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RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 9:29:41 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Well to me it *always* creates confusion, and it does to many others on the board. Would that not mean according to your rules you shouldn't use it?

The world would be a very boring and uninteresting place In Angels humble opinion if everyone understood everything to the same level. Confusion exists so that questions can be asked... so that we can learn more about the diversities around us. Third person speach isnt that strange... there are many books, poems, prose etc that do so throughout History... somepeople may just find such speach beautiful... one can read the King James Bible version... or shakespere etc and the language is not what everyone would understand but to study is to learn and if its what someone does or likes or is... then it just makes it just another facet of a beautifully cut gem...

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 21

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 9:32:47 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

what *is* being an object if not a method of humilating/dehumanizing?

Being 'objectified' isnt always about humiliation or dehumanising... Angel has seen it used in the context of worship and also on a different level, as a service.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 22

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 9:55:19 AM

stormiKnightBEAR

Posts: 306
Joined: 3/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

On the other hand I do realize people are into roleplaying..and the third person speech is just another role playing exercise. Except when it starts to damage self esteem when carried into the wrong circles.

This girl is the very first to say she does not understand ALL the aspects of role playing.
stormi does not understand what some term "online relationships". However, nor does
stormi have the right to put someone down for doing so.

If a person asked stormi (or anyone else for that matter).... what do you think of role play,
what do you think of this or that, they need to be prepared for the answer. Do it have to
be insulting? nope, just that this girl does not understand how roleplaying works and has
no desire to. stormi has enough problems as an adult without pretending to be a online slave,
child, goddess, cowgirl/indian princess, or whatever the case maybe. But it does not have to
mean it's damaging their self esteem or anyone else.

Personally, stormi thinks that for the most part, people in general use good judgement in
how and when they role play.

Besides..... there is always the possibility of walking away, remember that. Some abuse victims
never find the strength, but some do, and sometimes it just takes a little longer to get
your ducks in a row so they can leave, so have faith and quit judging.

stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 23

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 9:59:12 AM

stormiKnightBEAR

Posts: 306
Joined: 3/14/2004
Status: offline

Angel.
when this girl was ko'lared, during the ceremony was the
first time she'd used 3rd person. It was and still is stormi's
way of saying "Master, stormi knows this pleases you, she knows
she messes up sometimes, but above all she knows she is
Yours. This girl is Your property".

The smile on His face and the simple knowledge that He enjoys
it is worth everything to this girl.

It's also good when this girl's focus is off due to outside interference.
Speaking third person brings one's prespectives back into the frontline.

stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 24

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 10:14:09 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

thank u,stormi, for your post. the main thing that people seem to not realize is not the how and when it is done, but the why-- to please Master! it matters not if anyone else understands or accepts it. those folks that refuse to read posts or converse with a slave because of it are truly missing out on some great insight and it is their loss.
to be sure, we ALL butcher the english language in our conversations and posts, so what, is life some sort of english class and we will be graded on our correct punctuation & grammar? the only person's opinion on this slave's speech and writing that she gives a whit about is Master's. then again, this slave is not earning a buck writing back and forth online with someone---not that there is anything wrong with that---but this slave could see where it would be more lucrative to play to one's audience in a way most comfortable to the audience.

(in reply to stormiKnightBEAR)

Post #: 25

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 12:19:05 PM

stormiKnightBEAR

Posts: 306
Joined: 3/14/2004
Status: offline

Thank You MercnBeth,

It is our RIGHT to do what pleases our Masters.... the rest be damned.

BTW, this girl does enjoy both of ya'lls post <just had to butcher the language somehow>
LOL....

