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Educate me about High Protocol - 11/18/2013 11:17:42 PM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
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I'm so clueless I might not even be using the right terms here, so feel free to set me straight.

My relationship is not just low-protocol, it's practically no-protocol-at-all. I've always felt that I would find a high protocol environment to be quite stifling and frustrating, though in reality, perhaps it's just that I don't have enough self control or I am 'not submissive enough' to stick to a very rigid regime.

I'd really like to know the appeal of high protocol, and what it adds to the relationship, as well as the challenges it brings. I have a lot of questions but if anyone wants to just pick one or two, please do.

So I have a rough definition of what high protocol is:
- What's the difference between a protocol and a ritual?
- To what extent does high protocol overlap with micromanagement?
- What areas of your lives are dictated by protocol?
- Is it possible to be high protocol and live apart? What about being high protocol part time?

And then what I really want to know, is how it works for you:
- Do you use high protocol in relationships with a romantic element, or does it tend to work best in service-based relationships?
- Do you ever find that protocol 'gets in the way' of self-expression, or expressions of affection and spontaneous service? Or is that the point?
- How does the protocol make your relationship or experience better?
- Does it take long to get to grips with the protocols, and are there penalties or consequences for forgetting?
- How about deliberate breaking of protocol?
- Do you have 'time out' from the protocols for communication or to deal with unexpected issues, or are they dealt with without breaking protocol?
- Do you need high protocol for the relationship to satisfy you? If you found a new dom/sub tomorrow that interested you, would it be a deal-breaker if they didn't like it?

Bonus question for Leather folks: To what extent are any of the protocols universal in leather? Could you send your sub to serve someone else for a day and know they would use the same structure? If you were invited to say, a dinner party hosted by other leather folks, would there be an understanding about how the dominants and submissives would behave and interact?

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to get through this list.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

Post #: 1

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/18/2013 11:36:46 PM

directiveerror

Posts: 128
Joined: 11/17/2013
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most of the times where 'high protocol' environments have been involved in any of my placements it was a separate stage(i.e. high protocol was only for certain times of the day, then there were varying other setups for other times) being high protocol constantly is one of those things you only do for a short time and mostly just to see if you can. for one it is entirely about micromanaging(the way you stand, how deeply you breath, which muscles are tensed, the accent and pitch of your voice) most people even on the dom side of it dont have the focus to keep watching for it as long as they think they can, so it mostly becomes a game of 'who catches whom first' i've never been submissive but i always liked a challenge and so i got myself into these situations briefly more than a couple times.... but i am very outspoken, cocky, bright and shiny and have a great personality that people flock to naturally and i have always found it stifling as well... sure i can do it, but why? after a couple days i'm just going to break position stretch grab a beer plop myself on the couch and say "so what we watching".... quickly to be followed with my blood splattering across the wall of course but eh had to stop at some point. when i was around other girls of which the same things were expected they always had my opinion of it(rarely as vocal, usually a nervous chuckle was the most agreement you would ever hear in front of anyone), or they were just trying to do a good job and so confused as to why they were failing and would cycle between crying in their alone time to emotionlessness after a few weeks of spazzing out. i've never seen it translate so that the girl(all girls in my cases) used high protocol even when the dom wasnt around... most might be a little shy the first time they stepped in no-go areas, or crying and fall to the ground the first time they tried to stand... but thats why i would go to these places in the first place, to undo the brainwashing..... it's not healthy to be scared all the time, or feeling hopeless and thats what i've run into when around it.... theoretically however it could be about showing people what they are capable of and building them up, but freedom always accomplishes that much more effectively in my opinion.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 2

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/18/2013 11:41:09 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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You might wanna PM Otterswim. Otter's into that stuff.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to directiveerror)

Post #: 3

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/19/2013 1:14:36 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Lots here, so I'll give this a shot. It's late in My time zone, so this will be far from perfect. For ease of typing, I'm just going to use Master and slave for everything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

I'm so clueless I might not even be using the right terms here, so feel free to set me straight.

My relationship is not just low-protocol, it's practically no-protocol-at-all. I've always felt that I would find a high protocol environment to be quite stifling and frustrating, though in reality, perhaps it's just that I don't have enough self control or I am 'not submissive enough' to stick to a very rigid regime.

I'd really like to know the appeal of high protocol, and what it adds to the relationship, as well as the challenges it brings. I have a lot of questions but if anyone wants to just pick one or two, please do.

