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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Polonium poisoning is *very* difficult to arrange.

The material itself is difficult to handle. As for what the Russians and chineses gain: America remains tied up in the middle east.
America is the enemy of the muslims. Its.. simply huge.

The other suspect are muslims. Many would not have wanted Arafat making peace. The most likely method of delivery was through food. And the telltale signs of polonium poisoning were present in the last months of his life.

I wondered when you would blame the Muslims as per usual.......

Please try to avoid knee jerk reactionism

I didn't *blame* the muslims. I don't know who did it. However, if you read the book on who killed arafat, its one of the theories advanced.

Or just read the wiki. For the record, it woudl have an additional benefit that it would appear like cirrhosis of the liver.

No knee jerk reactionism here, just my jaundiced view of your posting style. Whats your view of any Mossad involvement, I seem to recall thay have a little previous form in this area ?

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
It's an interesting puzzle and I doubt we've heard the last of it. If he was assassinated then I'm not sure how Israel gains from it long term...and the Israelis tend to think long term. Short term, they get rid of a constant pain in their ass...but Arafat was so old that all they had to do is wait anyway. I can't imagine they'd really want to risk perpetual conflict with Palestine. And as JLF pointed out earlier, this isn't typically their style.
Russia may gain by eliminating the chance that Arafat makes peace, which gives them further opportunity to build their influence in the region...like with Syria...because everyone would almost certainly blame Israel and/or the U.S.

Oh puh-leeeaaassseeee.
Do you know anything about the history between Sharon and Arafat? You do know that Arafat blamed Sharon for (IIRC) 15 attempts on his life, don't you? You do remember that Sharon had Arafat cornered in Ramallah surrounded by Israeli tanks for the last few years of his life don't you? You do know that for decades the Israelis have routinely assassinated leaders of the Palestinian resistance, don't you?
Against that history, something more than idle conjecture is needed before any other candidate even enters the frame .... something like evidence.
The Israelis have history, opportunity, technology and motive against them. None of the other actors you mention had.

Technology? Do the Russians have any history of polonium use?

Maintaining unrest in the ME could work in Russia's favor (as has been pointed out in the thread).

Russians have the KGB, so I'm sure they could have found the opportunity.

The OP doesn't state the Israeli's definitely didn't do it, but that it may not have been them.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny



It's an interesting puzzle and I doubt we've heard the last of it. If he was assassinated then I'm not sure how Israel gains from it long term...and the Israelis tend to think long term. Short term, they get rid of a constant pain in their ass...but Arafat was so old that all they had to do is wait anyway. I can't imagine they'd really want to risk perpetual conflict with Palestine. And as JLF pointed out earlier, this isn't typically their style.

Russia may gain by eliminating the chance that Arafat makes peace, which gives them further opportunity to build their influence in the region...like with Syria...because everyone would almost certainly blame Israel and/or the U.S.

Oh puh-leeeaaassseeee.

Do you know anything about the history between Sharon and Arafat? You do know that Arafat blamed Sharon for (IIRC) 15 attempts on his life, don't you? You do remember that Sharon had Arafat cornered in Ramallah surrounded by Israeli tanks for the last few years of his life don't you? You do know that for decades the Israelis have routinely assassinated leaders of the Palestinian resistance, don't you?

Against that history, something more than idle conjecture is needed before any other candidate even enters the frame .... something like evidence.

The Israelis have history, opportunity, technology and motive against them. None of the other actors you mention had.

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ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

When Arafat died, most Palestinians blamed the Israelis for killing him. Now we apparently have a Swiss report that says he may have been poisoned with polonium, just like Alexander Litvinenko was. I have to wonder if it was really the Russians that killed Arafat. The question is, "Why?"

There are several people around here who think the U.S. has no business muddying itself in Middle East politics. Admittedly, I'm one of them. But if there is a Russian link between the two deaths then can we be so sure the Russians aren't hoping for continued discontent in the ME? And if so, are we sure we can afford not to be involved in the ME?

http://home.core.com/home/article.php?category=breaking&article=5ecc40cb24d74fb3b6aede7b901bc40b

Thoughts? Opinions?

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
As I posted earlier, the preferred method of the Mossad is a small caliber bullet to the back of the skull, occasionally they may use explosives..

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And the Israelis have a nasty habit of making sure they get the credit by leaking 'unofficial' information thru various sources.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Now the Russians are saying the results are inconclusive about the cause of Arafat's death.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Now the Russians are saying the results are inconclusive about the cause of Arafat's death.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

No scientists here and certainly not a math wiz...but from what I read extremely small amounts would be used to kill... such as the coating on a needle. So a very small amount would only need to be ingested.

That said the half life I read was 138 days... that would be about 23 half lives of reduction. It seems to me it should be undetectable by now. At least it should be hard to separate from background radiation with a certainty.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

No scientists here and certainly not a math wiz...but from what I read extremely small amounts would be used to kill... such as the coating on a needle. So a very small amount would only need to be ingested.

That said the half life I read was 138 days... that would be about 23 half lives of reduction. It seems to me it should be undetectable by now. At least it should be hard to separate from background radiation with a certainty.

The decay products would be detectable and since Po-210 decays in a specific way the presence of those isotopes in certain ratios would be extremely strong evidence of polonium exposure. However if we're really dealing with a milligram or less dose it would be very hard to detect those decay products after this long.

