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slvemike4u -> Newtown (11/26/2013 10:16:03 AM)
The State report has been released,this marks the official closing of the case. The one question not answered by this report is why this young man ,deeply troubled and highly withdrawn into his own dark world, had such easy access to multiple weapons. Hell his mother,the legal owner of all of those weapons even had a check which she intended to use to buy Adam his very own pistol. If she is any indication of a "responsible gun owner" than I am running out now and buying me some weapons.

joether -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 12:12:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u The State report has been released,this marks the official closing of the case. The one question not answered by this report is why this young man ,deeply troubled and highly withdrawn into his own dark world, had such easy access to multiple weapons. Hell his mother,the legal owner of all of those weapons even had a check which she intended to use to buy Adam his very own pistol. If she is any indication of a "responsible gun owner" than I am running out now and buying me some weapons. If she was the definition of the average 'responsible gun owner' I think its safe to say more gun control is in order in the near future. Your kid has problems handling social life; lets give him the means to remove it violently and quickly! The really sad part is the mother purchased those guns in the hopes it would help her child more than it would harm. That proved to be fatally wrong on her part! Given the human condition, I suppose its only a matter of time before the next massive school shooting in America. An we'll debate the whole thing to death. And like the rest of America, we'll just drop it by the wayside and move on to the next political problem (not solving that one either).

RottenJohnny -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 4:23:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether If she was the definition of the average 'responsible gun owner'... Except that she's not the definition of the "average responsible gun owner".

deathtothepixies -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 5:01:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: joether If she was the definition of the average 'responsible gun owner'... Except that she's not the definition of the "average responsible gun owner". but she is legally able to go out and buy as many guns as she wants to, doesn't matter whether anyone here thinks she is responsible enough, she has the right to go and get as many guns as she wants......enjoy!

angelikaJ -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 5:05:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: joether If she was the definition of the average 'responsible gun owner'... Except that she's not the definition of the "average responsible gun owner". but she is legally able to go out and buy as many guns as she wants to, doesn't matter whether anyone here thinks she is responsible enough, she has the right to go and get as many guns as she wants......enjoy! I am pretty certain that she doesn't have ANY rights to buy ANY guns now. I hate to be flippant on anything having to do with Newtown.

deathtothepixies -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 5:07:57 PM)
substitute is for was, the point stands. TY aJ

RottenJohnny -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 8:47:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: joether If she was the definition of the average 'responsible gun owner'... Except that she's not the definition of the "average responsible gun owner". but she is legally able to go out and buy as many guns as she wants to, doesn't matter whether anyone here thinks she is responsible enough, she has the right to go and get as many guns as she wants......enjoy! And if somebody decides to drive one of several cars they own down the sidewalk, slaying everyone in their path, are you going to consider them the "average responsible car owner"? The fact that she could buy all the guns she wanted doesn't automatically make her the "average responsible gun owner" any more than the idiot driving down the sidewalk is the "average responsible car owner".....enjoy!

MsMJAY -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 8:57:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: joether If she was the definition of the average 'responsible gun owner'... Except that she's not the definition of the "average responsible gun owner". but she is legally able to go out and buy as many guns as she wants to, doesn't matter whether anyone here thinks she is responsible enough, she has the right to go and get as many guns as she wants......enjoy! And if somebody decides to drive one of several cars they own down the sidewalk, slaying everyone in their path, are you going to consider them the "average responsible car owner"? The fact that she could buy all the guns she wanted doesn't automatically make her the "average responsible gun owner" any more than the idiot driving down the sidewalk is the "average responsible car owner".....enjoy! The "average responsible car owner" had to get a vehicle registration with his name and address in a system connected to that car. That car has to pass an inspection. He or she also had to present identification to the DMV. He or she also must pass a written test proving he knows the laws regarding an automobile and a physical test to prove he can properly use those laws while operating the vehicle. All of that just to obtain a license that has to be renewed every few years. The only thing most gun control advocates want is the same requirements for guns that we have for cars.

lovmuffin -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 9:05:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY The only thing most gun control advocates want is the same requirements for guns that we have for cars. And you really think that would make or would have made some sort of difference ?

MsMJAY -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 9:28:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY The only thing most gun control advocates want is the same requirements for guns that we have for cars. And you really think that would make or would have made some sort of difference ? Yes. Yes I do. Handing out guns with little or no restrictions sure has not made a difference. Mandatory education, testing, background checks and registration for all guns will ensure that gun owners are, to some extent, responsible. Bear in mind that the vast majority of guns used in mass shootings were legally purchased. There should be some requirements to ensure that that owners know how to safely and intelligently operate and store the gun(s) they purchase.

