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RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 4:14:48 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		The union rank and file donate to the mayor?   You've never actually lived on this planet, have you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Police unions gone amok.

Pretty much impossible to fire people. So people kill dogs, eat donuts, sleep on the job with impunity.

So the guy goes to court. Win's his million bucks. City insurance pays. Mayor scolds the Police chief. Police chief makes noise - says he's going to fix things.

Nothing changes.

Overpaid police donate to police chief. Donate to Mayor.

And the only people that lose are the taxpayers.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 4:28:49 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		FR

The word 'dog' simply doesn't adequately cover all possible situations.  I wouldn't wish the wounds from an aggressive 80 to 130 pound dog on anyone.

And I wouldn't wish the pain of watching your family's animal killed that way, on anyone.

One of the problems is that the media has sensationalized certain breeds, and some of those have been made part of 'outlaw' culture...  Another is that there hasn't been a benchmark legal ruling that would cause law enforcement to adopt uniform policies and train to comply with them. 

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 6:12:46 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

One of the problems is that the media has sensationalized certain breeds, and some of those have been made part of 'outlaw' culture...


Yep. "In the first 5 months of 2013, pit bulls inflicted 93 percent of all dog bite fatalities. "

Found at https://www.causes.com/v2actions/1753697-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-sharply-rise-in-2013

That's one hell of a high percentage.

_____________________________

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(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 7:09:28 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		And one hell of a dishonest misuse of statistics...

During the most recent eight-year period (2005-12), pit bulls killed an average of 19 people per year



quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

One of the problems is that the media has sensationalized certain breeds, and some of those have been made part of 'outlaw' culture...


Yep. "In the first 5 months of 2013, pit bulls inflicted 93 percent of all dog bite fatalities. "

Found at https://www.causes.com/v2actions/1753697-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-sharply-rise-in-2013

That's one hell of a high percentage.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 7:17:37 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

And one hell of a dishonest misuse of statistics...

During the most recent eight-year period (2005-12), pit bulls killed an average of 19 people per year



quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

One of the problems is that the media has sensationalized certain breeds, and some of those have been made part of 'outlaw' culture...


Yep. "In the first 5 months of 2013, pit bulls inflicted 93 percent of all dog bite fatalities. "

Found at https://www.causes.com/v2actions/1753697-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-sharply-rise-in-2013

That's one hell of a high percentage.



In what way dishonest?

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(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 7:20:06 PM   
Urslaveman


Posts: 6
Joined: 3/11/2013
Status: offline 		2013 Dog Bite Fatality Victims:


Betty Todd, 65-years old - Killed by her son's pet pit bull.
Christian Gormanous, 4-years old - Killed by his neighbor's chained pit bull
Elsie Grace, 91-years old - Killed by her son's two pit bulls
Isaiah Aguilar, 2-years old - Killed by his neighbor's chained pit bull
Ryan Maxwell, 7-years old - Killed by a pit bull while visiting family friends
Daxton Borchardt, 14-months old - Killed by his babysitter's two pet pit bulls
Monica Laminack, 21-months old - Killed by her family's pet pit bulls
Tyler Jett, 7-years old - Killed by his neighbor's two pit bull-mix dogs
Claudia Gallardo, 38-years old - Killed by a property owner's pit bull
Jordyn Arndt, 4-years old - Killed by her babysitter's pit bull
Beau Rutledge, 2-years old - Killed by his family's pet pit bull
Rachael Honabarger, 35-years old - Killed by her family German shepherd
Pamela Devitt, 63-years old - Killed by a pack of loose pit bulls
Carlton Freeman, 80-years old - Killed by four roaming pit bulls

Media sensation? Bullshit these dogs are killers!

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 7:25:57 PM   
SweetAmber32


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline 		There has been a huge number of cops killing pits. It's more of a fear factor and a I'm a tough cop factor. There is a recent case where a cop walked into a yard a shot two pits to death. They were in THEIR yard, showing no aggression, and did not even go up to the cop. Witnesses (neighbors) said the cop just laughed after shooting them. Then there's another recent case, back East, where a corrections officer went up to kittens and he shot them all to death, in front of kids, as the kittens were eating kibble. Some guys (and these have all been guys) don't need to be carrying guns. They shouldn't even be in these jobs. They are the true danger. Yes pits can be dangerous. So too can, dobies, Chihuahuas, labs, etc. I grew up with a Dobie and a Chihuahua. Everybody was afraid of the Dobie, even when we told them it was the Chihuahua that was mean. One of my sisters friends found out how true that was as she ran through the house with a Chihuahua attached to her ass. So with this law suit, I hope the man wins.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 8:00:17 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Since when do corrections officers carry guns and go into people's yards?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetAmber32

