margin in four district games is 77 points.

That means that Aledo High School is not just winning, but they are wiping the field with opposing teams.

quote:

The University Interscholastic League bases its realignment decisions on enrollment and geographic location to minimize travel time, a move aimed at reducing class absences. When Aledo was placed in a different district before last season, its travel time to the furthest location was cut from two hours to about 35 miles, Buchanan said

I have problems with the above, since the school I go to has an average travel distance to away games of 2 1/2 hours one way. I now for a fact that some schools in far west Texas have travel times of 3 and four hours.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 2:15:05 PM

eulero83

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I need more information on how the system works, they play games in their district than what happens? do the teams who had the best record in the districts play like regional playoffs and then state championship or is it just district games and nothing after?

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 2:34:14 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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What the winning coach should have done, once it was apparent that they were going to win, would be sit his first string players and let the second stringers out for a change.

In every other high school sport there's a mercy rule. If you're winning a baseball game in the fifth or sixth inning by x amount of runs, the game ends then. Football doesn't have that, but the second string should have been allowed to actually play in a game for a change. The winning coach not only was unsportsmanlike to the losing team, he didn't do what was best for his team. Not just the stars but all of the other players.

My son spent most of senior year on the bench. He hadn't gotten his full height or muscles. But they won sectional that year and he cherishes those fourth quarters when the first string sat down and he got to play.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 2:41:37 PM

eulero83

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

What the winning coach should have done, once it was apparent that they were going to win, would be sit his first string players and let the second stringers out for a change.

In every other high school sport there's a mercy rule. If you're winning a baseball game in the fifth or sixth inning by x amount of runs, the game ends then. Football doesn't have that, but the second string should have been allowed to actually play in a game for a change. The winning coach not only was unsportsmanlike to the losing team, he didn't do what was best for his team. Not just the stars but all of the other players.

he did it, for what I read in the article he let play also the backups of beckups.
baseball if I'm not wrong has no time limit and if one team can't eliminate opponents players the inings go on, isn't it? so a mercy rule is necessary to not have too long games.

< Message edited by eulero83 -- 10/23/2013 2:44:42 PM >

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 2:42:39 PM

DesFIP

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Eulero, assuming Texas works like New York, here you play against other schools in your area that have the same number of students in the school. If you win that, which here is referred to as winning your section, then you play against the winner of the nearest section in the same division - division meaning similar school size. And if you won that, you would play against a school in your division further away. And so on until you get to play for the state championship.

College games work the same. My daughter's equestrian team was D III so they traveled up to four hours to play against other D III teams. But more than that was unfair if they needed to provide some horses. Unfair to the horses, not the kids apparently.

I do understand them redrawing the district lines though. Football for my son involved no more than a two hour ride each way. And I have to confess that although I went to the nearby games, I didn't drive to the farthest one to watch.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 2:53:46 PM

eulero83

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Eulero, assuming Texas works like New York, here you play against other schools in your area that have the same number of students in the school. If you win that, which here is referred to as winning your section, then you play against the winner of the nearest section in the same division - division meaning similar school size. And if you won that, you would play against a school in your division further away. And so on until you get to play for the state championship.

College games work the same. My daughter's equestrian team was D III so they traveled up to four hours to play against other D III teams. But more than that was unfair if they needed to provide some horses. Unfair to the horses, not the kids apparently.

I do understand them redrawing the district lines though. Football for my son involved no more than a two hour ride each way. And I have to confess that although I went to the nearby games, I didn't drive to the farthest one to watch.

Ok so in my point of view there are not enough good team in that district to make it a fair competition or there are better teams with less possibilities to reach playoffs than bad teams, if you have only one good team in your district you should shut up and thank there are not even more.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 4:45:25 PM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

What the winning coach should have done, once it was apparent that they were going to win, would be sit his first string players and let the second stringers out for a change.

In every other high school sport there's a mercy rule. If you're winning a baseball game in the fifth or sixth inning by x amount of runs, the game ends then. Football doesn't have that, but the second string should have been allowed to actually play in a game for a change. The winning coach not only was unsportsmanlike to the losing team, he didn't do what was best for his team. Not just the stars but all of the other players.

