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RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 6:37:07 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Corporate+Tax+Benefits


The link didn't work for me.

But, you're talking about "Tax Benefits?" Aren't tax benefits simply reductions in what taxes are owed? If so, that means that the Government is reducing the amount of money the Corporation legally owes.

Joether responded in this thread with this:
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: joether
    Actually, its not your or my money going to any of these things. Its the United States of America's money. I know this will come as a shock, but DO TRY TO KEEP UP here:
    You have $30 Dollars in your pocket and you need gas for your pickup truck. You go to the gas station call 'Ezzy Eddie's Gas, Inc." and hand the clerk the $30 dollars. Your fill your tank of the $30 dollars. Now, here is the question: Can you dictate to the management of "Ezzy Eddie's Gas, Inc." (a corporation) of how it uses your $30 dollars? Why or why not?
    The United States Government is the same way in the metaphor above. Once you pay the taxes, and the money is deducted from your account to the USA's, the money is NO LONGER YOUR MONEY. You have NO RIGHTS over how, where, when, and to whom its used. NONE! However, you can have a 'chat' with your Representative and two Senator's to make sure the money in the budget is spent as you like. But that takes into account you realizing that this is a Democratic Republic and NOT a Dictatorship. They could take your view and go with it, or give you the middle finger and say 'fuck off'. Regardless, you have little to no say on how the US Government uses the money.
    And the money gets spent on a wide range of things. For all you know, all your tax dollars went to paying for toilet paper in the IRS's main office. Your hard earned bills went to paying so someone could wipe their asses of shit and throw it all down in the toilets. I like to think my tax dollars went towards something useful, like training US Medical Doctors to help our Marines after a deadly shoot out with some evil enemies. Bottom line is, its not your or mine money once we give it to the US Government. Its THEIR MONEY!


Just to make it clear, here is the crux of what I'm saying (quoting Joether again): "Once you pay the taxes, and the money is deducted from your account to the USA's, the money is NO LONGER YOUR MONEY."

The corollary to that is that if you don't legally have to pay it in taxes, the money isn't the USA's money, it's still yours. That works for you (specific), for you (general), and for Corporations.

How is it stealing when it's simply the Corporation keeping it's own money?



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 6:46:19 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
FR

This, from the inside. Link is to the WSJ. For those who have said government support of the economy is a good thing, here is news for you. No, it isn't. For those who believe government intervention, to even taking over (mandate) a huge portion of the economy, is a good thing, here's news for you. No, it isn't.

Now, in case you really don't get it... Obamacare is to Insurance as the FED/US Treasury is to the banks. For those who desire single-payer, that is but government as sole insurer.

I can only say: I'm sorry, America. As a former Federal Reserve official, I was responsible for executing the centerpiece program of the Fed's first plunge into the bond-buying experiment known as quantitative easing. The central bank continues to spin QE as a tool for helping Main Street. But I've come to recognize the program for what it really is: the greatest backdoor Wall Street bailout of all time.

Five years ago this month, on Black Friday, the Fed launched an unprecedented shopping spree. By that point in the financial crisis, Congress had already passed legislation, the Troubled Asset Relief Program, to halt the U.S. banking system's free fall. Beyond Wall Street, though, the economic pain was still soaring. In the last three months of 2008 alone, almost two million Americans would lose their jobs.


In its almost 100-year history, the Fed had never bought one mortgage bond. Now my program was buying so many each day through active, unscripted trading that we constantly risked driving bond prices too high and crashing global confidence in key financial markets. We were working feverishly to preserve the impression that the Fed knew what it was doing.


Trading for the first round of QE ended on March 31, 2010. The final results confirmed that, while there had been only trivial relief for Main Street, the U.S. central bank's bond purchases had been an absolute coup for Wall Street. The banks hadn't just benefited from the lower cost of making loans. They'd also enjoyed huge capital gains on the rising values of their securities holdings and fat commissions from brokering most of the Fed's QE transactions. Wall Street had experienced its most profitable year ever in 2009, and 2010 was starting off in much the same way.

You'd think the Fed would have finally stopped to question the wisdom of QE. Think again. Only a few months later—after a 14% drop in the U.S. stock market and renewed weakening in the banking sector—the Fed announced a new round of bond buying: QE2. Germany's finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, immediately called the decision "clueless."


Mr. Huszar, a senior fellow at Rutgers Business School, is a former Morgan Stanley managing director. In 2009-10, he managed the Federal Reserve's $1.25 trillion agency mortgage-backed security purchase program.


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 6:50:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:


For those who desire single-payer, that is but government as sole insurer.