There has been a huge number of cops killing pits. It's more of a fear factor and a I'm a tough cop factor. There is a recent case where a cop walked into a yard a shot two pits to death. They were in THEIR yard, showing no aggression, and did not even go up to the cop. Witnesses (neighbors) said the cop just laughed after shooting them. Then there's another recent case, back East, where a corrections officer went up to kittens and he shot them all to death, in front of kids, as the kittens were eating kibble. Some guys (and these have all been guys) don't need to be carrying guns. They shouldn't even be in these jobs. They are the true danger. Yes pits can be dangerous. So too can, dobies, Chihuahuas, labs, etc. I grew up with a Dobie and a Chihuahua. Everybody was afraid of the Dobie, even when we told them it was the Chihuahua that was mean. One of my sisters friends found out how true that was as she ran through the house with a Chihuahua attached to her ass. So with this law suit, I hope the man wins.

(in reply to SweetAmber32)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 8:04:53 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		In the logical fallacy way of omitting the fact that a tiny number (9 out of all the dogs out there) went up incrementally, and substituting the alarmist percentage in it's place.  Accuracy isn't always the same as intellectual honesty.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

And one hell of a dishonest misuse of statistics...

During the most recent eight-year period (2005-12), pit bulls killed an average of 19 people per year



quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

One of the problems is that the media has sensationalized certain breeds, and some of those have been made part of 'outlaw' culture...


Yep. "In the first 5 months of 2013, pit bulls inflicted 93 percent of all dog bite fatalities. "

Found at https://www.causes.com/v2actions/1753697-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-sharply-rise-in-2013

That's one hell of a high percentage.



In what way dishonest?

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 8:11:54 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		And the millions of large dogs that didn't kill anyone? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Urslaveman

2013 Dog Bite Fatality Victims:


Betty Todd, 65-years old - Killed by her son's pet pit bull.
Christian Gormanous, 4-years old - Killed by his neighbor's chained pit bull
Elsie Grace, 91-years old - Killed by her son's two pit bulls
Isaiah Aguilar, 2-years old - Killed by his neighbor's chained pit bull
Ryan Maxwell, 7-years old - Killed by a pit bull while visiting family friends
Daxton Borchardt, 14-months old - Killed by his babysitter's two pet pit bulls
Monica Laminack, 21-months old - Killed by her family's pet pit bulls
Tyler Jett, 7-years old - Killed by his neighbor's two pit bull-mix dogs
Claudia Gallardo, 38-years old - Killed by a property owner's pit bull
Jordyn Arndt, 4-years old - Killed by her babysitter's pit bull
Beau Rutledge, 2-years old - Killed by his family's pet pit bull
Rachael Honabarger, 35-years old - Killed by her family German shepherd
Pamela Devitt, 63-years old - Killed by a pack of loose pit bulls
Carlton Freeman, 80-years old - Killed by four roaming pit bulls

Media sensation? Bullshit these dogs are killers!


(in reply to Urslaveman)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 8:59:52 PM   
SweetAmber32


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline 		Whoops sorry. It was animal control. Not corrections.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 9:05:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Urslaveman

2013 Dog Bite Fatality Victims:


Betty Todd, 65-years old - Killed by her son's pet pit bull.
Christian Gormanous, 4-years old - Killed by his neighbor's chained pit bull
Elsie Grace, 91-years old - Killed by her son's two pit bulls
Isaiah Aguilar, 2-years old - Killed by his neighbor's chained pit bull
Ryan Maxwell, 7-years old - Killed by a pit bull while visiting family friends
Daxton Borchardt, 14-months old - Killed by his babysitter's two pet pit bulls
Monica Laminack, 21-months old - Killed by her family's pet pit bulls
Tyler Jett, 7-years old - Killed by his neighbor's two pit bull-mix dogs
Claudia Gallardo, 38-years old - Killed by a property owner's pit bull
Jordyn Arndt, 4-years old - Killed by her babysitter's pit bull
Beau Rutledge, 2-years old - Killed by his family's pet pit bull
Rachael Honabarger, 35-years old - Killed by her family German shepherd
Pamela Devitt, 63-years old - Killed by a pack of loose pit bulls
Carlton Freeman, 80-years old - Killed by four roaming pit bulls

Media sensation? Bullshit these dogs are killers!