My son spent most of senior year on the bench. He hadn't gotten his full height or muscles. But they won sectional that year and he cherishes those fourth quarters when the first string sat down and he got to play.

The winning coach did bench his first string players, he switched to just running plays, no passing, and there is a mercy rule in Texas High school football for six man, not 11 man. The coaches could have agreed to end the game.

eulero, after district there are playoffs, then state championships for each division. Schools are placed in districts rated 2 through six double a, triple a or even quad a, depending on school size, attendance and other factors.

So you could have schools in the same geographic areas that are in different districts.

The first year I played in high school, we were 4 AA, second year we were in 5 AA, when I graduated the school was going to a 6 AA district. Schools below 4AA usually have six man squads, or if they field an 11 man squad, most players play iron-man, meaning they play both offense and defense.

A major change in redistricting the last few years around the major metro areas have been due to a large number of people moving to Texas, dramatically increasing the school size in a short period of time.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 4:54:17 PM

DesFIP

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I hadn't realized he had benched the first string and did what he could to make it easier on the other team. What else was he expected to do?

Could the other coach have offered that they end the game early? Or the winning coach could have suggested it also.

But perhaps it's time to institute a mercy rule in football. Considering the way the Giants have played this year, they could use one.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 5:28:10 PM

eulero83

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so they are just lucky there are no two good teams in their district, but if all districts had the same number of good teams and bad teams they would loose that way 4 times a season right? So instead of complaining they should learn sports works that way.
I competed in many individual sports, some with excellent resoults some others very poorly, but never blamed my opponents, I just kept doing what I enjoyed. For how I see it it's the winning team that should complain because they can have no good test matches during the way to playoffs.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 5:36:53 PM

DesFIP

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On any given day, any given team can beat any other given team. My son's team lost overwhelmingly to the other top team in the district the first time they played. But when they met the second time, his team won by a landslide. Looking at their stats though, we should have expected highly contested games each time coming down to the wire. You can't tell what makes the difference.

This is assuming that when they redrew the districts so the kids don't have to go so far to play, that they are up against other schools of the same size. If there's only one city within three hours and the rest are small towns with tiny student bodies to draw from, that's just unfair. You want the school's to be about the same size so they can all pick from the same number of kids instead of taking whoever wants to play, just to have 11 warm bodies on the bench.

Although my son's year, most of the team were seniors and therefore bigger and stronger than teams comprised mainly of younger kids who weren't nearly as full grown. When they played a school with almost no seniors on the team, they did win by a landslide. The theory is that with the same number of kids to choose from that won't happen much.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 5:51:58 PM

littlewonder

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I get the feeling that bullying has taken on a whole new meaning these days. It's now used to cover anything anyone doesn't like about someone. The word has basically become meaningless.

The father is just a big baby.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 6:03:07 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

What the winning coach should have done, once it was apparent that they were going to win, would be sit his first string players and let the second stringers out for a change.

In every other high school sport there's a mercy rule. If you're winning a baseball game in the fifth or sixth inning by x amount of runs, the game ends then. Football doesn't have that, but the second string should have been allowed to actually play in a game for a change. The winning coach not only was unsportsmanlike to the losing team, he didn't do what was best for his team.

That may not be correct. Some areas determine seeding by how many points are scored as well as the number of wins. In fact the BCS uses that same system.

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RE: I am a little torn about this.... - 10/23/2013 6:06:56 PM

KYsissy

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I read one of the starters carried the ball 5 times and had 4 touchdowns before he was pulled.
They also had a running clock, meaning except for injury, the clock never stops to get the game over quicker.

Once the coach puts in the third and fourth stringers, what else can he do? Those benchwarmers want to play hard too!! Is he supposed to tell them "I know you guys rarely play, but go out there and lay down!!"

I was on a losing team too. It sux. But on the rare occasions where we outmatched the other team, We knew how they felt and "good game" was what you said in the hand shake line. Learning to take a loss and get back up and keep going is a valuable lesson.

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