Spying on Spain

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Esinn -> Spying on Spain (10/27/2013 11:42:12 PM)
Right now the numbers are at 60,000,000. But if you recall initially when the Snowden Catalyst began. Most tried to down play and down size the numbers. So, I suspect over the next few weeks that number will drastically change. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/27/nsa-spain_n_4168523.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003 Suggesting this has anything to do with NATSEC (Stopping Terror), is necessary or cost effective is delusional. The endless regurgitated lies used to defend or justify such actions is strange - though typical. What is different is the gradual loss of support from within for these programs and their advocates. It is difficult to believe now even the most patriotic among them would ever buy what they are trying so desperately to sell. However, their only option is admittance of their wrong doing, lack of value they have offered and cost (harm) their actions have had. I assume many would rather go to jail, resign or continue in an almost sociopathic manner with the same ole same ole'. Possibly some have genuinely convinced themselves they are the kings and queens, the world is their AOR (Responsibility) and they - AND they alone can only do good. I am very sorry for them. But not empathetic to their self deception. Heh

NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/27/2013 11:51:54 PM)
so we're complaining about spying on a country that can't afford to do anything but export its gorgeous artists and authors as waiters and barristas and short order cooks? Are people spying on Eriu/Erin/Ireland too, today? what are the bosses of the 'spies' afraid of? That Pedro Almodovar will start a Modern Family somewhere in West Hollywood? Or hill have some of his leading men seduce members of the Macho Police? I'm glad that you are on the ball and posting things like this, but what is this really about, beneath the surface? If you scratch that surface, looking at Huffington herself, you have to ask, is this kind of a red-herring in order to question desires of sovereignty of a certain region of Spain from the rest of Spain?

Esinn -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/28/2013 4:11:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed so we're complaining about spying on a country that can't afford to do anything but export its gorgeous artists and authors as waiters and barristas and short order cooks? Are people spying on Eriu/Erin/Ireland too, today? what are the bosses of the 'spies' afraid of? That Pedro Almodovar will start a Modern Family somewhere in West Hollywood? Or hill have some of his leading men seduce members of the Macho Police? I'm glad that you are on the ball and posting things like this, but what is this really about, beneath the surface? If you scratch that surface, looking at Huffington herself, you have to ask, is this kind of a red-herring in order to question desires of sovereignty of a certain region of Spain from the rest of Spain? No. . . . . and that misses the mark. Either you are uninformed, have not left your house and just been watching porn for the last 1-2 decades (especially 6 months) or intentionally obtuse. In all fairness, I assume you are uninformed. This is very complex, most people are unable to comprehend the scope of what is going on. This might not be your case. If it is I would still recommend you try your best to understand what is going on. It is difficult but not remotely impossible. I do find it alarming you stopped reading at the huffingpost article. We have leaked documents, ex NSA, EX IC, the White house and NSA commenting on this already. Possibly it is too complicated for you.

Esinn -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/28/2013 6:25:09 AM)
This goes well beyond some people in Spain you desire to ridicule. It is not my job to help you understand the complexity of the world you live in. I would start here: http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-561287-galleryV9-dcjf.jpg Translation of that document: Not only are we spying on countless innocent (tens/hundreds of millions) of innocent Europeans and Latin Americans (without any justification) but also their embassies, executives or leaders. This is not about NATSEC (Saving us from Terrorism). This is about positioning for global information dominance of a small oligarch mostly Americans. The blowback, let alone the legal issues.... Is and ought to be (rightfully so) tremendous if POTUS (Obama or whomever) does not immediately address this.

MasterCaneman -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/28/2013 8:23:41 AM)
Pfft. Every nation spies on every other nation. They've been doing it for centuries. You never know when something interesting turns up in some tiny nation that may have benefit to your side. The only reason everyone's paying any attention is because it's been so hyped-up in the media. So we spy on Spain and Ireland? Big deal. I'll bet a buck (cause I'm cheap) that both of those nations have at least a couple spies here doing the same thing.

