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RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/3/2013 12:40:48 PM   
AliceInUndieLand


Posts: 30
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I would imagine there are a lot of undiagnosed illnesses among prodommes. And the exact same amount of undiagnosed illnesses among clients of the same. And among pro subs and life style subs. And lifestyle dominants. And vanillas.

Everything from mood disorders to psoriasis actually will be undiagnosed because unless it totally prevents functioning, people do not enjoy going to doctors for things they can manage.

I sincerely doubt however that you can successfully diagnose mood swings which may occur months apart when you see someone only two or three times a year for an hour each time.

The fact that you are not treating them professionally, you are not observing them for weeks on end in a clinical setting, the fact that you do not have access to their friends, families and colleagues to give questionnaires to tells me you've fallen into a common medical trap. Believing that you are somehow above needing to do tests in order to give a proper diagnosis. You do know the AMA frowns heavily on treating people the way you're doing it?

My oldest cycles every five minutes and it still took six weeks in a psych hospital to come out with an accurate diagnosis. Your belief that you can do this inside an hour when what you're mainly concerned with is the hardness of your dick leads me to diagnose you with delusions of grandeur, hubris in other words.

And I'm also wondering if your wife knows about all these 'professional appointments'.


Goodness me. ! - I'm not diagnosing anyone ! - and never claimed to...
As for my wife.. - she knows her place ... compliant - and with her legs open... when I want it, how I want it ..

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/3/2013 12:51:11 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		There are some valid stereotypes on both sides of the kneel and outside the lifestyle.

Doms are arrogant assholes ... often quite short with a napoleon complex.
Subs have daddy issues ... often overweight with self image problems.
Dommes are angry divorcees and ProDommes are quite mad.

Yup, it's all true.

Next thing you know your are gonna' say titty dancers, escorts, hookers and porn stars all have daddy issues and there really is only one true way.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/3/2013 2:15:22 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		A bit of input that I'm sure is pointless since the OP has already made up there mind and posted from that point:

I'm a lifestyle and at times pro-dom. I have mental health issue that I take medication for. I was a lifestyle and pro-dom before I developed the mental health issues and I developed them in a way totally unrelated to the lifestyle.

As another said: A lot of people have diagnosed and non-diagnosed mental health issues to some degree and type. Female dominants, pro or not, are humans and there are going to be cases where they overlap with this health population. One can't assume that the one has a cause and effect status on the other or that they are interrelated. Especially purely based on personal anecdotal experience.

If that were the case you'd tie in my mental health issues with my pro-dom status, when in reality they aren't related at all.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/3/2013 4:05:23 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceInUndieLand

I seen to have noticed that a lot of Pro-Dommes I've met have got some kind of mental health problem,, -(and I define Pro-Domme has someone who derives a substantial part of their income from providing commercial sessions.. ) -
Ranging from a history of "depressive episodes" - and currently on long term medication ... to Bi-Polar disorder...
Has anyone else noticed the same thing ... i.e - are the majority of Pro-Dommes "mad" - ?
I've also met one or two who are quite deluded - and that's putting it kindly :-)


I actually don't know of a single person I've ever met in my entire life (except, of course, myself), male or female, who doesn't exhibit some questionable behaviour.

As to Domme's, I've met many, fell in love with one (didn't work...shit happens) and every one of them was crazy....as is my Mother, all but 1 of my employees, every single one of my customers, most politicians (haven't met them all...can't say for sure) and at least 5 dog catchers.

So....your point was ?


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/3/2013 6:53:52 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		Dude, we're ALL nuts. We get our rocks off tying up, beating and fucking our SOs in strange and dangerous ways when we can get away with it. My last in-scene relationship (and the mother of my daughter) was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and actually spent a year in a mental hospital. I'm a borderline psychopath (watch what you say folks). What we do is not sane, in the conventional sense of the word. Lots of sane people do insane things, i.e. skydivers. Issuing a blanket statement like that isn't going to get you positive attention.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/3/2013 8:30:52 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian
What passes for "domina" in me-too land is very much at odds with what I'd consider to be what even remotely constitutes such. Strippers, teenage/twenty-something hustlers, and opportunistic whores with whips doing "the domme thing" seldom make the grade in my eyes.

This comment seems to point to the crux of the matter. The OP defines prodomme as someone who makes most of her money from that kind of activity, which means the population he's looking at is almost certainly service tops who can't be too choosy about their clients. There's a much higher-than-average rate of mental illness among sex workers. Do people do sex work because they are depressed/bipolar. or do they get depressed because of the conditions of the work? Probably a lot of both.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/3/2013 8:46:50 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceInUndieLand


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I would imagine there are a lot of undiagnosed illnesses among prodommes. And the exact same amount of undiagnosed illnesses among clients of the same. And among pro subs and life style subs. And lifestyle dominants. And vanillas.