So I have a rough definition of what high protocol is:
- What's the difference between a protocol and a ritual?

A protocol is a standard of the way things are done. This is where things like a rule about always sitting at a Master's feet or that the Master is starts eating before the slave is permitted to begin. (Examples only. Not saying everyone does this.) Protocol can pertain to a household, or a group. A ritual is a specific interaction between the people within the dynamic. Stuff like the way a collar and cuffs are put on before play or how somebody gets greeted when they come home. (Again, examples.) While many people have rituals that look similar to the rituals others might have, they are specific to the power exchange.

quote:

- To what extent does high protocol overlap with micromanagement?

It doesn't, necessarily. Micro-management, in My opinion, is about dictating what happens to all of the slave's time. High protocol doesn't necessarily mean that. Instead, the slave carries out their duties according to the standard that the way things are done. While the protocol of the house might be to ask permission to go to a movie, it doesn't have to include things like what movie the slave is allowed to see, when they have to buy their popcorn, etc.

quote:

- What areas of your lives are dictated by protocol?

I tend to introduce protocols slowly, so we're just in the beginning phases of this. There's some kneeling being introduced, of course, and when that should happen. How to address Me. What communication is necessary. Learning the rules of the household.

quote:

- Is it possible to be high protocol and live apart? What about being high protocol part time?

Yes. Living apart doesn't mean the protocols aren't in force when you are together.

Also yes. Many people don't do high protocol all of the time. They prefer to be high protocol only for events and special occasions.

quote:

And then what I really want to know, is how it works for you:
- Do you use high protocol in relationships with a romantic element, or does it tend to work best in service-based relationships?

Personally, I don't do D/s or M/s with a romantic element. There are people who have a romantic component to their relationships who are high protocol as well. There's one couple here that I've never seen the slave's ass in a chair except in vanilla settings.

quote:

- Do you ever find that protocol 'gets in the way' of self-expression, or expressions of affection and spontaneous service? Or is that the point?

High protocol doesn't necessarily take away self expression. The protocol might be that a slave has to kneel or wait to be recognized before they speak, but once given, they express themselves. Not all protocols for a household are always the same of the protocols of other households. While one household may have a "ask before touching Master" rule, another house may not have that rule at all. In My house, the protocol that I should always have diet pepsi at My desk wouldn't be the same protocol for somebody who likes coffee.

In My opinion, the point of high protocol is about the formality. For some, that brings the power imbalance to the forefront of the participant's minds all of the time. It's a way to express it that isn't always present in the same way in more laid back dynamics.

quote:

- How does the protocol make your relationship or experience better?

I like the formality and the reinforcement that it brings. It's an expression of the way the power imbalance is displayed. On the s-side, I've had folks tell Me that it gives them a certain type of s-type buzz space that they don't have when it's not present. It's something that some folks can enjoy even just during the course of an event that makes them feel more in touch with themselves.

quote:

- Does it take long to get to grips with the protocols, and are there penalties or consequences for forgetting?

It depends on how many protocols there are and how quickly a person can learn them effectively. It helps to introduce them a bit at a time, rather than to pile them on a person all at once. Just like you wouldn't expect a person who has never done a type of job before to be perfect at it from day one, you take a new person and teach them as they go.

Penalties and consequences would depend on the individual. Would I give a consequence to somebody just starting out with Me if they forgot a protocol that they are just getting used to? No. Would I do it if they were acquainted with that protocol for years? Probably.

quote:

- How about deliberate breaking of protocol?

To Me, that's pretty similar to what is commonly known as intentional disobedience. Pretty much, that's a person telling Me that they don't want to follow the rules of the household. If it's continual and intentional, they will probably be better off being in a dynamic with somebody else.

quote:

- Do you have 'time out' from the protocols for communication or to deal with unexpected issues, or are they dealt with without breaking protocol?

High protocol doesn't necessarily mean that a slave can't have a discussion with the Master. Some households have specific protocols for the way such things are approached. Others might not.

I think I might do better with an example of what you are thinking of when you say unexpected issues. That could be anything from a house fire to a traffic jam that prevented somebody from being home to greet the Master on time.

quote:

- Do you need high protocol for the relationship to satisfy you? If you found a new dom/sub tomorrow that interested you, would it be a deal-breaker if they didn't like it?