Here is the problem with the above though. Pitbulls are currently "the" fashionable dog for shitty people who want a tough looking dog. The breed has been puppy-milled, and bred for fighting and aggression, so yes, there are a lot of shit dogs out there right now, in the hands of a lot of shit people.

And there are wonderful pitbulls, like my brother's dog, that rings a cowbell tied to the front door when he wants to go out, snuggles with all the family kids when they are at my brother's house, and with the cats when everybody is at work.

Before pitbulls, it was other breeds that were all the devil's hounds, and down the road, it will be some other breed.

I had a good long run with a wolf-hybrid (we never get to keep them long enough, do we?), that was both a fantastic family dog, and damn fine home security. I understood what I was dealing with, and I trained him right, but part of his job was to bark and be scary, and if some asshat cop had shot him for that, I would probably be dead or doing hard time, because I'd have shot the fucker back.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Urslaveman)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 10:04:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

In the logical fallacy way of omitting the fact that a tiny number (9 out of all the dogs out there) went up incrementally, and substituting the alarmist percentage in it's place.  Accuracy isn't always the same as intellectual honesty.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

And one hell of a dishonest misuse of statistics...

During the most recent eight-year period (2005-12), pit bulls killed an average of 19 people per year



quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

One of the problems is that the media has sensationalized certain breeds, and some of those have been made part of 'outlaw' culture...


Yep. "In the first 5 months of 2013, pit bulls inflicted 93 percent of all dog bite fatalities. "

Found at https://www.causes.com/v2actions/1753697-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-sharply-rise-in-2013

That's one hell of a high percentage.



In what way dishonest?


The best way to tell a lie is with the truth.
Example :
Prohibitionists claimed that during a year half the deaths of British soldiers in India died from overdrinking.
This was true.
One of the two soldiers who died one year was a victim of alcohol poisoning.
Their claim was true but it's use was a lie.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 10:05:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Urslaveman

2013 Dog Bite Fatality Victims:


Betty Todd, 65-years old - Killed by her son's pet pit bull.
Christian Gormanous, 4-years old - Killed by his neighbor's chained pit bull
Elsie Grace, 91-years old - Killed by her son's two pit bulls
Isaiah Aguilar, 2-years old - Killed by his neighbor's chained pit bull
Ryan Maxwell, 7-years old - Killed by a pit bull while visiting family friends
Daxton Borchardt, 14-months old - Killed by his babysitter's two pet pit bulls
Monica Laminack, 21-months old - Killed by her family's pet pit bulls
Tyler Jett, 7-years old - Killed by his neighbor's two pit bull-mix dogs
Claudia Gallardo, 38-years old - Killed by a property owner's pit bull
Jordyn Arndt, 4-years old - Killed by her babysitter's pit bull
Beau Rutledge, 2-years old - Killed by his family's pet pit bull
Rachael Honabarger, 35-years old - Killed by her family German shepherd
Pamela Devitt, 63-years old - Killed by a pack of loose pit bulls
Carlton Freeman, 80-years old - Killed by four roaming pit bulls

Media sensation? Bullshit these dogs are killers!




Here is the problem with the above though. Pitbulls are currently "the" fashionable dog for shitty people who want a tough looking dog. The breed has been puppy-milled, and bred for fighting and aggression, so yes, there are a lot of shit dogs out there right now, in the hands of a lot of shit people.

And there are wonderful pitbulls, like my brother's dog, that rings a cowbell tied to the front door when he wants to go out, snuggles with all the family kids when they are at my brother's house, and with the cats when everybody is at work.

Before pitbulls, it was other breeds that were all the devil's hounds, and down the road, it will be some other breed.

I had a good long run with a wolf-hybrid (we never get to keep them long enough, do we?), that was both a fantastic family dog, and damn fine home security. I understood what I was dealing with, and I trained him right, but part of his job was to bark and be scary, and if some asshat cop had shot him for that, I would probably be dead or doing hard time, because I'd have shot the fucker back.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 10:15:10 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks, that (unfortunately) makes more sense. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetAmber32

Whoops sorry. It was animal control. Not corrections.

(in reply to SweetAmber32)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 11:22:34 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

One of the problems is that the media has sensationalized certain breeds, and some of those have been made part of 'outlaw' culture...