Everything from mood disorders to psoriasis actually will be undiagnosed because unless it totally prevents functioning, people do not enjoy going to doctors for things they can manage.

I sincerely doubt however that you can successfully diagnose mood swings which may occur months apart when you see someone only two or three times a year for an hour each time.

The fact that you are not treating them professionally, you are not observing them for weeks on end in a clinical setting, the fact that you do not have access to their friends, families and colleagues to give questionnaires to tells me you've fallen into a common medical trap. Believing that you are somehow above needing to do tests in order to give a proper diagnosis. You do know the AMA frowns heavily on treating people the way you're doing it?

My oldest cycles every five minutes and it still took six weeks in a psych hospital to come out with an accurate diagnosis. Your belief that you can do this inside an hour when what you're mainly concerned with is the hardness of your dick leads me to diagnose you with delusions of grandeur, hubris in other words.

And I'm also wondering if your wife knows about all these 'professional appointments'.


Goodness me. ! - I'm not diagnosing anyone ! - and never claimed to...
As for my wife.. - she knows her place ... compliant - and with her legs open... when I want it, how I want it ..


You claim to be submissive and yet you are kinda trashing Dommes here and then say that?

That sounds suspiciously... well, I don't know... dominant?

So my guess is you just don't really get dominant women and like stirring the pot.

I am submissive and one of the 1 in four.

OP, you might want to look a bit closer around you... One in four of the taxi drivers, doctors, accountants and pastry chefs will experience some form of mental illness... and neighbors, bartenders, garbage collectors... etc.


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RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/3/2013 9:14:39 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceInUndieLand
Ranging from a history of "depressive episodes" - and currently on long term medication ... to Bi-Polar disorder...
Has anyone else noticed the same thing ... i.e - are the majority of Pro-Dommes "mad" - ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceInUndieLand
That's what I think - I'm asking what YOU think ... :-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceInUndieLand
I'm simply asking if anyone else has noticed the same thing ..

Okay, I will tell you what I think and what I've noticed.

First of all, I think it's very F'ing rude and judgmental of you to call people with mental illness "mad." What the hell is "mad" anyway? It's another basket term like "crazy" and, as such is so vague it's meaningless.

Second, it's estimated that one in four people has some kind of mental illness. If you consider that one in four includes people in all walks of life, I'm sure there are a number of Pro-Dommes who are mentally ill, just like there are a number of lifestyle Dommes, subs, switches, lawyers, fast-food workers, ditch diggers, etc(you get the picture), who are.

Also, I'm not a Pro-Domme, but I am bipolar and have anxiety disorder, both of which are well-controlled with my meds. BUT, I had those issues well before I ever experienced kink in any capacity.

Considering that one in four people has some sort of diagnosable mental illness, just imagine all the people you've just insulted with your judgmental comments.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceInUndieLand
As for my wife.. - she knows her place ... compliant - and with her legs open... when I want it, how I want it ..

As for you: You call yourself a 51 year old male submissive but the above-quoted statement sounds pretty dominant to me. Not only that but it also sounds pretty sexist and misogynistic. I think someone sounds butthurt. Is he not "getting it" as much as he'd like?

NBMG

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/4/2013 10:39:59 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		As someone who says they are qualified in the mental health area you should know that bi polar issues are more common in those that work in areas where they are required to be more creative than average folk are asked to be. Writers, artists, etc. tend to have to shift back and forth between roles more often than others and it can lead to them having personal issues of their own. As for depression, Cases of depression, though very common in a large number of people now, are most common to happen to those who work within the medical industry itself. Doctors, nurses, and those that work with the elderly often have issues with depression do to the rate of illness and death they see. It isn't to hard to figure out why they might be depressed. Social workers, food service, and those that deal with the mentally ill themselves often find that after time they develop problems dealing with people either do to how they have been treated in the past or how many 'depressing' things they have seen.
As for your question as to if most pros have issues.......well to be honest that is a rather random question. There is a very high likely hood that there are some people that get into bdsm in a hope of finding someone more like themselves or as part of a wish to be told they are 'normal' In the same way you ask this question about dommes I could ask the question about submissive men (as I have met many with mental health issues of their own) A very large part however would depend on what is really considered a mental health issue and what is not.
*side note* I would suggest against doing sessions with a pro that openly tells you she is bi polar (personal opinion here) or anyone else that admits to their moods fluctuating at a rapid rate. Remember in many cases you are putting your safety in someone else's hands when it comes to bdsm and you really don't want them changing their mind about if they hate you or not midstream.