EdBowie -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 9:32:21 PM)
Why do people keep repeating this? There is no state in the union where you have to do any of that beyond registering the transaction, in order to just own a car, and keep it inside your garage. Same as purchasing a gun and keeping it inside your house. Only if you want to take it out on the public roads, do you need insurance, testing, inspections, license to operate, etc. Wouldn't it simply be easier to make the point logically, instead of expecting people to fall for things that aren't so? Just state that you propose a bunch of extra requirements on simple gun ownership that do not exist for simple car ownership, and then explain the benefits of those extra requirements. What is the benefit to have a state issued license to operate a firearm on your own property? Or the equivalent of tags? quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY The "average responsible car owner" had to get a vehicle registration with his name and address in a system connected to that car. That car has to pass an inspection. He or she also had to present identification to the DMV. He or she also must pass a written test proving he knows the laws regarding an automobile and a physical test to prove he can properly use those laws while operating the vehicle. All of that just to obtain a license that has to be renewed every few years. The only thing most gun control advocates want is the same requirements for guns that we have for cars.

MsMJAY -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 9:46:08 PM)
Then require registration for gun owners who want to just keep a gun in their house. (or garage) Require license, insurance (I forgot that one-thanks), testing and such for gun owners who want to actually use or operate their gun. See? I am flexible. Same as a car. quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Why do people keep repeating this? There is no state in the union where you have to do any of that beyond registering the transaction, in order to just own a car, and keep it inside your garage. Same as purchasing a gun and keeping it inside your house. Only if you want to take it out on the public roads, do you need insurance, testing, inspections, license to operate, etc. Wouldn't it simply be easier to make the point logically, instead of expecting people to fall for things that aren't so? Just state that you propose a bunch of extra requirements on simple gun ownership that do not exist for simple car ownership, and then explain the benefits of those extra requirements. What is the benefit to have a state issued license to operate a firearm on your own property? Or the equivalent of tags? quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY The "average responsible car owner" had to get a vehicle registration with his name and address in a system connected to that car. That car has to pass an inspection. He or she also had to present identification to the DMV. He or she also must pass a written test proving he knows the laws regarding an automobile and a physical test to prove he can properly use those laws while operating the vehicle. All of that just to obtain a license that has to be renewed every few years. The only thing most gun control advocates want is the same requirements for guns that we have for cars.

RottenJohnny -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 9:54:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY The "average responsible car owner" had to get a vehicle registration with his name and address in a system connected to that car. That car has to pass an inspection. He or she also had to present identification to the DMV. He or she also must pass a written test proving he knows the laws regarding an automobile and a physical test to prove he can properly use those laws while operating the vehicle. All of that just to obtain a license that has to be renewed every few years. I can't speak for what she was required to do to purchase her guns but I had to do all those things when I bought mine. I had to register my name, I had to have a sheriff's deputy inspect my gun, I got fingerprinted, I had to show that I understood how the gun functioned and that I could properly disassemble and reassemble it. If I decided to get my Concealed Carry permit, I'd also have to take self-defense classes run by the Sheriff's Dept.

mussorgsky -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 9:57:19 PM)
Have you at all studied the laws and just how much they vary from state to state? As much as I love the idea that you can just buy a gun off the shelf without any hassle, that doesn't even start to address the federal law and paperwork (which includes a background check) or the laws of individual states (waiting periods, licensing requirements, and a wide variety of other restrictions). Also, why should people even have to register their cars? And forcing insurance for anything is just a sweetheart deal for the insurance company. Not that they've ever gotten such deals before, no, certainly not with healthcare, vehicles, and certain businesses. But the real question is why should we allow any infringements on specifically enumerated rights within the Constitution? We don't require licenses or insurance for buying books, newspapers, for voting, before allowing someone to pray or otherwise enjoy their religion, nor do we make them apply for the rights under the Fourth, Fifth, or Sixth Amendments. So what makes guns a special case? And if you're prepared to let the government shred/bypass the Constitution on this one, what will stop them from doing it to a right that you do care about?

MsMJAY -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 10:09:07 PM)
I just dropped by the gun shop, picked out one and came back after the background check was done. Nothing more. quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY The "average responsible car owner" had to get a vehicle registration with his name and address in a system connected to that car. That car has to pass an inspection. He or she also had to present identification to the DMV. He or she also must pass a written test proving he knows the laws regarding an automobile and a physical test to prove he can properly use those laws while operating the vehicle. All of that just to obtain a license that has to be renewed every few years. I can't speak for what she was required to do to purchase her guns but I had to do all those things when I bought mine. I had to register my name, I had to have a sheriff's deputy inspect my gun, I got fingerprinted, I had to show that I understood how the gun functioned and that I could properly disassemble and reassemble it. If I decided to get my Concealed Carry permit, I'd also have to take self-defense classes run by the Sheriff's Dept.

TheHeretic -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 10:20:51 PM)
FR "Responsible" is such a subjective term. I saw a headline today that George Zimmerman had a "large amount of ammunition" to go with the five guns found in the house when he was arrested on the DV accusation. Given that it is utterly impossible for him to be paranoid, I'd expect the dude to be loaded for bear. It was 100 rounds. A box for each of the pistols, maybe? That's a shooting date at the local indoor range. Beyond the sensationalistic ignorance of such a headline, how do we talk about what is responsible, when the people jumping up and down about the whole right to bear arms being wrong don't even know enough about guns to know what is normal, much less comprehend responsible and irresponsible? The Newtown headlines were saying they couldn't find a motive. How about, he was batshit insane, and his mother was terminally stupid?