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Of course I remember all of those things, tweak. And pointing fingers at Israel is logical and easy. But like I said, there's no long term benefit for the Israelis to kill Arafat when he could have died at almost any moment anyway. Now, you could make the case that the Israelis did it anyway just because they hated Arafat and used a method like this to deflect suspicion away from them since, as JLF said, they tend to want people to know when they've assassinated someone. After all, they never hesitated to let the world know they were hunting former Nazis after WWII to either kill them or bring them home for prosecution.

And as DS pointed out, I'm not claiming anyone in particular is or is not guilty. I'm just pondering the international intrigue of the whole thing and asking what others think about it. It's a great story...if however, creepy.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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Of course I remember all of those things, tweak. And pointing fingers at Israel is logical and easy. But like I said, there's no long term benefit for the Israelis to kill Arafat when he could have died at almost any moment anyway. Now, you could make the case that the Israelis did it anyway just because they hated Arafat and used a method like this to deflect suspicion away from them since, as JLF said, they tend to want people to know when they've assassinated someone. After all, they never hesitated to let the world know they were hunting former Nazis after WWII to either kill them or bring them home for prosecution.

And as DS pointed out, I'm not claiming anyone in particular is or is not guilty. I'm just pondering the international intrigue of the whole thing and asking what others think about it. It's a great story...if however, creepy.

Yes. It's far more fun to speculate. Who can resist a good conspiracy theory? Sorry to be the party pooper but ......

I am at a loss to understand why you assume that "there's no long term benefit for the Israelis to kill Arafat". The reason you offer is self-evidently inadequate, and anyway, it applies to all potential suspects equally. Sharon (aka The Butcher of Sabra and Shatila, and probably the single individual in the entire conflict with the most blood on his hands) wanted Arafat dead and had tried many times to assassinate him. Arafat was a unifying figure for Palestinians and his absence would enable his replacement by Abbas, who the Israelis felt would be (and has turned out to be) a far weaker person and leader. In Arafat's wake the Palestinian splits would be exacerbated.

While everyone with a brain knows the Israelis did it, the Israelis don't want to publicly or even quietly acknowledge it as it would send the US, and the entire rest of the world ballistic. It's just not done for State leaders to go around killing each other and the US saw Arafat as an essential partner in the peace process.

The main benefit for Israel is that killing Arafat effectively meant killing the peace process. Sharon despised the 'Two State Solution'. No other Palestinian could 'deliver' the Palestinian side. Israel doesn't want to be seen as openly killing the peace process, even though that is clearly their goal, as their subsequent behaviour proves, . Arafat's death left the peace process in limbo, which is where it has been ever since (current negotiations notwithstanding) and the Israelis are free to pursue their #1 goal, the complete conquest of the West Bank, as they have done ever since.

While it might be good fun to try to find a conspiracy, there's an obvious suspect which happens to be only candidate with the requisite levels of motive, history, skills, technology and opportunity. Until there is compelling 'hard' evidence to the contrary, there's simply no reason to look beyond Sharon and Israel.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

For the last years of his life, Arafat lived besieged by Israeli tanks on all sides. Holed up in his office, nothing got in or out without Israeli approval. If he was murdered (which seems possible) there is no way it could have happened without Israeli approval.

You are clutching at straws. If you prefer not to face up to reality, that's your choice.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
While it might be good fun to try to find a conspiracy...

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I am at a loss to understand why you assume that "there's no long term benefit for the Israelis to kill Arafat". The reason you offer is self-evidently inadequate, and anyway, it applies to all potential suspects equally. Sharon (aka The Butcher of Sabra and Shatila, and probably the single individual in the entire conflict with the most blood on his hands) wanted Arafat dead and had tried many times to assassinate him. Arafat was a unifying figure for Palestinians and his absence would enable his replacement by Abbas, who the Israelis felt would be (and has turned out to be) a far weaker person and leader. In Arafat's wake the Palestinian splits would be exacerbated.

While everyone with a brain knows the Israelis did it, the Israelis don't want to publicly or even quietly acknowledge it as it would send the US, and the entire rest of the world ballistic. It's just not done for State leaders to go around killing each other and the US saw Arafat as an essential partner in the peace process.

The main benefit for Israel is that killing Arafat effectively meant killing the peace process. Sharon despised the 'Two State Solution'. No other Palestinian could 'deliver' the Palestinian side. Israel doesn't want to be seen as openly killing the peace process, even though that is clearly their goal, as their subsequent behaviour proves, . Arafat's death left the peace process in limbo, which is where it has been ever since (current negotiations notwithstanding) and the Israelis are free to pursue their #1 goal, the complete conquest of the West Bank, as they have done ever since.

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For the last years of his life, Arafat lived besieged by Israeli tanks on all sides. Holed up in his office, nothing got in or out without Israeli approval. If he was murdered (which seems possible) there is no way it could have happened without Israeli approval.

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Until there is compelling 'hard' evidence to the contrary, there's simply no reason to look beyond Sharon and Israel.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

For the last years of his life, Arafat lived besieged by Israeli tanks on all sides. Holed up in his office, nothing got in or out without Israeli approval. If he was murdered (which seems possible) there is no way it could have happened without Israeli approval.

You are clutching at straws. If you prefer not to face up to reality, that's your choice.