< Message edited by MissImmortalPain -- 11/4/2013 10:47:25 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/4/2013 12:43:46 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl


As for you: You call yourself a 51 year old male submissive but the above-quoted statement sounds pretty dominant to me. Not only that but it also sounds pretty sexist and misogynistic. I think someone sounds butthurt. Is he not "getting it" as much as he'd like?

NBMG


And you'll notice he didn't say that his wife knows he's spending this much household income on his dick.

While she's probably worried about getting through the winter on bald tires.


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RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/4/2013 3:12:05 PM   
bloomswell


Posts: 52
Status: offline 		As an ex mental health worker I'd like to mention that many of the professional shrinks I've dealt with were far 'crazier' than any professional dominants I knew.
Pro-Dommes are no more 'crazy' than any other group and in my opinion tend to be more self aware than many people in other professions.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/4/2013 5:04:56 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

1.As it happens I am medically qualified - with professional qualifications in the mental health field .. - though admittedly it's not my main area of practice at the moment ... - so I'm able to make a judgement regarding someone's mental state..


Considering the below quote from your OP, I'm very dubious about the statement above'

quote:

are the majority of Pro-Dommes "mad" - ?


I haven't heard of a mental health professional in years who would call a person with depression or bipolar disorder, "mad", or "crazy" or "insane.

There was a similar discussion on FetLife not long ago. Here's what I had to say about it:



There's a big difference between having an emotional/mental disorder and being bat-shit crazy. A very large minority of the population, both within and without the BDSM community have such disorders, yet are quite able to take care of themselves, tell right from wrong and give informed consent. I would suggest that if somebody's mental/emotional disorders aren't severe enough to get him acquitted of a felony due to mental incapacitation, he is probably sane enough to do BDSM.

I have both topped and bottomed with people with such disorders, some who had them under medical control and some who didn't. In all cases, they were sane enough to set limits for themselves and understand and respect them for others. In call cases, they were able to tell when they'd have enough or stop when I let them know that I had. As far as I'm concerned, anybody who is sane enough to do those things is sane enough to do BDSM.

I'm not fond of the whole SSC thing because of this very thing. "Safe?" Many of the things we like to do can be quite dangerous. "Sane?" Who gets to define what's sane and what isn't? "Consent" is the only one of the three about which almost everybody can agree on the working definition of.


And here's a link to the thread: https://fetlife.com/groups/48206/group_posts/4558182

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RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/4/2013 5:17:24 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		FR,

I've seen more mental illness among the earthy-crunchy than BDSMers.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/4/2013 6:49:27 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceInUndieLand

1.As it happens I am medically qualified - with professional qualifications in the mental health field .. - though admittedly it's not my main area of practice at the moment ... - so I'm able to make a judgement regarding someone's mental state..

2. I can think of a couple of high profile dommes - who have written public memoirs - in which they frankly disclose a mental health issue...

3. I session with Pro-Dommes .. I guess over the years the number I've met has been in double figures ... - "some" of those have disclosed various "health issues" to me ...

4. I've met "a number" of life-style dominant women ... - I think I can recognise the difference between a "fetish role play" - and someone who quite frankly has some borderline personality disorder .. ( not to mention "problem drinking" - but that's another issue .. )

5. My guess is, there is probably a large incidence of undiagnosed Bi-Polar in the "Pro-Domme" population ..

That's what I think - I'm asking what YOU think ... :-)


1) I am wondering why a mental health care professional would feel the need to come to a BDSM forum to bring up this issue. (I don't see many gynecologists coming here to talk about problems with pro-Dommes' vaginas.)

2) Some people are diagnosed as bi-polar when they are merely depressed (or have health issues that make someone so tired that it SEEMS like it stems from depression)...and drink way too much coffee.

3) A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. People learning about medical or psychological stuff often see the diseases everywhere, in everyone, whether present or not. Mountains from molehills. Pfft.

4) Some of us find that BDSM helps to process past traumas better than years of going to shrinks have been able to do. If I were at home, I'd get you a link. As long as both people consent to what we do, I don't care if they have issues and are involved in BDSM.

I've had friends in the past who were hookers and some who were exotic dancers. With both groups, the johns looked down on the women and the women looked down on the johns. It's no surprise to me that you would look down on pro-Dommes you've known. If it's a comfort to you to think that you're too well educated/professional/blahblahblah to be the one who's messed up to need these demented women to top you and do all kinds of kinky, vile, nasty things to you...eh, I'm okay with your pointing the finger at the other person.

