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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 2:31:37 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		ok so Lookie is actually using the Anglophile lable literally yes? not meaning us in the UK, but actual Americans that like using our actual English language correctly?

if that's the case I really wish more of you would. that way you may all start using the i as it should sound in lower case instead of saying it as I upper case like you do with semi. that crap bugs the hell out of me. there is no e to change the sound so it's just a lower case i why do you have to fricking mess about and change it.

Americans have a very strange ear as to what they think we sound like though anyway. whenever you hear an American actor playing an English part they still sound so very wrong to us. There are plenty of British actors over there just use them already and stop butchering how we sound.

anyway Lookie, you can just quiet down. because of some of your lot we have kids that think they are sssoooooo black American street it's unreal. America need a smack up the back of the head for that one.

needles

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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 3:16:02 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

if that's the case I really wish more of you would. that way you may all start using the i as it should sound in lower case instead of saying it as I upper case like you do with semi. that crap bugs the hell out of me. there is no e to change the sound so it's just a lower case i why do you have to fricking mess about and change it.



Since "semi" is actually of Latin dirivation, the rules of Latin would be the ones to apply. After all one wouldn't say "kest la vay" if they're trying to say "that's life" in French.






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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 3:30:51 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		C'est la vie, has the all important e at the end
semi doesnt
Demi is the same..Ive never heard anyone say demi as damay or demye

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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 5:39:28 AM   
needlesandpins


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

if that's the case I really wish more of you would. that way you may all start using the i as it should sound in lower case instead of saying it as I upper case like you do with semi. that crap bugs the hell out of me. there is no e to change the sound so it's just a lower case i why do you have to fricking mess about and change it.



Since "semi" is actually of Latin dirivation, the rules of Latin would be the ones to apply. After all one wouldn't say "kest la vay" if they're trying to say "that's life" in French.







adding in to what Lucy said;

Americans usually say Sem-eye instead of Sem-ee which in English is how it is supposed to be said. Your French example falls apart in that you are not applying it correctly anyway. it isn't C'est la v-eye, it's C'est la v-ee. as Lucy pointed out there is the all important 'e' there, but as it's next to the I it lengthens the sound to E. still no 'eye' sound in sight regardless of latin.

needles

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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 6:18:24 AM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Blame it on Mr Webster, who preferred the phonetic spellings.
American English will usually use 'se' at the end of a word when the British English use 'ce'. The British often use a double 'L', example travelled instead of traveled and 's' instead of 'z' paralyse-paralyze. We also use a lot more 'U's in British English, neighbour, humour, flavour and so on.

Spelling wise, American spelling is far easier than the British but French words with the same spelling and the same meaning will really keep you on your toes!. Take the word 'equivalent' 'équivalent', same spelling apart from the acute and same meaning but pronounce it in French and it sounds as 'ah-kiv-oh-lon' and 'direction' would sound like 'dee-reck-syion'.

I know there was a huge influence in British English from the Celts, the Romans and the Saxons but the biggest influence on the British language was from the French. In fact, we all once spoke French in England and that still shows in much of our spelling.
The English language uses about 7,000 French words. I think its something like a third of all English words come directly or indirectly from French, which means, even if you can't speak French, you already know about 15,000 words!

American English has just evolved (fairly quickly), and clearly, British English, especially things such as tabloids and books are starting to borrow from Mr Webster. The linguists hate the fact that we are adopting American English and will do everything to discourage it. The way I see it is, it will change because we can't stop evolution.


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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 6:24:18 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		But much French and English is old norse.  Nordmanni is Normandy, Lombardy is Longbeards, afterall.

And the danelaw was thick in the island.  Consider Donegal and Jorvik (York). 

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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 6:28:47 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

if that's the case I really wish more of you would. that way you may all start using the i as it should sound in lower case instead of saying it as I upper case like you do with semi. that crap bugs the hell out of me. there is no e to change the sound so it's just a lower case i why do you have to fricking mess about and change it.



Since "semi" is actually of Latin dirivation, the rules of Latin would be the ones to apply. After all one wouldn't say "kest la vay" if they're trying to say "that's life" in French.







adding in to what Lucy said;

Americans usually say Sem-eye instead of Sem-ee which in English is how it is supposed to be said. Your French example falls apart in that you are not applying it correctly anyway. it isn't C'est la v-eye, it's C'est la v-ee. as Lucy pointed out there is the all important 'e' there, but as it's next to the I it lengthens the sound to E. still no 'eye' sound in sight regardless of latin.

needles

Also the 't' and the 's' wouldn't be sounded on c'est (ceh)


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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 8:04:33 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But much French and English is old norse.  Nordmanni is Normandy, Lombardy is Longbeards, afterall.

And the danelaw was thick in the island.  Consider Donegal and Jorvik (York). 


We only have a few inflections left of 'Old West Norse'. It didn't have a great influence on Britain as it arrived only a couple of centuries before the Norman invasion.