Ya'll have a great day and Happy Holidays!

stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 26

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 12:26:24 PM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Simply put it is a practice that has been used to submerge the self into a group identity.. or in the case of bdsm to submerge the slave into a headspace that requires them to make specific self aware choices in how they speak.. one would hope that would give them the minute so to think before they open their mouth. I find it interesting the that people who have a problem with third person speech are those people who have a problem with generally accepted bdsm practices such as calling a Dominant by their title or name.. "NO YOU MUST EARN MY RESPECT before I give it." or who think submission is a gift.. and think its ok to be rude because "hey your not my owner." People who are invested in their service with a sense of maturity generally dont give a rats ass what anyone else does.. because they are too busy focusing on what they are supposed be doing and making sure that what they do they do their best at..kinda keeps them busy .. perhaps people need to find something to do in their own life rather than question how anyone else runs their relationship.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 12:34:19 PM

rubytuesday

Posts: 180
Joined: 10/22/2004
Status: offline

One of the things I like about this board is the freedom of speech - the board isnt weighed down by lots of dos and donts and everyone can voice their opinions. It doesnt bother me what ever way people wish to talk be it 3rd person or W/we or whatever - i read what i want to because it interests me , its still English in whatever form and I can still understand them and Im happy that people feel comfortable using their own methods - acceptance of others differences would make the world a much nicer place to be. JMO of course

smiles
ruby

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

Post #: 28

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 1:17:56 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Actually everyone started pointing fingers when none were pointed in the first place.

I said, I could not handle it. I've actually read all of the replies. What I've read...at least in my understanding is people use 3rd person speech as a role playing exercise. Although they don't like to call it role playing that indeed is what it is.

We define role playing as.

role-play (rlpl)
v. role-·played, role-·play·ing, role-·plays
v. tr.
To assume or represent in a drama; act out: “Participants are encouraged to pass on leads about jobs... and to role-play interview situations with each other” (Hatfield MA Valley Advocate).

v. intr.
To assume or act out a particular role: “When I hire people I role-play with them... to see how they take pressure” (Peter Schrag).

Everyone, who responded said they turn it off when it is not deemed necessary. If it was not roleplaying you could not turn it off and on at will.

What I said was. If I were to indulge in it, I doubt I could turn it off. I have a habit of throwing myself into something head first. Is that judging? If you want to call it that, sure.
Do I enjoy reading posts in 3rd person speech. Not necessarily. I just usually don't read them. That is my choice. That is not everyone's choice. I don't expect people to follow me as if they had no minds of their own.
I think stormi put it the best of anyone who uses the 3rd person speech. She does because it puts her into perspective. If I understand her right, it makes her feel submissive.

Merc, you hit the nail on the head so to speak from where I was coming from.
People use it to please their Master. What I was saying is why would a Master want their submissive or slave to do that?
What if the slave is in a board meeting and for whatever reason (stress) slips up?

That was my question. It wasn't a slam at anyone it was a question.

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

Post #: 29

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 1:43:39 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

People use it to please their Master. What I was saying is why would a Master want their submissive or slave to do that?
What if the slave is in a board meeting and for whatever reason (stress) slips up?

This is something I'd like to know as well. Why does it make the dominant party happy? What does it do for you? -Why- does it please you?

I'm big on evaluating what attracts me to various pleasures, and I'm curious about the same things in others. What appeals to a dominant partner about 3rd person speach?

quote:

Sylverdawn

I find it interesting the that people who have a problem with third person speech are those people who have a problem with generally accepted bdsm practices such as calling a Dominant by their title or name.. "NO YOU MUST EARN MY RESPECT before I give it."...and think its ok to be rude because "hey your not my owner."

I think you're misrepresenting a lot of us who will not give titles to people other than our partners. I would argue that it is not generally accepted practice in all circles. Rather, it is practice in some, and in some online communities.

I call everyone by their handle, for the most part, as that's what they've chosen, though I've been known on occation to drop the "master" part of some titles.

Why shouldn't respect be earned? It doesn't mean I'm any less polite to anyone. That's just plain bad manners. However, deference/respect isn't something I automatically give to whomever slaps "master" in front of their names. Realtime is a different story, of course.

To imply that those of us who dislike third person speach or who will not call others sir/ma'am are rude, and out of synch with "the BDSM community" isn't really accurate, IMHO.