And I am eminently good with that.  No negatives there.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 7:38:37 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
I can only say: I'm sorry, America. As a former Federal Reserve official, I was responsible for executing the centerpiece program of the Fed's first plunge into the bond-buying experiment known as quantitative easing. The central bank continues to spin QE as a tool for helping Main Street. But I've come to recognize the program for what it really is: the greatest backdoor Wall Street bailout of all time.

Gosh, and here I figured that out the moment I read about the plan. Me with no economics degree, no insider knowledge, no nothing but common sense and the fairly safe lodestone of "If the Fed is doing it it's to help Wall Street and hurt me".

I wish people understood this. Wall Street preys on main street in a predator/prey relationship.

Wealth accumulation demands that. The game is rigged and has been from day one against main street.



_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 8:09:08 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


The link didn't work for me.


The issues you have operating your computer aren't any of my concern.

Again, if your company has the money to pay a million dollar bonus, you're committing fraud when you say that you need a tax break.

If you find that's too difficult to parse and comprehend, that's none of my concern either.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 8:39:19 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

The link didn't work for me.

The issues you have operating your computer aren't any of my concern.
Again, if your company has the money to pay a million dollar bonus, you're committing fraud when you say that you need a tax break.
If you find that's too difficult to parse and comprehend, that's none of my concern either.


I think you have the mistake in comprehension, farglebargle. You may disagree that a business needs a tax break when it can afford to pay a million dollar bonus, but that is a separate issue of your "stealing" claim.

Who are you to decide what is or what isn't a proper wage or bonus for someone else? Upon what authority can you, or your elected government representatives make that decision for someone else, or for a Corporation?

ETA: The link only opened in IE, which I don't, generally, use. That's interesting (to me) because I have more issues with links in IE than Chrome or Firefox.

And, your link also didn't specify what you were griping about, so the only assumption is that you are opposed to each and every Corporate tax break.

Good luck with that.

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 11/12/2013 8:42:37 AM >


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 10:22:16 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

As a taxpayer, I'm DISGUSTED that there are companies that say they need tax breaks, but can pay executives million dollar bonuses.

IF a company awards anyone a million dollar bonus, they SURE AS HELL DON'T NEED MY TAX DOLLARS SUBSIDIZING THEM!

Aren't y'all pissed off at these corporate crooks, too?



Democrats take their money too. You're not pissed at them, are you?

What is it man ? Are you hardwired to the RNC or something ? Does every post become a new vehicle for what is mostly your ridiculous partisan shrill ?

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 10:30:07 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

As a tax payer, I'm pissed that my money goes for free needles so that people can continue to engage in illegal and medically dangerous behavior in a "safe" manner.

I'm pissed that my money gets spent giving condoms and other forms of birth control to under-age children without their parents' consent (through a "government outlet" where prayer isn't allowed but lewd behavior is encouraged).

I'm pissed that my money goes to support the "weed brigade" that would rather sit home, get high, and play video games because they found some quack doctor to sign on to the idea that they're unable to work.

I'm pissed that our military is used all over the world in an attempt to spread - not democracy - the socialist disease that our country is obviously invested in spreading.

I'm pissed that my tax dollars get paid to an agency that blatently targets a portion of the population for having a different opinion than the current piece of shit in the oval office.

I'm pissed that this government has decided that it's okay to kill American citizens without due process.

Lastly, I'm pissed that anyone that speaks out and doesn't march in lock stop with the current asshole-in-chief and his pablum-puking minions is treated like they haven't got two brain cells to rub together.

Fuck Obama and everything he stands for.



A tax payer


Oh hey. I am with you brother as we all know...these problems all started with Obama.

Besides, and Iam sure you will agree, we'd much prefer to be a republican farmer that does no farming and gets $50,000 from the federal govt. and $10,000 from the state govt. Plus I love that new what was it...Grand theft Auto on my playstation.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 10:34:43 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

As a taxpayer, I'm DISGUSTED that there are companies that say they need tax breaks, but can pay executives million dollar bonuses.

IF a company awards anyone a million dollar bonus, they SURE AS HELL DON'T NEED MY TAX DOLLARS SUBSIDIZING THEM!

Aren't y'all pissed off at these corporate crooks, too?


Me too. People like citigroup, bank of america. Hedge funds.

You know. Democrat donors.

What RNC publication was that one in ? Are we seeing a new George Will, calling capitalist desires democrat corruption...in the making but not nearly as eloquent.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 11:00:18 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

The link didn't work for me.

The issues you have operating your computer aren't any of my concern.
Again, if your company has the money to pay a million dollar bonus, you're committing fraud when you say that you need a tax break.
If you find that's too difficult to parse and comprehend, that's none of my concern either.


I think you have the mistake in comprehension, farglebargle. You may disagree that a business needs a tax break when it can afford to pay a million dollar bonus, but that is a separate issue of your "stealing" claim.