Probably. Since My dynamics are secondary relationships, I expect certain benefits from them and protocols and rituals are a part of this. If the dynamic wasn't living up to all I want it to be, I really don't need it.

quote:

Bonus question for Leather folks: To what extent are any of the protocols universal in leather? Could you send your sub to serve someone else for a day and know they would use the same structure? If you were invited to say, a dinner party hosted by other leather folks, would there be an understanding about how the dominants and submissives would behave and interact?

Some are. Some aren't. Things like introductions or seniority dictating who speaks first are pretty universal. (Seniority is the key for a lot of things about leather.) Areas like "evening dress" are pretty standard. Not initiating a conversation with a collared person without their Master present is a pretty safe bet at a high protocol event.

Sending someone to another person's house is honestly going to depend on the host. If they did a good job of outlining the protocols for their home, it shouldn't be a problem. If they didn't, it could be a wreck. High protocol doesn't mean all protocols are the same for every household or every gathering. There are usually slight adjustments to be made. A good host of a high protocol event will try to set the evening's protocols in such a way that it won't conflict with the protocols or rituals of their guests.

quote:

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to get through this list.

I hope it helped in some way.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 4

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/19/2013 4:40:25 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

This is a famous internet description of high protocol.

http://www.evilmonk.org/a/protocol.cfm?PlayNiceFormat=6

I don't know how accurate it is, but it's been around "forever" (i.e., as long as the world wide web) so a lot of people think this is what high protocol is, whether it's true or not.

Also, if you search "BDSM high protocol manual" you'll find some manuals in pdf format. I don't know whether they are used, or just used for masturbation, so I won't link them here. But there's a fair amount of reading material close by, so to speak.

Edit: I posted the wrong page of the article -- meant to start at Section 1 -- but I'll leave it as is because it's interesting. A more general page from the same site is here.

http://www.evilmonk.org/a/manners.cfm

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 11/19/2013 5:19:13 AM >

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 5

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/19/2013 7:37:17 AM

OttersSwim

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Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline

LadyP's reply was extensive and very much along the lines of what I would say to this.

To my mind, a "protocol" is something that is done repeatedly in a relationship that helps enforce/reinforce the structure of the relationship. Protocol and ritual can be very close in their meaning and intent depending on how they are applied.

So I view my morning service to my Lady as a protocol and a ritual - helping her to get ready and out the door. It is simple, and it doesn't involve any real structure, but it does reinforce our dynamic very well.

That said, my Lady and I have a very informal dynamic. We revel in the spontaneity that we get from simply "flying" as we go. We both "fly a close chase" to the other and an imposed rigid structure would impinge on that. We do however enjoy concepts of high protocol around specific events such as dinners.

Under an event structure, you can create any sort of protocol you desire - eye and speech limitations, bondage, dress, manner of serving, etc. Typically, the protocols for an event are created by the event host, and in my mind, a good host will try to create protocols that do not directly impinge on the dynamics of his/her guests, or they will seek input on what protocols will be in place for the guests selected. This is not always easy...

The most successful "High Protocol" events I have been to, involve a period where the protocols are in place (i.e., a dinner), and a period where they end and individual dynamics reinstate themselves.

The term "High" is so completely open to interpretation that I tend to shy away from it. What is considered "High" Protocol to one person may not be considered so by another.

As with many things in life, I find it better to not get too hung up on terminology and simply do what works best for your dynamic. :)

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 6

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/19/2013 9:25:56 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

So I have a rough definition of what high protocol is:

Protocol is just the scripted manner one behaves. High is often related to the frequency and breathe that protocols in ones life.

- What's the difference between a protocol and a ritual?

A protocol is but a scripted way to behave in a specific situation. A ritual is that but secondary to the emotional and mental bonding one is symbolizing with the set of behaviours. Ie protocol.... Master enters room before slave. Ritual. Exchange of rings at a wedding ceremony.

- To what extent does high protocol overlap with micromanagement?

Protocol is about the way one behaves in given situations and I see micro management as the minute to minute decisions that is made by Master.

- What areas of your lives are dictated by protocol?

All of them.

- Is it possible to be high protocol and live apart? What about being high protocol part time?

Yes to living apart. Ones master does have to be in close proximity to the slave. I have three basic situations which require various degrees of protocols. Formal, Standard and Causal protocol. The determining factor is the situation and environment we are in. For example. In formal and standard protocol the girls address me as " my Lord". In causal protocol they address me as "my love". In formal protocol they don't speak unless spoken to first and use hand signals if they need to communicate to me. In standard and causal they are free to initiate conversation.