MsMJAY -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 10:22:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mussorgsky Have you at all studied the laws and just how much they vary from state to state? As much as I love the idea that you can just buy a gun off the shelf without any hassle, that doesn't even start to address the federal law and paperwork (which includes a background check) or the laws of individual states (waiting periods, licensing requirements, and a wide variety of other restrictions). Also, why should people even have to register their cars? And forcing insurance for anything is just a sweetheart deal for the insurance company. Not that they've ever gotten such deals before, no, certainly not with healthcare, vehicles, and certain businesses. But the real question is why should we allow any infringements on specifically enumerated rights within the Constitution? We don't require licenses or insurance for buying books, newspapers, for voting, before allowing someone to pray or otherwise enjoy their religion, nor do we make them apply for the rights under the Fourth, Fifth, or Sixth Amendments. So what makes guns a special case? And if you're prepared to let the government shred/bypass the Constitution on this one, what will stop them from doing it to a right that you do care about? Yes I have studied the laws and I am well aware of how much they vary state to state and federally. Trust me- the first time I see sharp increase in the number of people killed by a newspaper I will begin advocating restrictions on those also. Why should we allow restrictions? 1) Because the right to swing your fist ends where another man's nose begins. Because the constitution has the infringement written into it. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Because every right we has carries with it responsibilities and exceptions; especially where lives are at stake. And this is a right that I care very much about. I a, and have been a gun owner for my entire adult life.

EdBowie -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 10:34:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY quote: ORIGINAL: mussorgsky Have you at all studied the laws and just how much they vary from state to state? As much as I love the idea that you can just buy a gun off the shelf without any hassle, that doesn't even start to address the federal law and paperwork (which includes a background check) or the laws of individual states (waiting periods, licensing requirements, and a wide variety of other restrictions). Also, why should people even have to register their cars? And forcing insurance for anything is just a sweetheart deal for the insurance company. Not that they've ever gotten such deals before, no, certainly not with healthcare, vehicles, and certain businesses. But the real question is why should we allow any infringements on specifically enumerated rights within the Constitution? We don't require licenses or insurance for buying books, newspapers, for voting, before allowing someone to pray or otherwise enjoy their religion, nor do we make them apply for the rights under the Fourth, Fifth, or Sixth Amendments. So what makes guns a special case? And if you're prepared to let the government shred/bypass the Constitution on this one, what will stop them from doing it to a right that you do care about? Yes I have studied the laws and I am well aware of how much they vary state to state and federally. Trust me- the first time I see sharp increase in the number of people killed by a newspaper I will begin advocating restrictions on those also. Why should we allow restrictions? 1) Because the right to swing your fist ends where another man's nose begins. Because the constitution has the infringement written into it. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Because every right we has carries with it responsibilities and exceptions; especially where lives are at stake. And this is a right that I care very much about. I a, and have been a gun owner for my entire adult life. You've 'studied the laws', and yet you don't know that the US Supreme Court debunked that 'well regulated militia' as a requirement notion years ago?

TheHeretic -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 10:34:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY Then require registration for gun owners who want to just keep a gun in their house. (or garage) And what does that actually accomplish, in the way of preventing the use of firearms in crimes? Some might easily believe that's just a convenient excuse to get a list together.

EdBowie -> RE: Newtown (11/26/2013 10:37:20 PM)
So other than insurance, what is the difference between that and what is required now? quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY Then require registration for gun owners who want to just keep a gun in their house. (or garage) Require license, insurance (I forgot that one-thanks), testing and such for gun owners who want to actually use or operate their gun. See? I am flexible. Same as a car. quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Why do people keep repeating this? There is no state in the union where you have to do any of that beyond registering the transaction, in order to just own a car, and keep it inside your garage. Same as purchasing a gun and keeping it inside your house. Only if you want to take it out on the public roads, do you need insurance, testing, inspections, license to operate, etc. Wouldn't it simply be easier to make the point logically, instead of expecting people to fall for things that aren't so? Just state that you propose a bunch of extra requirements on simple gun ownership that do not exist for simple car ownership, and then explain the benefits of those extra requirements. What is the benefit to have a state issued license to operate a firearm on your own property? Or the equivalent of tags? quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY The "average responsible car owner" had to get a vehicle registration with his name and address in a system connected to that car. That car has to pass an inspection. He or she also had to present identification to the DMV. He or she also must pass a written test proving he knows the laws regarding an automobile and a physical test to prove he can properly use those laws while operating the vehicle. All of that just to obtain a license that has to be renewed every few years. The only thing most gun control advocates want is the same requirements for guns that we have for cars.

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