Esinn -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/28/2013 9:02:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman Pfft. Every nation spies on every other nation. They've been doing it for centuries. You never know when something interesting turns up in some tiny nation that may have benefit to your side. The only reason everyone's paying any attention is because it's been so hyped-up in the media. So we spy on Spain and Ireland? Big deal. I'll bet a buck (cause I'm cheap) that both of those nations have at least a couple spies here doing the same thing. I've already addressed such trite drivel many times. If you have evidence of it. Let's discuss it. I get it, it is complicated. Very few people understand it and countless others simply are not capeable of it. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4573638 Please inform me which nations have teams like SCS, TAO, SSO or SOD relevant to DEA. What programs relevant to Xkeyscore, Bullrun, Genie, Dewsweep or Dropmire are other nations actively running? Once you stop repeating stuff you heard someone else say and are ready to have an adult discussion about this as a whole, I am here.

Esinn -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/28/2013 9:09:00 AM)
I even gave a link to "STATEROOM" right above your reply. I get it your dad was Army Intel. Cool story, bro - I genuinely respect that. Your regurgitation of debunked memes still adds no value.

MasterCaneman -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/28/2013 10:00:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman Pfft. Every nation spies on every other nation. They've been doing it for centuries. You never know when something interesting turns up in some tiny nation that may have benefit to your side. The only reason everyone's paying any attention is because it's been so hyped-up in the media. So we spy on Spain and Ireland? Big deal. I'll bet a buck (cause I'm cheap) that both of those nations have at least a couple spies here doing the same thing. I've already addressed such trite drivel many times. If you have evidence of it. Let's discuss it. I get it, it is complicated. Very few people understand it and countless others simply are not capeable of it. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4573638 Please inform me which nations have teams like SCS, TAO, SSO or SOD relevant to DEA. What programs relevant to Xkeyscore, Bullrun, Genie, Dewsweep or Dropmire are other nations actively running? Once you stop repeating stuff you heard someone else say and are ready to have an adult discussion about this as a whole, I am here. Please. I'm not repeating anyone else's "drivel". This is my own opinion of the situation in terms I'm comfortable with. And I could give a wet fuck about which "alphabet agencies" and codenames are bandied about. They're irrelevant to me. I said what I said and own my opinion. And in regards to the 'adult discussion' you wish to have, my only response to that, in the words of my people: Bite Me.

Esinn -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/28/2013 11:23:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman Pfft. Every nation spies on every other nation. They've been doing it for centuries. You never know when something interesting turns up in some tiny nation that may have benefit to your side. The only reason everyone's paying any attention is because it's been so hyped-up in the media. So we spy on Spain and Ireland? Big deal. I'll bet a buck (cause I'm cheap) that both of those nations have at least a couple spies here doing the same thing. I've already addressed such trite drivel many times. If you have evidence of it. Let's discuss it. I get it, it is complicated. Very few people understand it and countless others simply are not capeable of it. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4573638 Please inform me which nations have teams like SCS, TAO, SSO or SOD relevant to DEA. What programs relevant to Xkeyscore, Bullrun, Genie, Dewsweep or Dropmire are other nations actively running? Once you stop repeating stuff you heard someone else say and are ready to have an adult discussion about this as a whole, I am here. Please. I'm not repeating anyone else's "drivel". This is my own opinion of the situation in terms I'm comfortable with. And I could give a wet fuck about which "alphabet agencies" and codenames are bandied about. They're irrelevant to me. I said what I said and own my opinion. And in regards to the 'adult discussion' you wish to have, my only response to that, in the words of my people: Bite Me. Which is my point. To have any understanding of what is going on. You need to want to understand what is going on - then you must comprehend it. Now there is a deep thought. I am actually laughing out loud. I am imagining all these funny things I should say now. I will just leave it though. Anyhow thanks for your input, brother. It wasn't beneficial nor did it add value. But it was a good laugh.

NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/28/2013 5:39:40 PM)
LOL, you misunderstood MY post, E. I don't deride the Spanish. I am in fact an Iberophile. I'm hardly uninformed, I am merely unwilling to give up my sense of humour in the face of what you posted. And any complaints you have are echoed MOST loudly by more than one star-level Parliamentarian of my own country. But since you come out of the gate with rapier-slashing, with wicked taverna language dripping like fermented fig-juice from your lips, I'm free to rejoinder in the same manner. and state in an equally direct/dismissive manner, as you used yourself towards me, that who the fuck cares on THIS site? The fact that you are attempting to argue this here, on CM, proves that nothing you say will make a difference to one percent of one percent of one percent of any form of world change, or world-reaction to the spying you are vilifying. It's like someone in a karaoke-bar yelling about the regulations of Diva Selection at the Opera. nobody with ANY influence over this issue, or with the ability to sway the minds of people who could stop this spying, can have the freedom or free time to post here, as you have. Or anyone who replies to you. It's like a graffiti-goon in a subway bitching about what Velasquez portraits are chosen for shows at the Met or the Guggenheim.

Esinn -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/29/2013 11:43:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed LOL, you misunderstood MY post, E. I don't deride the Spanish. I am in fact an Iberophile. I'm hardly uninformed, I am merely unwilling to give up my sense of humour in the face of what you posted. And any complaints you have are echoed MOST loudly by more than one star-level Parliamentarian of my own country. But since you come out of the gate with rapier-slashing, with wicked taverna language dripping like fermented fig-juice from your lips, I'm free to rejoinder in the same manner. and state in an equally direct/dismissive manner, as you used yourself towards me, that who the fuck cares on THIS site? The fact that you are attempting to argue this here, on CM, proves that nothing you say will make a difference to one percent of one percent of one percent of any form of world change, or world-reaction to the spying you are vilifying. It's like someone in a karaoke-bar yelling about the regulations of Diva Selection at the Opera. nobody with ANY influence over this issue, or with the ability to sway the minds of people who could stop this spying, can have the freedom or free time to post here, as you have. Or anyone who replies to you. It's like a graffiti-goon in a subway bitching about what Velasquez portraits are chosen for shows at the Met or the Guggenheim. I agree. Which is why we must be informed about these issues so we can isolate and identify those who are relevant. Then, give them as much of our money as possible. Never in the history of the world have discussions of this nature had such volume, been so immune to typical signal interference (distraction) or standard strategies of influence / manipulation one sees when discussing such topics (Theft, Leaks, Scandals or Whistleblowers). Nor have they played out on a global scale, in a theater which is not effectively being managed by the USG as they have been in previous discussions. As I noted this is due to the structured release of the information. Now, I work with human capital / consultation, there have to be others like me here, Right? My primary focus being security contracting on a contingency basis (temporary). I do have an opportunity to speak with others and at times play a relevant role in full cycle employment. While I have no ability to have a direct impact all we are capable of doing is what we can. With that said the people I work with pay me. They command my respect. I expect nothing from someone I am chatting with on CM. I see little benefit or value to respond in a cordial manner based upon your initial comment (reply). If I hurt your emotions man up. Life ain't gum drops or lollipops. It you don't like my tongue, you haven't seen it. Though there is a block/hide button here. If you feel the need I invite you to use it.

NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/29/2013 11:50:27 PM)
and you end your post with a line that basically silences the conversation, and/or manipulate it. Which seems to be EXACTLY the kind of bahaviour you are complaining about here, on this thread, your creation. I can comment POINT BY POINT on your thread above, but I would rather ask myself, "What reply would Don Quixote give to Esinn, on a thread about Spain?" and that question is simple: If a super capable Basque WOMAN read this thread, read what you've posted, what would a magnificent Basque WOMAN say? From HER perspective?

Esinn -> RE: Spying on Spain (10/30/2013 12:14:45 AM)
At what point in time has this conversation ever had any value for either of us? I pointed out some valid facts. Your did not like the tone in which I replied and took issue with that. I explained your options and my tone. Along with some other interesting data.

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