Too...people seem to have different deffinitions of "rude." To some, it is rude for a submissive person to disagree with a dominant person, period. To some, it is rude to not observe the T/they capping convention. Too me, rudeness is being impolite to anyone. I work hard not to do this, though occationally I screw up.

quote:

People who are invested in their service with a sense of maturity generally dont give a rats ass what anyone else does.. because they are too busy focusing on what they are supposed be doing and making sure that what they do they do their best at..kinda keeps them busy .. perhaps people need to find something to do in their own life rather than question how anyone else runs their relationship.

I've found that a lot of people like to invovle themselves in other's affairs not matter how serious their relationship/commitment to service is. One might note that there are -many- threads involving "proper" behavior where individuals express their beliefs as to how others should behave. (Solicited advice, of course, this isn't a criticism) I'd assert that many of those people are very focused, but like to invovle themselves in other's lives too. Hence participation on the message boards.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 30

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 2:00:53 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

the main thing that people seem to not realize is not the how and when it is done, but the why-- to please Master!

And that's where it begins and ends. No further explanation should be necessary after that point.

quote:

to be sure, we ALL butcher the english language in our conversations and posts,

No, we don't all butcher the english language in our conversations and posts.

quote:

so what, is life some sort of english class and we will be graded on our correct punctuation & grammar?

For better or worse, yes, it is. People will make relatively quick judgements, conscious or unconscious, about an individual based on how they write. As with any first impression, it is very hard to alter after the fact.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 31

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 3:22:52 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

This is something I'd like to know as well. Why does it make the dominant party happy? What does it do for you? -Why- does it please you?

GREAT question!

Speaking exclusively for Merc as it relates to beth, I employ 3rd person speech because I know it takes an effort. I appreciate that effort. I respect that effort. In a 24/7 relationship it isn't 24/7 sex or sessions. But, with the exception of sleep, it is 24/7 conversation, interaction, and communication. Third person speech is a constant reminder and reinforcement for both parties of your relationship. It's mentally empowering, and conversely, beth tells me it's sub-space provoking.

Hope that provides the insight you were seeking.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 32

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 3:47:10 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Speaking exclusively for Merc as it relates to beth, I employ 3rd person speech because I know it takes an effort. I appreciate that effort. I respect that effort. In a 24/7 relationship it isn't 24/7 sex or sessions. But, with the exception of sleep, it is 24/7 conversation, interaction, and communication. Third person speech is a constant reminder and reinforcement for both parties of your relationship. It's mentally empowering, and conversely, beth tells me it's sub-space provoking.

Hope that provides the insight you were seeking.

That makes perfect sense to me. Thank you.

Anyway, as other people have said -I- don't have to like it, and I'll probably continue to find it hard to read, but I like to understand even those thigns I don't like--at least as much as I can.

Thank you.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 33

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 4:28:56 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

What I've read...at least in my understanding is people use 3rd person speech as a role playing exercise

actually sub4hire you need to read WAYYYYYYYYY MORE......

roleplay is sumthing
not usually done in
life or sumthing
done to practice that
which is not usually
done or aquired
and needs practice
with for a temporary use
be it in real life or online.

My slaves speak in third
person in their natural
living and do not * roleplay*
their speach. It is but one
part of whom they strive
to be everyday.
your right sub4hire you would
fail miserably in your tempt
to roleplay such.
Now that you have generalized
all of Us into your opinion of that
which you your self do not use
I to have included you in such
being since Im quite sure that I
am just as Vane as you in the
assumption that I know everything
about everyone elses posessions
and way their lifes and living are applyed. JMO

Im currious sffffffgirl what your opinion is of My self whom rags, beats, cuts, tears, and transposes the american language as well as the english one at My every waking moment?
And even further yet.......... What makes you think that I or anyone else would give a rats
ass as to what anyones opinion of Our selfs and how We use language is really......so Vane!
Do you think gurl that I am a Edumacated Fool or a Uneducated genius? And what value does
either thought have in representation of Our ALTERNATE LIFESTYLE? JMO

quote:

This is something I'd like to know as well. Why does it make the dominant party happy? What does it do for you? -Why- does it please you?