Who are you to decide what is or what isn't a proper wage or bonus for someone else? Upon what authority can you, or your elected government representatives make that decision for someone else, or for a Corporation?

ETA: The link only opened in IE, which I don't, generally, use. That's interesting (to me) because I have more issues with links in IE than Chrome or Firefox.

And, your link also didn't specify what you were griping about, so the only assumption is that you are opposed to each and every Corporate tax break.

Good luck with that.

I am opposed. Corporate tax breaks and all favors granted the corporation by govt., benefits only the corp. and its investors...not society at large which then on a fiscal level...must compensate for them.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 11:05:00 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Who are you to decide what is or what isn't a proper wage or bonus for someone else? Upon what authority can you, or your elected government representatives make that decision for someone else, or for a Corporation?


I would say the same applies to unions, and therefore labor. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 11:30:06 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

The link didn't work for me.

The issues you have operating your computer aren't any of my concern.
Again, if your company has the money to pay a million dollar bonus, you're committing fraud when you say that you need a tax break.
If you find that's too difficult to parse and comprehend, that's none of my concern either.

I think you have the mistake in comprehension, farglebargle. You may disagree that a business needs a tax break when it can afford to pay a million dollar bonus, but that is a separate issue of your "stealing" claim.
Who are you to decide what is or what isn't a proper wage or bonus for someone else? Upon what authority can you, or your elected government representatives make that decision for someone else, or for a Corporation?
ETA: The link only opened in IE, which I don't, generally, use. That's interesting (to me) because I have more issues with links in IE than Chrome or Firefox.
And, your link also didn't specify what you were griping about, so the only assumption is that you are opposed to each and every Corporate tax break.
Good luck with that.

I am opposed. Corporate tax breaks and all favors granted the corporation by govt., benefits only the corp. and its investors...not society at large which then on a fiscal level...must compensate for them.


Compensation for tax reductions can come in the form of spending reductions, no?




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 11:48:46 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Compensation for tax reductions can come in the form of spending reductions, no?

In theory... but for that to work we'd have to convince our glorious leaders that this flouncing around the globe playing big kid on the block is too damned expensive for us. Sadly, the power trip is WAY too addictive and the money interests WAY too powerful.

Or, alternately, rather than following the money we could blame it all on poor folk.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 12:51:08 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Compensation for tax reductions can come in the form of spending reductions, no?

In theory... but for that to work we'd have to convince our glorious leaders that this flouncing around the globe playing big kid on the block is too damned expensive for us. Sadly, the power trip is WAY too addictive and the money interests WAY too powerful.
Or, alternately, rather than following the money we could blame it all on poor folk.


Unless you forgot, there was some hundreds of billions of dollars that both the R's in the House and the D's and Obama agreed that could be squeezed out of Medicare, via "efficiencies." While that only amounts to some 10's of billions of dollars per year, it is a start. That there are inefficiencies in the system means that getting rid of them won't impact beneficiaries.

I also think we need to kick the SSI age requirement (for those 54 and younger) up a year or two to help shore it up. If this isn't going to be a "you paid in, so you'll get a commensurate benefit out" plan, the cap on taxable wages needs to rise. If we are going to make it an "everybody gets the same unadjusted benefit" program, I think there needs to be a hard line (but not a red line... those aren't hard enough) drawn regarding means testing.

I'm with you regarding cutting DoD spending. Maybe not as deep a cut as you might want, but I'm not talking scalpels or razors, either.

Interestingly enough, there is a Penny Plan that would balance the budget in 8 years through a reduction in real spending by 1% (one penny out of each and every dollar, as opposed to 5 pennies from these dollars and no pennies from these dollars, etc.) a year for 6 years and then cap spending at 18% starting in year 7. Phydeaux claimed around 55% of Federal spending is for entitlements, making them worth $2.035T for FY2013. Those programs would see a $20.35B reduction in spending in the first year. That comes out to a 5.85% reduction from current levels for the 6th year.

Personally, I'd much prefer we set different tax brackets, lowering everyone's tax marginal tax rates, but also get rid of all the deductions and exemptions, besides the "standard" deduction, based on the number of dependents.

It's feasible, but not likely to have any traction





_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 6:10:22 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

As a taxpayer, I'm DISGUSTED that there are companies that say they need tax breaks, but can pay executives million dollar bonuses.

IF a company awards anyone a million dollar bonus, they SURE AS HELL DON'T NEED MY TAX DOLLARS SUBSIDIZING THEM!

Aren't y'all pissed off at these corporate crooks, too?


Nope.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Companies STEALING YOUR TAX DOLLARS! - 11/12/2013 8:28:22 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
Yeah. Put me in the "nope" column.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 36
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