- Do you use high protocol in relationships with a romantic element, or does it tend to work best in service-based relationships?

Either or.

- Do you ever find that protocol 'gets in the way' of self-expression, or expressions of affection and spontaneous service? Or is that the point?

No... If I did change the protocol . The whole point of protocols is to express one self in a manner that reflects ones relationship.

Ie... When the girls are in formal protocol... They are expressing affection to me by their very adherence to the protocols in place.

- How does the protocol make your relationship or experience better?

It reinforces the authority dynamic. It's my opinion that mindfulness is a key skill in our dynamic. The protocols are a key in developing this skill.

- Does it take long to get to grips with the protocols, and are there penalties or consequences for forgetting?

Yes and no. Simple protocols can be easy to adapt to but when they are different than the habit one is doing it can take time to develop. Secondly... I like to change things up.... It good for exercising that skill of mindfulness.

There are no penalties or punishments. Never will be!

- How about deliberate breaking of protocol?

That is wilful disobedience .... Their is the door. It not about breaking the protocol it about authority at that point.

- Do you have 'time out' from the protocols for communication or to deal with unexpected issues, or are they dealt with without breaking protocol?

No... My protocols allow for better communication not hinder it.

- Do you need high protocol for the relationship to satisfy you? If you found a new dom/sub tomorrow that interested you, would it be a deal-breaker if they didn't like it?

I require protocols to enhance our relationship. Yes it would be a deal breaker. By the way.. I found a new girl this past summer.. And we are in the process of her developing the all the protocols I have.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 7

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/19/2013 2:41:53 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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The only people I know who do this don't live with their partner. It's carried out once or twice a week when they get together.

Because you can't be naked, mute, on your knees 24/7. Or whatever turns you on.

Normal people share their lives and need to do that. Having to ask permission to take the baby to the doctor for an ear infection, with him possibly refusing you permission to speak for six hours doesn't work. Or being refused permission to vent about how your mother is driving you bonkers because he doesn't want to be bothered, just leads to resentment.

Going to a dungeon with a chain attached to your collar, eyes downcast, standing behind him with hands behind your back for three hours could be amusing. Not for me, but for others. But you can't do that all the time and sustain a strong, loving relationship.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 8

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/19/2013 2:54:31 PM

directiveerror

Posts: 128
Joined: 11/17/2013
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as someone once told me "sure i prefer women not to speak, but i also know that the second i ordered you not to i would only have myself to blame when the house was burning down and you didnt come to tell me... and i know you would be standing their with matches just to prove a point"

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 9

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/19/2013 2:55:49 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

By these definitions, my late Sir and I had a high protocol relationship. But we didn't think of it that way. I had rules and I followed them. They were fairly encompassing but not restrictive ( well, if you consider having to ask to go to the loo and not shutting the door not restrictive).
For me, I found them very liberating because I didn't have to guess at what my Sir wanted - I knew because he had already told me.

I had to laugh at the comment about her butt not hitting a chair - because we started that way, but he liked to cuddle too much to leave me on the floor. Well, that and the fact that I was almost 50 when we met and I wasn't as flexible as I once was.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 10

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/19/2013 10:44:51 PM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
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Thank you so much for the extremely thorough responses. I will be back later to discuss some of the points in more detail, but I thought I'd leave a quick note to let you all know I haven't abandoned the thread. I appreciate the time you've all put into your posts.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 11

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/19/2013 11:15:16 PM

DanielleofMists

Posts: 57
Joined: 8/11/2013
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It would be quite irresponsible, negligent and ridiculous on both sides if anyone waited for six hours to take a baby to receive necessary medical care for any reason. Something that comes to mind for me; I'm required to ask KoM to be excused when I leave his presence if we've been interacting. If I happen to have a migraine with nausea, I can get up to go be sick as needed without asking to be excused. Common sense has to prevail. We recently had a discussion about how we are to do his will but we are expected to be mindful and consider the consequences. The example he gave was if he told us to cross the street and if doing so would mean we step in front of an oncoming vehicle, it is our responsibility to give him the information he needs to make the best decisions for us. Getting hit by a vehicle would not be in our best interest. Mindless drones who don't think for themselves or use common sense are frankly a hazard to themselves and the relationship.

