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I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 1:49:02 PM

DomKen

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http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3209305.shtml?cat=500#.UnlmXGznaB-
The police in New Mexico had a man repeatedly sodomized because he was "clenching" his ass in a suspicious manner during a traffic stop.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 1:59:46 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3209305.shtml?cat=500#.UnlmXGznaB-
The police in New Mexico had a man repeatedly sodomized because he was "clenching" his ass in a suspicious manner during a traffic stop.

Damn.

This article doesn't make it look good for the officers or the medical professionals. Can't wait for the story to play out and all guilty are brought to justice.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 2:12:59 PM

RottenJohnny

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FR

LOL! There's gotta be a better way for cops to get their kink on.

< Message edited by RottenJohnny -- 11/5/2013 2:13:02 PM >

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 2:13:56 PM

mnottertail

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Nope, doughnut drought. So that's out.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 2:17:07 PM

DaNewAgeViking

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Um...so how does this relate to the 4th Amendment, unless they thought he had an AK 47 shoved up his rectum?

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 2:21:16 PM

RottenJohnny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope, doughnut drought. So that's out.

And people wonder what that doughnut hole is for.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 2:22:30 PM

mnottertail

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not for aiming, thats why it takes swat and an entire department to shoot one ancient homeless lady after they tazer her.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 2:27:58 PM

ExtonSadist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Um...so how does this relate to the 4th Amendment, unless they thought he had an AK 47 shoved up his rectum?

The 4th deals with Protection from Unreasonable Search and Seizure.
The 2nd relates to gun ownership.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 2:31:02 PM

RottenJohnny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

not for aiming, thats why it takes swat and an entire department to shoot one ancient homeless lady after they tazer her.

Not familiar with your reference but it sounds like a South Park episode.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 2:31:54 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking
Um...so how does this relate to the 4th Amendment, unless they thought he had an AK 47 shoved up his rectum?

4th Amendment

quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

While the article does state that the LEO's got a search warrant for the cavity search, the premise for that warrant may not have been all that legitimate.

The warrant was executed outside the jurisdiction and past the expiration of the warrant.

Unless the story wasn't as the article wrote up, this isn't likely to play out well for the LEO's, and might be bad for the medical providers, too.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 5:48:37 PM

kalikshama

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I think it's worth mentioning that, according to the article, this went far beyond a digital anal cavity search - against the man's will, he was also subjected to three enemas and a colonoscopy.

In addition, even if the search warrant was executed in the correct New Mexico county, the warrant expired at 10 p.m. Medical records show the prepping for the colonoscopy started at 1 a.m. the following day, three hours after the warrant expired.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 5:51:07 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I think it's worth mentioning that, according to the article, this went far beyond a digital anal cavity search - against the man's will, he was also subjected to three enemas and a colonoscopy.

Without the warrant, there is no telling what was permissible and what was not. "Against a man's will" isn't as important a fact when there is a warrant, but there is still a question of probable cause leading to that warrant.

IMO, the lengths this guy was searched should be considered "excessive force."

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 5:59:00 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

The warrant was executed outside the jurisdiction and past the expiration of the warrant.

Yes, according to the video, the warrant was only good in one country and executed in another.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 6:04:21 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

Without the warrant, there is no telling what was permissible and what was not. "Against a man's will" isn't as important a fact when there is a warrant, but there is still a question of probable cause leading to that warrant.

IMO, the lengths this guy was searched should be considered "excessive force."

Agreed.

As to the warrant, see starting at point 49 of the complaint, which is in the link. To be "reasonable," it is supposed to specify what medical procedures are to be performed.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 7:24:13 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Without the warrant, there is no telling what was permissible and what was not. "Against a man's will" isn't as important a fact when there is a warrant, but there is still a question of probable cause leading to that warrant.
IMO, the lengths this guy was searched should be considered "excessive force."

Agreed.
As to the warrant, see starting at point 49 of the complaint, which is in the link. To be "reasonable," it is supposed to specify what medical procedures are to be performed.

Well, I think "reasonable" shouldn't just require the procedure be specified. lol If the warrant stated full body cavity search "by any means necessary," it would include enemas and colonoscopes, but, imo, those are still not reasonable in this situation.

