A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales.

A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (Full Version)

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MercTech -> A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/23/2013 12:41:27 PM)
Just reporting some experience with FFL sale documentation. A month ago, my uncle's house was broken into while he was out of town visiting his daughter. A computer, television, and his old work pistol were taken, among other things. Two days ago, my uncle received his pistol back from the local ATF office. It was taken off a 17 year old kid trying to trade the .38 caliber revolver for an automatic at a gun show. The kid did a plea bargain and admitted guilty to possession of stolen property in exchange for identifying the persons he received the gun from. Hopefully the persons who have been doing lunch time house breaking will finally be caught. Yesterday I had a look at the paperwork my uncle received when the ATF returned his pistol. The gun was manufactured in 1979. It was sold to a local gun shop in 1980. It was sold to my uncle in 1981. It came back to him because when they gun shop closed, the owner turned all of his records over to the ATF and they migrated into their computer database. If I went down to a gun shop today and bought a firearm: My ID would be checked and my info phoned in for a background check. The answer on my eligibility to buy a firearm would come back either over the phone or via computer in a few minutes. The FFL paperwork would be completed and signed by myself and the seller. The seller keeps the complete paperwork in his files for ATF inspection should they request. The hard copy information on which weapon I bought stays with the seller. Now, some states have further requirements such as registering ownership of a firearm with local law enforcement and even providing a ballistics sample of the firearm. My state only implements the federal requirement on records. The ATF and FBI have wanted to maintain a computer database on ALL gun sales for several years. The funding to do so and the legislation making such legal has yet to pass Congress. I thought I'd toss out this out as an advantageous effect of gun sales tracking and see if we can get some opinions tossing around about background checks for gun sales and who should get access to the records.

EdBowie -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/23/2013 3:19:27 PM)
I have no overwhelming problem with screening out convicts, those adjudicated a danger, and those below a certain age from being able to walk into a store and walk right out with a weapon. My only real caveat with the rest of us registering our ownership, is that in certain cities the media has seized upon the 'clever' idea of using the FOIA to get public gun records, and they've listed the names and addresses (minus their own of course)... sort of a 'break into this house when there's no one home' shopping list. Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz.

sloguy02246 -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/23/2013 7:02:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz. Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well.

BamaD -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/23/2013 7:17:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz. Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well. When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business?

tj444 -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/23/2013 8:21:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz. Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well. When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business? oh, stolen guns wont put gun manufacturers out of business (gun theft has been happening since guns were first invented) but 3D printers might some time in the future (perhaps sooner than people think).. "Texas company makes metal gun with 3-D printer" http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/tech/innovation/3d-printed-metal-gun/

OsideGirl -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/23/2013 8:42:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I have no overwhelming problem with screening out convicts, those adjudicated a danger, and those below a certain age from being able to walk into a store and walk right out with a weapon. Agreed. I was perfectly happy to submit to a background check when I bought my pistols. I do wish the authorities were more proactive about confiscating weapons from those that have been under 5150 holds, though.

BamaD -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/23/2013 9:24:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I have no overwhelming problem with screening out convicts, those adjudicated a danger, and those below a certain age from being able to walk into a store and walk right out with a weapon. Agreed. I was perfectly happy to submit to a background check when I bought my pistols. I do wish the authorities were more proactive about confiscating weapons from those that have been under 5150 holds, though. And prosecute those who are ineligible and try to buy anyway.

BamaD -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/23/2013 9:32:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz. Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well. When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business? oh, stolen guns wont put gun manufacturers out of business (gun theft has been happening since guns were first invented) but 3D printers might some time in the future (perhaps sooner than people think).. "Texas company makes metal gun with 3-D printer" http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/tech/innovation/3d-printed-metal-gun/ Your right I should have said an excuse to attack gun ownership

joether -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/24/2013 2:55:38 AM)
I believe the moderators will agree with me that this thread belongs in the : unmoderated gun thread. And most if not all of you know that thread exists. Good try with trying to side-step the nature of this thread....