Your example of being refused permission to vent about how your mother is driving you crazy… I suppose if you were constantly shut down when you were trying to share feelings, feelings of resentment could creep in. In our case we have a protocol for sharing thoughts and feelings: ideally we would want to share in person but that might not always be possible, so we have the option of sending him an email labeled Thoughts and Feelings. Some things we keep in mind are: he's not always open to listen and hear what we need to say for a variety of reasons. It in no way reflects that what we need to share isn't important or not valid. But to have effective communication both sides have to be prepared to listen! As well as being in the proper state to talk. We also have an expectation to be constructive in our communication, so endless ranting and raving wouldn't be tolerated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Normal people share their lives and need to do that. Having to ask permission to take the baby to the doctor for an ear infection, with him possibly refusing you permission to speak for six hours doesn't work. Or being refused permission to vent about how your mother is driving you bonkers because he doesn't want to be bothered, just leads to resentment.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 12

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/20/2013 3:22:18 AM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanielleofMists

It would be quite irresponsible, negligent and ridiculous on both sides if anyone waited for six hours to take a baby to receive necessary medical care for any reason. Something that comes to mind for me; I'm required to ask KoM to be excused when I leave his presence if we've been interacting. If I happen to have a migraine with nausea, I can get up to go be sick as needed without asking to be excused. Common sense has to prevail. We recently had a discussion about how we are to do his will but we are expected to be mindful and consider the consequences. The example he gave was if he told us to cross the street and if doing so would mean we step in front of an oncoming vehicle, it is our responsibility to give him the information he needs to make the best decisions for us. Getting hit by a vehicle would not be in our best interest. Mindless drones who don't think for themselves or use common sense are frankly a hazard to themselves and the relationship.

Your example of being refused permission to vent about how your mother is driving you crazy… I suppose if you were constantly shut down when you were trying to share feelings, feelings of resentment could creep in. In our case we have a protocol for sharing thoughts and feelings: ideally we would want to share in person but that might not always be possible, so we have the option of sending him an email labeled Thoughts and Feelings. Some things we keep in mind are: he's not always open to listen and hear what we need to say for a variety of reasons. It in no way reflects that what we need to share isn't important or not valid. But to have effective communication both sides have to be prepared to listen! As well as being in the proper state to talk. We also have an expectation to be constructive in our communication, so endless ranting and raving wouldn't be tolerated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Normal people share their lives and need to do that. Having to ask permission to take the baby to the doctor for an ear infection, with him possibly refusing you permission to speak for six hours doesn't work. Or being refused permission to vent about how your mother is driving you bonkers because he doesn't want to be bothered, just leads to resentment.

One of the things that I have always appreciated about KOM and all of His girls is how grounded and sensible you all are.

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to DanielleofMists)

Post #: 13

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/20/2013 6:57:48 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

One of the things that I have always appreciated about KOM and all of His girls is how grounded and sensible you all are.

Thank you. Every time my ego starts to inflate the girls are sure to pop it ;). So being ground is to their credit.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 14

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/20/2013 7:15:42 AM

DanielleofMists

Posts: 57
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Well thank you, I appreciate the compliment!

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 15

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/20/2013 7:33:51 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Normal people share their lives and need to do that. Having to ask permission to take the baby to the doctor for an ear infection, with him possibly refusing you permission to speak for six hours doesn't work. Or being refused permission to vent about how your mother is driving you bonkers because he doesn't want to be bothered, just leads to resentment.

What kind of person could possibly refuse a child necessary and immediate medical treatment? What kind of person would be in a relationship with such a person?

Frankly.... There are alot of serious issues at play here if this happening. It's not question of protocols that's for sure.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 16

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/20/2013 8:39:36 AM

KnightofMists

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I wanted to address the term. "High" protocol. In short... The word "High" is unnecessary except maybe to inflate ones ego.

My family has been reference by those we know as a family of High Protocol. But we don't see it as that way. Yes we have protocols and maybe we have more than some but less than others. We are a dynamic that have protocols and I use them to enrich and enhance our relationship. There are many relationship tools people use to enrich and enhance their relationship and protocols are just one of many. It's not a necessary tool except for those that deem to necessary for their dynamic.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 17

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/20/2013 9:47:20 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
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Thank you all so much for your responses. I'm going to answer in fairly general terms because you've all given such good input, I don't want to offend anyone by not answering their post specifically.