Psst...most of the shrinks I've gone to over the past thirty years...have ended up telling me all of their problems and basically...put themselves on MY couch. You'd be surprised over how many shrinks have confessed to being bipolar or whatever.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/5/2013 3:47:54 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
The OP defines prodomme as someone who makes most of her money from that kind of activity, which means the population he's looking at is almost certainly service tops who can't be too choosy about their clients.


Precisely. We have arrived upon a time where "sex worker"=domina whenever one quite casually declares herself as such. Nine times out of ten I find the loose association just that: a tremendously loose association, at best, compared to the real McCoy.

< Message edited by MarcEsadrian -- 11/5/2013 3:48:14 PM >

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RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/5/2013 8:02:31 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceInUndieLand
3. I session with Pro-Dommes .. I guess over the years the number I've met has been in double figures ... - "some" of those have disclosed various "health issues" to me ...

4. I've met "a number" of life-style dominant women ... - I think I can recognise the difference between a "fetish role play" - and someone who quite frankly has some borderline personality disorder .. ( not to mention "problem drinking" - but that's another issue .. )



Statistically speaking the number of mental health issues in the pro-Dommes you meet should be equivalent to that of the general population or be slightly lower than the general population, as all research I'm aware of correlating BDSM to metal health indicated that BDSMers overall have slightly better mental health than average.

That being said, it's perfectly possible that there is an unusually high prevalence of mental health issues and BPD within the pro-Domme group you meet. However, it should be immediately sure to anybody with medical qualifications that this is not a statistically significant sample, because this group does not consist of a random cross-section of pro-Dommes. Instead, it consists of a group of pro-Dommes that was selected by you, based on whatever selection criteria attracted you to them.

Therefore, IF there is an unusually high occurrence of BPD among the pro-Dommes, then that is because you are unusually attracted to women with BPD, and self select toward women with this disorder. As a medically qualified professional I'm sure you're aware of the fact that people who are drawn to people with BPD, and who partner up with them, or manage to maintain long term relationships with them, are so drawn to them and manage to put up with them because they have their own very distinctive pathology enabling them to be attracted to, and able to put up with BPDers.

You should talk to a qualified professional about why you're so irrationally drawn to BPders, and fix some of your low self-esteem/codependency issues.
My guess is that it would solve the statistical bias in your sample group.

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I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
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RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/5/2013 10:02:50 PM   
MikeSubwoofer


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/1/2013
Status: offline 		Well was planning to post an intro first, but this piqued my interest... like others have said I doubt the percentage of Pro Dommes that meet the requirements for a psych diagnoses is any higher than that of others.

And just to let other folks know there are actually many C/S/X (Consumer/Survivor/eX-patient) folks with the lived experience of a psych diagnoses that do identify as mad and prefer it over terms like mental illness. Check out Mad Pride or Mad Student Societies for example. OP definitely shouldn't have used this term without including others beside it, but what is offensive to some is preferred by others and vice versa. In my experience the least loaded terms (ones that I have yet to have some one take offense to) were ones like neurodiverse and neurodivergent.

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RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/6/2013 1:34:59 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia


1) I am wondering why a mental health care professional would feel the need to come to a BDSM forum to bring up this issue. (I don't see many gynecologists coming here to talk about problems with pro-Dommes' vaginas.)



Bwahhahahahahahahaha!!!!

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RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/6/2013 4:16:21 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceInUndieLand

I seen to have noticed that a lot of Pro-Dommes I've met have got some kind of mental health problem,...
Has anyone else noticed the same thing ... i.e - are the majority of Pro-Dommes "mad" - ?
I've also met one or two who are quite deluded - and that's putting it kindly :-)


Based on the sample size that you're using, in the scientific community we refer to this as "coincidence". Any question?


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RE: Dominant women and mental illness... - 11/7/2013 5:16:40 AM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl


As for you: You call yourself a 51 year old male submissive but the above-quoted statement sounds pretty dominant to me. Not only that but it also sounds pretty sexist and misogynistic. I think someone sounds butthurt. Is he not "getting it" as much as he'd like?

NBMG


And you'll notice he didn't say that his wife knows he's spending this much household income on his dick.

While she's probably worried about getting through the winter on bald tires.


Yes, I noticed that ^^^^ too.

NBMG

_____________________________

I'm now SweetlySadistic1 on CollarSpace. NBMG is an old profile, please see my new one.


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Profile   Post #: 40
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