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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 8:11:03 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

adding in to what Lucy said;

Americans usually say Sem-eye instead of Sem-ee which in English is how it is supposed to be said. Your French example falls apart in that you are not applying it correctly anyway. it isn't C'est la v-eye, it's C'est la v-ee. as Lucy pointed out there is the all important 'e' there, but as it's next to the I it lengthens the sound to E. still no 'eye' sound in sight regardless of latin.

needles


OMG! It's you (and apparently lucy whom I ignore) that is mistaken.

I was saying that "semi" is Latin and therefore that the pronunciation rules of Latin should be applied to "semi" just as "C'èst la vìe" is French so, it is pronounced: "Say La Vee" as opposed to the anglicized: "Kest la vay".

In English, the fact that there's a second vowel following the "i" means that the "i" will be pronounced with what's called the "long" sound.

You're attempting to apply the rules of English "semee" to a LATIN "semeye" word.

That aside; if the second part of the hyphenated word begins with a vowel, the long "i" sound is almost always appropriate (if one wishes to apply the rules of English to the word) ex: "semi-arid".

I could imagine where a word like "semi-iconic" might be better suited to "semee" as opposed to "semaye".





< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 11/13/2013 8:38:49 AM >

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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 8:16:50 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		http://www.viking.no/e/france/norman_on_words.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Old_Norse_origin

and without blinking I would add: waft, warp, woof, wend, north, south, east, west, knee,  tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday (lol, wash day) and if I thought and blinked..........

But that is strictly cavil, in the main.  English draws on many older languages, n'est ce pas?

Sleipnir, just plodding along.  (to schlepp, in idiom)  LOL.

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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 8:40:18 AM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.viking.no/e/france/norman_on_words.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Old_Norse_origin

and without blinking I would add: waft, warp, woof, wend, north, south, east, west, knee,  tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday (lol, wash day) and if I thought and blinked..........

But that is strictly cavil, in the main.  English draws on many older languages, n'est ce pas?

Sleipnir, just plodding along.  (to schlepp, in idiom)  LOL.

bien sûr, but as you can see, compared to the amount of French words in the English vocabulary, Norse hardly makes an impact. A lot of the northern slang though is of Norse origin :)

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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 9:28:20 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I was saying that "semi" is Latin and therefore that the pronunciation rules of Latin should be applied to "semi" just as "C'èst la vìe" is French so, it is pronounced: "Say La Vee" as opposed to the anglicized: "Kest la vay".

In English, the fact that there's a second vowel following the "i" means that the "i" will be pronounced with what's called the "long" sound.

You're attempting to apply the rules of English "semee" to a LATIN "semeye" word.

That aside; if the second part of the hyphenated word begins with a vowel, the long "i" sound is almost always appropriate (if one wishes to apply the rules of English to the word) ex: "semi-arid".

I could imagine where a word like "semi-iconic" might be better suited to "semee" as opposed to "semaye".

[/color]



I don't know a lot about Latin but 'c'est la vie' doesn't have a grave over the e. If it did then its pronunciation would change to
'ces'. You are right about the 'i'. Normally when you see a letter 'i' in French it will be pronounced 'ee' but its not a long sound as it would be in English. If 'i' is followed by a vowel and then a consonant it sounds like an English phonetic Y (yacht) and if it has a circonflexe... Oh never mind!!!

I think you said this but just wanted to clarify...
In FrenchThe 'i' followed by the 'e'... example 'vie' doesn't make the sound any longer. The e is just a signal telling us to pronounce the i (ee). French don't use I as in 'eye' in any of their language.


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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 9:46:47 AM   
DaddySatyr


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Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Merci. Je comprende.

I was just using "C'est la vie" as an example of how badly things can work out when one insists upon apply the rules of English to words that are from another language. I could have easily used "consigliere" or "taglia". There's no "silent G" that "softens" an "L" in English.

Since I went with those examples; if "consigliere" were to be anglicized, instead of "con - sil - i -air - y", it would come out: "con - sig - lee - air -y".

The point was that "semi", not being an English word, it's pretty silly to insist it get pronounced according to the rules of English.

Of course, I tolerate being called "Michael" when that is not the traditional Aramaic/Hebrew pronunciation. So ... go figger.





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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 10:09:08 AM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Ah ok! sorry for being a bit thick here.

To be honest I've never really given this much thought but you make a really good point. The British language uses so many borrowed/adopted words. Next time I go to the UK, perhaps Ill use the proper pronunciation and see if anyone can understand me. I think though, Ill get mobbed by the pedants

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RE: I don't get it - 11/13/2013 10:18:34 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		I get funny looks when I say "Prow sess" instead of "Prah sess" but the former is the correct (Latin) pronunciation of the word.

Ever since I lost my Brooklynese accent, I've had issues with people making fun of some of my pronunciations. Let's face it; Brooklyn is King's County so we speak "the King's English"





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RE: I don't get it - 11/17/2013 7:36:25 AM   
TheBanshee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: doctorgrey


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBanshee

aren't discussions about anglophiles against TOS?


I wouldn't have thought so.
As many people as wish it can like and appreciate the english.

But it doesn't matter if you don't.
We don't care.

DrG


It was an attempt at humor, geez

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