(I know that not everyone was keen on the phrase 'high protocol' but I'm going to keep using it for simplicity in typing, hope no one minds)

I have to admit that the mental picture I had of 'high protocol' was similar to what Des talked about. Those of you that have high-protocol interactions seem to paint a different picture. The internet-tainted idea I had of it heavily features speech and eye-contact restrictions, lots of kneeling and/or holding of set positions, ritualistic greetings etc. To what extent do these types of things happen? Are these a 'just on special occasions' type of behaviour or a little-and-often sort of thing?

Would you consider someone high protocol if they had a lot of clear expectations but none of those classic/stereotypical things? Could we be high protocol and never once ask permission to speak or leave the room? Or are they certain core behaviours that mean 'high protocol' to you?

I'm somewhat fascinated by the concept because I think it would feel very unnatural to me. I feel the flush of embarrassment very easily when told to do things like kneel, crawl, hold a position, or say a certain line during play, because it feels like I am taking on an artificial role (and to be honest, I'm self-conscious because of cripplingly low self-esteem). I would have a hard time conducting a whole relationship where these things featured highly because of that. Undoubtedly I'd also have a hard time exercising that degree of self control. The very fact that it makes me uncomfortable also makes me think that it's something I should explore and challenge myself with, to see if I could focus entirely on obedience and turn off the inner critic.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall at a high-protocol event and see how different people behave and handle it.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 18

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/20/2013 10:14:44 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

There are many reasons why people want protocols in their dynamic. However, it's been my experience successful dynamics that have protocols tend to have the protocols that resonate with the individuals in the dynamic. It seems absolutely silly to me to have protocols that hinder the relationship instead of enhancing it!

Ie.. I have no eye restriction protocol. I find it gives no value to my dynamics and even hinders it. For others they find it does. This doesn't make anyone better. Just unique. I find it wonder that people are doing what enriches and enhances their dynamic and not because "High" protocol people do X.

I really don't consider a person "high" protocol or not. It frankly doesn't matter to me. What perks my interest is are they enriched and enhance by the protocols they have. If they are fantastic. If not.. Then I wonder why the hell are they doing? Exactly what the protocols are is of no significant importance to me unless they are trying to draw me into their protocol. Ie. In formal protocol my girls don't initiate speech with anyone. However it doesn't stop others to interact with them. It would be foolish for me to expect others not to initiate interaction with the girls regardless of the set protocols they are following in a given situation.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 19

RE: Educate me about High Protocol - 11/20/2013 10:39:33 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

I'm somewhat fascinated by the concept because I think it would feel very unnatural to me. I feel the flush of embarrassment very easily when told to do things like kneel, crawl, hold a position, or say a certain line during play, because it feels like I am taking on an artificial role (and to be honest, I'm self-conscious because of cripplingly low self-esteem). I would have a hard time conducting a whole relationship where these things featured highly because of that. Undoubtedly I'd also have a hard time exercising that degree of self control. The very fact that it makes me uncomfortable also makes me think that it's something I should explore and challenge myself with, to see if I could focus entirely on obedience and turn off the inner critic.

I want you to appreciate that the number or type of protocols that exist in a dynamic is only of importance in relatingthe value it gives to the individual dynamic. It has no value in comparison to other dynamics.

Secondly... Correct me if I am wrong. But it appears to me you are questioning your submission to your husband. That you are seeing protocols as a away to strengthen your submission to him but you are filled with a lot sorts of hesitations and doubts about protocols.

I might be wrong but that is what I am seeing from your words. If right... I suggest the following..

1 you lead he follows is what I see in your profile. Consider how that makes you feel following him. Don't value judge it?! Ie.. Don't try to consider if you do it good enough etc. just consider how you feel in those times that you follow. Start to consider those times when it was just so right! Keep those memories alive and active in your mind! Consider how at peace and content your relationship in those moments. Dont value judge!

2. Those memories show you things you did well. Look at how you can do them more often. Is there other things you like doing? See how you try these things. Talk with your husband. Don't try to introduce a bunch of new things 2-3 things absolute max. Even one new thing is fantastic.

3. Remember... You are empowered to enhance your relationship. Both of you are. You have thoughts and feelings that can enrich your life together. Your thoughts and feelings has already enriched your life and you been together five years. That's is fantastic! You have been apart of that relationship... You helped it be where it is today. Your actions and choices helped it get there and they will help in the future too! Seems to me you have something to feel good about and consider that regardless of how many protocols you have or not have you are making choices that work for you. So what will is one thing you can decide that will enhance your relationship today?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 20

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