Yep. "In the first 5 months of 2013, pit bulls inflicted 93 percent of all dog bite fatalities. "

Found at https://www.causes.com/v2actions/1753697-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-sharply-rise-in-2013

That's one hell of a high percentage.

it was a pit that bite me this year.. I have had a few minor dog bites before and they were more annoying than anything, some even comical (the little yappy ones).. but this pit that bit me, it had extremely strong jaws and it didn't want to let go.. not to mention there was no reason for it to charge up to me and attack me as I attempted to walk away from it.. the dog wasn't that big but it was very strong and crazy and dangerous.. it was the first time I have ever thought about getting something (taser, pepper spray, etc) to protect myself with...

< Message edited by tj444 -- 11/17/2013 11:23:28 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/17/2013 11:57:24 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		Holy Cow, can you guys like....STAY OUT TOPIC?

At issue is the contents of he video, the events as they are known, the police process for handling a situation like this, and the heartbreak of someone's pet being killed.

I love dogs, and watching that dog being killed really is sad. Looked like he was either confused and defending himself, or defending his territory. Either way, the dog was telling the officers "hey, I don't know you and your not being friendly". He's a dog. Unlike conservatives that do not understand most laws, the dog is excused for not knowing the guys in black are law enforcement. So he was by the looks of it, trying to keep the big animals away from him by barking at them. Living in 'the sticks' Massachusetts, pets get dumped by parents who don't want the animals anymore and go home to tell the kids "oh, woofy got hit by a car". Dealing with such an animal that is lost, scared and confused is NOT grounds for 'go in guns blazing'!

The officers for their part, look like they were trying to obtain information from the homeowner and other nearby individuals. I have no visibility on the actual police report stating the facts, nor a 'fly on the wall' of their superiors as the officers explained everything they knew leading up to the shooting itself. And neither do most of you! From the video, it looks like the officers tried to safely corner the and secure the dog by the neck with a 'catching' pole. With one officer holding (as someone in the video stated) a taser and not a pistol. For some reason, the dog was not secured and started to make a break for it. Looked for a moment like it might attack any of the officers (the female in particular) or charge a bystander. So one of the officers did what any police officer would do when lives are in jeopardy of attack by a threat: shoot to kill. Did it need five bullets? Depends: Shooting to wound and let the poor thing suffer? Shoot to kill and not let it suffer?

Not an easy decision when you have a nanosecond to contemplate the choice.

Does the guy have a right to sue the government over this? Yes. Will they win? I don't know. Do I think they should win? Its not my place to past judgment on it. Perhaps the city and police make a counter offer. Pay for the funeral expenses (yes, pets are family members). The officers in question (whether they did the right process or not) make a decent donation to area shelters to where this owner lives. Offer to pay the expenses (the department, not the officers) if the owner wishes to get another pet. Its not the city's fault, or the police department's. Yet, a crime was done and those involved should try their best to make amends. Its a very tough and tragic set of events. Everyone lost.


(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/18/2013 6:25:15 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetAmber32

Whoops sorry. It was animal control. Not corrections.



Isn't that the one where the lady called animal control to come out and get rid of the kittens and when the guy got there and told her they would have to kill the kittens and did she want to try to keep them, she said she couldn't? Now I would assume she thought he meant they would take the kittens somewhere else and kill them and that would have been the best way. But that isn't what happened. Either way the animals would have been killed so was she pissed because they killed them or because they did it where she could hear it happen?


Edited to add a note for joe....

I really thought there was no way for someone to try and twist this into a right vs left bullshitfest but I guess I underestimated you. Is it really that hard to talk about a subject without mentioning conservatives? Do you dream about them at night? Please help me understand this obsession you seem to have.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 11/18/2013 6:32:05 AM >

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to SweetAmber32)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/18/2013 6:42:22 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I really thought there was no way for someone to try and twist this into a right vs left bullshitfest but I guess I underestimated you. Is it really that hard to talk about a subject without mentioning conservatives? Do you dream about them at night? Please help me understand this obsession you seem to have.


There's one way in which the old right v left thing is interesting to me here: righties come over all liberal and politically correct when it comes to dogs. Gives me a wry smile, it does.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: owner suing police for killing dog - 11/18/2013 6:47:20 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I really thought there was no way for someone to try and twist this into a right vs left bullshitfest but I guess I underestimated you. Is it really that hard to talk about a subject without mentioning conservatives? Do you dream about them at night? Please help me understand this obsession you seem to have.


There's one way in which the old right v left thing is interesting to me here: righties come over all liberal and politically correct when it comes to dogs. Gives me a wry smile, it does.


Well they are mans best friend and all. Now if we could just get the owners to keep them safe we wouldn't have to read stories like this.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 40
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