Merc answered perfectly, I couldent have said it better...........

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 34

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 5:07:47 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dread,
As you know we've been down this same road many times before. I need to read more because I chose to read what other's who replied were saying. Then based an assumption by your own definition.

Hmm....now I wonder how that seems so oddly familiar to me?
dreads definition:
roleplay is sumthing
not usually done in
life or sumthing
done to practice that
which is not usually
done or aquired
and needs practice
with for a temporary use
be it in real life or online.

Scroll back up to the top, it is mercnand beth who first say.
there have been a few isolated occasions that Master has deemed the use of third person speech inappropriate. business dinners that were casual enough to include "spouses and significant others" and get togethers with certain relatives that are unaware of our M/s relationship. other than that it is expected at all times, private or public.

Then the very next post we come to Ileana who says.
In this girls case her Lord wants her to post in third person but in RL she is to talk regular sence she has a daughter that we wish not to curupted yet.( lol)

The next one to mtsilence who then adds.
This girl uses 3rd person only at High Protocol Functions. This being the only time her Lord feels it is necessary. The rest of the time, I am I and can say so and I can address issues as an equal in rights, if not in status. I have a very loving Lord.

To cariad, who then says it is more real life than roleplaying to her. Talks 3rd person generally...although here are her words.
this slave is to speak third person in her r/l life unless there is vanilla company present, she's at work, or any time she feels someO/one may put off by it.

To angel who seems to be much like cariad...but here are her words.

Angel speaks in the 3rd person within the 'realtime' perspective and also speaks 1st person. One has learnt that people do tend to feel uncomfortable when hearing the 3rd person conversations and if a person is completely put off by such and it is a person I respect, then I will converse in the way they lead.

So, would'nt role play be doing something not done all of the time? By your own definition. You see, I really had no opinion on this until people started talking about it and I actually read the replies.

As I have already stated I think Stormi put it best when she said.
It's also good when this girl's focus is off due to outside interference.
Speaking third person brings one's prespectives back into the frontline.

To me that said more than everyone else. I feel it was said from the heart and it made perfect sense. Not that everyone else didn't make sense. It was just said so beautifully and simple.

damn me for actually reading.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 35

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 5:15:53 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

LOL
Ohhhh gloria
you are way
to damn easy
to erg!

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 36

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 6:14:04 PM

Nvernilla

Posts: 303
Joined: 10/1/2004
Status: offline

Well I took 3rd person speech as an indicator that the slave was gorean since that is how the books are. I have seen some who use it RT but not many.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 37

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 6:27:40 PM

Guest

quote:

Well I took 3rd person speech as an indicator that the slave was gorean since that is how the books are.

Strange, that isn't how the Gor books I read were (granted I did miss one or two and had to really force myself through most of them since his writting style is about 3rd grade ability). Yes, there were instances of 3rd person speach. But not only were they isolated instances, the slave in question was back to using more normal speech by the turn of the page.

(in reply to Nvernilla)

Post #: 38

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 7:12:32 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

My slaves were speaking in third person BEFOR the first GOR book was ever written. My Parents slaves spoke in third person and My Gran parents slaves spoke in thirdperson as well as far back as I can remember growin up.

LOL

amazing~ folks misconseptions on consensual slaverys beginnings....

(in reply to Guest)

Post #: 39

RE: 3rd person speach. Not a rant, a question - 11/22/2004 7:49:59 PM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

and your entitled to your opinion... as I am mine.. am not going to argue what is or what isnt.. its a point of view ... from my observation.. I can only speak to that..

There is a difference between solicited requests for help in my opinion and fingerpointing judgemental.. YOU DONT DO it right.. Am I sinless? absolutely not.. but I stand by the statement that if people would spend more time worrying about thier own house being in order they wouldnt be so worried about the mess next door..

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 11/22/2004 7:54:35 PM >

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 40

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