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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 8:12:59 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		By your own admission you don't know enough to judge those of us posting our opinions...but you did so anyway.  Why?

(in reply to SmokeyM)
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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 8:16:08 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Well thats easy, child molesters deserve to be bashed..and probably killed..a really long slow torturous death. I'm actually quite opinionated about that and wont hesitate to offer it in complete judgement of the individuals.

< Message edited by slavejali -- 7/3/2006 8:19:00 PM >

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 8:29:07 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

a man she'd never met


Actually this would be an assumption on your part.... The article in fact doesn't indicate or not indicate that she had ever met the individual face to face.  I do recall at one gathering that I attended where I met the girl in question, that he was coming to visit in a few months.  I don't know if he ever came, but I don't know if he didn't either.

It really is a small point... but often we read something and we all tend to read more or sometimes less than what is actually there.  It does sometimes cause us to jump on or off a band wagon because of these assumptions/mispreceptions/miscommuications.  In the case in question we actually no very little... but what we do know is rather horrific in most people's minds.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 7/3/2006 8:30:27 PM >

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 10:41:47 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aleshaDreams

I don't wish to trash anyone on this board but reading the constant recommendations to leave that Dom, walk away blah blah blah without knowing the whole dynamic has become a fustration in my mind.  What.....should we all walk away when the going gets tough, or should we standup and fight for those that have meaning in our lives so that they stay close.

Yes I know certainly there is the common sense issue, but then again common sense to you may not be common sense to another.

I see this a lot too, and think similarly.  A few sentences from an individual will have others telling that person to walk away from an important relationship, without really being informed on the issue.  I tend to find those responses to be reactionary, impulsive, and irresponsible.  First, we are only seeing one person's point of view, and most importantly, we are only getting a snapshot of a very large album.  Then again, people will respond passionately to that which touches them deeply.  In an open forum like this, that is bound to happen.

As for the article, we do not know the details.  A horrific situation like that can not fully be explained or explored in a few short paragraphs.  It is a tragedy, none the less. 

(in reply to aleshaDreams)
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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 10:53:30 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Owned... though I agree with ... only getting one person's point of view.. or half the story... we do tend to base our opinions on what we are being told. I made a comment few weeks ago.. about someone up and moving in with someone lock stock and barrel... having never met this person at all before.. I was harsh in my statement.. but going strictly on the information given... I still stand by my opinion.

I actually try to stay away from those types of threads.. specially after the one young man on here ... lost a dom to death but was agree to meet with his brother to whom he never met... alone.. in a motel... another advice thread.. I should of avoided ( never heard how that went either...and still do not care either)

Another sub posted an advice thread on here... that I got bashed for.. and it started the Saying No thread.. because I joked about the OP... because not enough information was given.. so I crossed others lines of thoughts in the subject.

As to the OP... remember this always...and make your life more easier... the old cliche... you can't please all the people all of the time.. and can only please some of the people some of the time... so please yourself.....and don't worry about everyone else.




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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 11:01:38 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~ tosses True an apple cause it's been awhile ~

I can understand some things make you want to shout "Don't do it!!!!"  (although there are so many success stories about people who have moved in with someone they had not physically met before, so I stay away from condeming that action).  I do remember that thread about the young man, and a lot of people wisely told him he was probably being taken.  What I'm talking about (exaggerating here) is, "Oh my Master yelled at me today" which is followed up with "Oh my God, LEAVE the bastard!!!"

I recall the other thread too, and those who know you knew to just laugh at your post as "Oh there goes True again." LOL.  (At least that's what I did!)  But you see, you were the recipient of those who didn't know better (although you were made famous by having a thread in your honor, lol).  Do you want to put that on others?  (back atcha)

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 7/3/2006 11:17:24 PM >

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 11:13:44 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		OK... now I understand more of what you and the OP were refering too.  Makes it easier when you explain it that way.. and you're right.. people are very quick to yell that.. based on information provided... guilty as charged...... so I do try to stay clear of those threads more so today...

Thanks for apple... was getting thirsty..LOL... hope it's a juicy one.....


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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/3/2006 11:16:43 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Guilty huh?  Well, you'll look cute in stripes. 

And it's the juiciest one ever.  Polished all nicely just for you. 

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/4/2006 12:43:31 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I have met some folks who seem to thrive on adversity. If their life is not some soap opera of intrigue and suffering, they seem to think it is not happening. They will stir the happy pot just to get things screwed up again. Drama Queens/Kings.

I steer clear of them, because it is not my idea of excitement or fulfillment. But if all involved are enjoying the episodes, fine for them. Just don't splatter innocent bystanders with the melodrama. Maybe they can make it to Jerry Springer.

(in reply to aleshaDreams)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/4/2006 3:07:47 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I have three simple (one not so savory) answers to this query -

1) People like to talk - and sometimes the thing they most like to talk about is other people. It seems to be human nature - the National Enquirer is still doing a land office business even though it's the sleaziest rag ever (I also find it one of the most amusing. I read it sometimes). It's a pheomenon that is as old as the hills; plus, this is sort of a chat site (although quite educational and of course it has a different purpose). It is something to discuss (albeit with a purpose). And -

2) Some people really are trying to be helpful and do believe that everyone's personal experiences are the same on some level (I personally have never bought this idea - at all). Maybe one some level, they are similar, though - so they put their two cents in. To educate, or raise awareness of some issue or topic area.  Their intentions are maybe good, regardless of how other people may help their efforts to play out.  

3) There are people with personal experiences or some experience with the issue in question that make sit difficult for them to remain silent. Or, they just have an opinion - they do have a right to express it - it is just an opinion; nobody's opinion is "the truth" - it's their opinion, period.