The guy was pulled over for rolling through a stop sign. The first thing I thought was, "why the fuck did they have him out of the car for rolling through a stop sign?" The story strikes me as the cops having it in for that guy, and made shit up as they went. But, I'm still open to the possibility this story is not really the way it was told in the linked article.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/5/2013 9:19:51 PM

EdBowie

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The Supreme Court drew a clear line that a traffic stop alone is not sufficient probable cause to go on a fishing expedition, something else needs to be evident... It will be interesting to see what develops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Without the warrant, there is no telling what was permissible and what was not. "Against a man's will" isn't as important a fact when there is a warrant, but there is still a question of probable cause leading to that warrant.
IMO, the lengths this guy was searched should be considered "excessive force."

Agreed.
As to the warrant, see starting at point 49 of the complaint, which is in the link. To be "reasonable," it is supposed to specify what medical procedures are to be performed.

Well, I think "reasonable" shouldn't just require the procedure be specified. lol If the warrant stated full body cavity search "by any means necessary," it would include enemas and colonoscopes, but, imo, those are still not reasonable in this situation.

The guy was pulled over for rolling through a stop sign. The first thing I thought was, "why the fuck did they have him out of the car for rolling through a stop sign?" The story strikes me as the cops having it in for that guy, and made shit up as they went. But, I'm still open to the possibility this story is not really the way it was told in the linked article.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/6/2013 12:46:58 AM

eulero83

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The story strikes me as the cops having it in for that guy, and made shit up as they went. But, I'm still open to the possibility this story is not really the way it was told in the linked article.

I agree, my bet is that one of the cops had personal issues with the driver that have nothing to do with drug, the law suit filed, that is also reported in the end of the article, is very detailed, googling the case number there are declaration of defendants that deny all the allegations, but I don't see the point in filing a federal suit based on nothing.

edit: this document gives also more informations, just a question: does "undisputed" in legal terms mean it's not been challenged or denied by defendants or that had been proved or is it just an adjective used to give more emphasis?

< Message edited by eulero83 -- 11/6/2013 1:12:09 AM >

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/6/2013 2:46:37 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The story strikes me as the cops having it in for that guy, and made shit up as they went. But, I'm still open to the possibility this story is not really the way it was told in the linked article.

I agree, my bet is that one of the cops had personal issues with the driver that have nothing to do with drug, the law suit filed, that is also reported in the end of the article, is very detailed, googling the case number there are declaration of defendants that deny all the allegations, but I don't see the point in filing a federal suit based on nothing.

edit: this document gives also more informations, just a question: does "undisputed" in legal terms mean it's not been challenged or denied by defendants or that had been proved or is it just an adjective used to give more emphasis?

Undisputed may mean that. It appears that the lawyer who wrote that meant it that way.

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/6/2013 4:25:36 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The story strikes me as the cops having it in for that guy, and made shit up as they went. But, I'm still open to the possibility this story is not really the way it was told in the linked article.

I agree, my bet is that one of the cops had personal issues with the driver that have nothing to do with drug, the law suit filed, that is also reported in the end of the article, is very detailed, googling the case number there are declaration of defendants that deny all the allegations, but I don't see the point in filing a federal suit based on nothing.
edit: this document gives also more informations, just a question: does "undisputed" in legal terms mean it's not been challenged or denied by defendants or that had been proved or is it just an adjective used to give more emphasis?

Undisputed likely means it isn't being challenged.

I couldn't even get through the second stop in those links. It sounds like the cops acted improperly in the first stop, and the second stop was more of a "punishment" or simply harassment.

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A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
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Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: I miss the 4th Amendment - 11/6/2013 6:53:32 AM

EdBowie

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If the other side has gone on record as saying they are not going to challenge something, the term is often 'stipulated to'. 'Undisputed' is more rhetorical.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The story strikes me as the cops having it in for that guy, and made shit up as they went. But, I'm still open to the possibility this story is not really the way it was told in the linked article.

I agree, my bet is that one of the cops had personal issues with the driver that have nothing to do with drug, the law suit filed, that is also reported in the end of the article, is very detailed, googling the case number there are declaration of defendants that deny all the allegations, but I don't see the point in filing a federal suit based on nothing.
edit: this document gives also more informations, just a question: does "undisputed" in legal terms mean it's not been challenged or denied by defendants or that had been proved or is it just an adjective used to give more emphasis?

Undisputed likely means it isn't being challenged.

I couldn't even get through the second stop in those links. It sounds like the cops acted improperly in the first stop, and the second stop was more of a "punishment" or simply harassment.