EdBowie -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/24/2013 6:48:49 AM)
Who says this thread isn't moderated? Not everyone wants to wade through all the name calling, and 'unmoderated' doesn't mean 'omnibus'.

VideoAdminChi -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/24/2013 6:55:06 AM)
While part of the purpose of the unmoderated Zimmerman thread was to control the proliferation of Zimmerman threads, the unmoderated gun thread's purpose is simply to have an unmoderated thread. In other words, this thread may continue.

sloguy02246 -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/24/2013 7:44:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz. Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well. When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business? Respectfully, that wasn't the point of my post. The post I was commenting about stated that stolen weapons could increase the revenue stream of various media outlets. My point was that in addition to that, if someone's weapon was stolen, presumably the person who suffered the loss would need to purchase another weapon, thereby increasing the revenue stream of gun manufacturers. I was not addressing any issue of gun manufacturing or gun ownership - only that the loss of a weapon would likely result in the purchase of another.

EdBowie -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/24/2013 5:04:01 PM)
Looking at the bigger picture... Trying to find ways to lower the body count that aren't magical thinking, less stolen guns would seem to be good for society. quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz. Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well. When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business? Respectfully, that wasn't the point of my post. The post I was commenting about stated that stolen weapons could increase the revenue stream of various media outlets. My point was that in addition to that, if someone's weapon was stolen, presumably the person who suffered the loss would need to purchase another weapon, thereby increasing the revenue stream of gun manufacturers. I was not addressing any issue of gun manufacturing or gun ownership - only that the loss of a weapon would likely result in the purchase of another.

BamaD -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/24/2013 5:04:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Of course I'm sure that we all understand that they have sagging profit margins to boost, and the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the journo biz. Upon some reflection, I think you could have added that the more stolen guns out there, the better it is for the gun manufacturers as well. When stolen guns provide an excuse to put them out of business? Respectfully, that wasn't the point of my post. The post I was commenting about stated that stolen weapons could increase the revenue stream of various media outlets. My point was that in addition to that, if someone's weapon was stolen, presumably the person who suffered the loss would need to purchase another weapon, thereby increasing the revenue stream of gun manufacturers. I was not addressing any issue of gun manufacturing or gun ownership - only that the loss of a weapon would likely result in the purchase of another. And I was merely pointing out that stolen guns used in crimes are one excuse anti gunners use to attack gn ownership.

EdBowie -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/24/2013 5:12:13 PM)
Just speaking for myself, I'd be just fine if this thread didn't turn into yet another endless pooh flinging game of dueling 'pro-gun' vs. 'anti-gun' soundbites. The OP has brought up a useful and pragmatic notion, that unless one is wealthy enough to afford to replace stolen weapons on a whim, there is some possible advantage to law enforcement being able to get your property back to you.

BamaD -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/25/2013 11:13:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Just speaking for myself, I'd be just fine if this thread didn't turn into yet another endless pooh flinging game of dueling 'pro-gun' vs. 'anti-gun' soundbites. The OP has brought up a useful and pragmatic notion, that unless one is wealthy enough to afford to replace stolen weapons on a whim, there is some possible advantage to law enforcement being able to get your property back to you. Here in Alabama you can register your firearms with the Sheriff to be used only in case of theft. I prefer keeping a record of serial numbers and using that if a gun were stolen. If you give the cops the serial numbers of any guns stolen that should give you the same chance of getting them back without big brother watching you.

mnottertail -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/25/2013 11:18:28 AM)
nope big brother in the guise of any cops, if they have them and have them stolen have to give those serials to ATF.

BamaD -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/25/2013 11:48:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail nope big brother in the guise of any cops, if they have them and have them stolen have to give those serials to ATF. Which is why I suggested keeping your own records.

mnottertail -> RE: A stolen gun..... FFL checks on gun sales. (11/25/2013 11:52:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail nope big brother in the guise of any cops, if they have them and have them stolen have to give those serials to ATF. Which is why I suggested keeping your own records. If you give the cops the serial numbers of any guns stolen that should give you the same chance of getting them back without big brother watching you. ^^^^^^^^^^^hence my confusion, not clarity insofar as I am able to detect.

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