Of course some people are just judgmental in a nasty way, all the time - this to me has never been the same thing (ever) as displaying good judgment, but some folks equate the two (or seem to do that). And me saying that was probably judgmental (hehe).  

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/4/2006 4:03:14 AM >

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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/4/2006 4:57:37 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

a man she'd never met


Actually this would be an assumption on your part.... The article in fact doesn't indicate or not indicate that she had ever met the individual face to face.  I do recall at one gathering that I attended where I met the girl in question, that he was coming to visit in a few months.  I don't know if he ever came, but I don't know if he didn't either.

It really is a small point... but often we read something and we all tend to read more or sometimes less than what is actually there.  It does sometimes cause us to jump on or off a band wagon because of these assumptions/mispreceptions/miscommuications.  In the case in question we actually no very little... but what we do know is rather horrific in most people's minds.


The article only mentions online activities, from which I drew an inference.  Whether correct or incorrect, my view is based on the information presented.  My inference, however, does not change the facts of the case.   I don't consider drawing an inference to be wrong in any way.  The inference may be incorrect, and that can be changed with the presentation of additional facts, but humans draw conclusions, make assumptions and draw inferences daily in the simplest of ways.  It's part of the decision making process.

Even if the couple had met face to face, would it change this case at all? Even if the couple had lived together, would it do anything other than make the case and probably the abuse even more horrific?

Would it have been better if I had instead said, "a man she'd probably had never met" ?  That too, would have been an inference.  One I couldn't draw very well, as the article only mentions the couple's online interactions.

Regardless, the people have no defense for their crimes and the poor child will live with the effects of the entire situation for the whole of his life.


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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/4/2006 5:19:01 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie


I don't consider drawing an inference to be wrong in any way.  The inference may be incorrect, ....


I find this amusing and sad.  Yup we can make ANY inference we want ... Nothing wrong with that you say.  So what if it's wrong!  No consequence to that... we just fix its wrong.  Fortunately, most people are not so reckless.... and actually are concerned about making Accurate Inferences if they do make them!  Particular when it could have serious consequences to ones relationship or impact on another person's life. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/4/2006 5:43:03 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		When we hear about people arrested, the argument could also be made that they are innocent until proven guilty. However, let someone be arrested for a serious crime and he/she will be kept in jail without bond until the trial. We protect ourselves from criminals by erring on the side of caution, inferences or not.

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/4/2006 6:14:55 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie


I don't consider drawing an inference to be wrong in any way.  The inference may be incorrect, ....


I find this amusing and sad.  Yup we can make ANY inference we want ... Nothing wrong with that you say.  So what if it's wrong!  No consequence to that... we just fix its wrong.  Fortunately, most people are not so reckless.... and actually are concerned about making Accurate Inferences if they do make them!  Particular when it could have serious consequences to ones relationship or impact on another person's life. 


I haven't made any inferences that would affect anyone's life.  Further, I haven't made any inferences that are groundless.  I have made an inference based on facts presented by an acknowledged, reliable news source. 

It would be reckless of me to say that..."The woman knew the man was a known sex offender."

Although the article states he was, there is no evidence to support that she knew this.

The article, repeatedly, mentioned their meeting in a chatroom, that she sent the pictures to him, that she could have clicked the X at any time.

Agree to disagree with me, KoM, or give me further information that might change my opinion.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/4/2006 6:20:58 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Very well said.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/4/2006 6:41:15 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aleshaDreams

feastie, thanks for the contribution....... the actions of the individuals inexcusable, the characters however whom are we to say.  Dynamics of their lives, influences through the years that make them act and behave in the fashion they have, we have not a clue about besides what the defense and prosecution have decided to use as argument.  (hell I am not saying the actions are right).  A person on the street homeless, I experience many calling useless, a thorn to society, scum amounst a few character definitions.  Have we looked at why the person is on the street? For the most part people do not, rather attact the character of a person prior to having any knowledge.

What I seek clarification on is why we are so quick to judge the character of individuals we have little to no knowledge of?



Hello alesha,

Everyone differs.........For myself, I do not think I am qualified in ANY way to advise anyone at ALL......I refuse to advise.

The only situation that alters that slightly, is in regard to my sproglings.

I have to be ABLE to be an adequate advisor here, as I'm the care-giver, the more experienced and in authority... and as I have shared experiences, history and intimate knowledge, I can be fairly sure that any advice will be the best they can get. Even then.........I STILL rarely advise them...I give them options and opinions and discuss as long and as often as they wish, until they make their own choices.

The way people act may not be excusable ....but it can still be understandable.

Everything for me, is tempered by the knowledge that I am only the sum of my OWN life's experience.

It's possible to make an interim *judgement*, all the while bearing in mind the fact that much important, crucial information is absent.

Regards, agirl





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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Ponder Legitamacy - 7/5/2006 11:05:07 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie


I don't consider drawing an inference to be wrong in any way.  The inference may be incorrect, ....


I find this amusing and sad.  Yup we can make ANY inference we want ... Nothing wrong with that you say.  So what if it's wrong!  No consequence to that... we just fix its wrong.  Fortunately, most people are not so reckless.... and actually are concerned about making Accurate Inferences if they do make them!  Particular when it could have serious consequences to ones relationship or impact on another person's life. 


I haven't made any inferences that would affect anyone's life.  Further, I haven't made any inferences that are groundless.  I have made an inference based on facts presented by an acknowledged, reliable news source. 



The article is irrelevant... You made a statement that implys a universal applications of inferences that they are not wrong in anyway.  That they can be incorrect and that is still Ok...  But hell whats wrong with making slandering comments of another..... it's just an inference  nothing wrong with it right?.... so what if innocent people have had their lives negatively affected because of ones reckless assumptions and inferences.  Yes inferences can be reckless and particularly harmful... particularly when they are used without regard or consideration. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 37
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