RE: Minimum wage in america (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 7:21:41 AM)

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jlf1961 -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 7:31:04 AM)

Alright, taking the average cost of living per month for a household of 2 adults, 2 children, at $4886 a month, if only one parent is working, that worker has to make $30.54 per hour.

If you take the high end of the poverty level income, that is $23,550 a year, or $1962.50 a month, or $12.26 an hour for one working member of the family.

And that is living in a basic apartment, and still qualifies for food stamps and other assistance.

So both parents have to work at $7.25 an hour, and one really has to have a second part time job at least, to hit that mark for the year.

Now, someone want to tell me how the hell you are supposed to live on $7.25 an hour?



mnottertail -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 7:34:39 AM)

quote:


If you take the high end of the poverty level income, that is $23,550 a year, or $1962.50 a month, or $12.26
an hour for one working member of the family.


And the lie is that Wal-Mart pays 12.81 an hour, so if everyone worked for walmart, what a rich nation we would be (they are already our largest employer, are they not?

So a $10 dollar an hour minimum wage law would not affect them in the least, they pay far more than that.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 8:39:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Alright, taking the average cost of living per month for a household of 2 adults, 2 children, at $4886 a month...

When I was living in the US, disregarding shit like healthcare, I found it quite a bit cheaper to actually live (moneywise) than it is over here.
Gas is a giveaway price compared to our prices.
Take-outs cost a third of ours with at least double the portion size for the same product (MacD's, BK, Pizza Hut, etc).
All-you-can-eat places that cost less than what we pay for a Big Mac and fries.
Doggy bags are common over there to eat stuff later. Over here you very rarely get them anywhere.
Apartments that cost half of ours for something 3x the size.
Things like shoes and clothing half the price of ours or less.

My gross income is just about £7,020 per year - that's roughly $11,230pa or $936pm.
And that's for 4 of us - 2 adults and 2 teenage kids to live on.

I'm sure there are many in the US worse off than we are.
So where does the $4,886pm cost come from jlf??



jlf1961 -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 8:45:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Alright, taking the average cost of living per month for a household of 2 adults, 2 children, at $4886 a month...

When I was living in the US, disregarding shit like healthcare, I found it quite a bit cheaper to actually live (moneywise) than it is over here.
Gas is a giveaway price compared to our prices.
Take-outs cost a third of ours with at least double the portion size for the same product (MacD's, BK, Pizza Hut, etc).
All-you-can-eat places that cost less than what we pay for a Big Mac and fries.
Doggy bags are common over there to eat stuff later. Over here you very rarely get them anywhere.
Apartments that cost half of ours for something 3x the size.
Things like shoes and clothing half the price of ours or less.

My gross income is just about £7,020 per year - that's roughly $11,230pa or $936pm.
And that's for 4 of us - 2 adults and 2 teenage kids to live on.

I'm sure there are many in the US worse off than we are.
So where does the $4,886pm cost come from jlf??




US government statistics,



DesideriScuri -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 2:04:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Alright, taking the average cost of living per month for a household of 2 adults, 2 children, at $4886 a month, if only one parent is working, that worker has to make $30.54 per hour.
If you take the high end of the poverty level income, that is $23,550 a year, or $1962.50 a month, or $12.26 an hour for one working member of the family.
And that is living in a basic apartment, and still qualifies for food stamps and other assistance.
So both parents have to work at $7.25 an hour, and one really has to have a second part time job at least, to hit that mark for the year.
Now, someone want to tell me how the hell you are supposed to live on $7.25 an hour?


BLS Tables

Table 1

75.276M hourly wage earners in 2012

3.55M hourly wage earners (~4.7%) worked for wages at or below the Federal minimum ($7.25/hr.)

Of those 3.55M, 1.984M (~55.9%) made less than the Federal minimum wage.

Of those 3.55M, 0.854M were 16 - 19 years old (~24.1%)

Of those 3.55M, 1.261M (35.5%) were Full-Time workers (54.745M hourly workers (72.7% of all hourly wage workers) work Full-Time; 2.3% of all Full Time Hourly workers are paid at or below Federal Minimum wage)

Table 8

Of the 3.55M hourly paid workers paid at or below Federal minimum wages in 2012, 2.314M (65.2%) were never married.

0.779M (21.9%) were married with the spouses present

The minimum wage isn't, wasn't, and never has been, intended to be the primary wage that supports a family.

The numbers for people paid below minimum wage are heavily concentrated in service occupations (Table 4; 57.8% of all paid below Federal Minimum wage), especially food prep and service related occupations (ie. waitstaff). These occupations tend to get tips, which are not included in these numbers, as they are not hourly wages.







mnottertail -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 2:08:51 PM)

The other 40% raising families in other than service jobs, and below or at minimum wage.

While it may not intend to raise families, it is certainly what many families are raised on if we look at the numbers the other way as well.



papassion -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 3:05:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so where do you suppose al these mcdonalds workers get retraining, what in, where? how much, how long? what do they live on while they work and retrain?


These are the questions people should have asked themselves before they woke up in their 30's or 40's with nothing but memories of good times of instant gratification.



Lucylastic -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 3:12:29 PM)

oh you think it only happens because people didnt think back in their teens? really???
so where do you suppose al these mcdonalds workers get retraining, what in, where? how much, how long? what do they live on while they work and retrain?



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/13/2013 3:22:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Alright, taking the average cost of living per month for a household of 2 adults, 2 children, at $4886 a month, if only one parent is working, that worker has to make $30.54 per hour.

If you take the high end of the poverty level income, that is $23,550 a year, or $1962.50 a month, or $12.26 an hour for one working member of the family.

And that is living in a basic apartment, and still qualifies for food stamps and other assistance.

So both parents have to work at $7.25 an hour, and one really has to have a second part time job at least, to hit that mark for the year.

Now, someone want to tell me how the hell you are supposed to live on $7.25 an hour?


Here's all the answers:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Amy+Dacyzyn&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a



mnottertail -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/14/2013 6:27:35 AM)

LOLOLOLOL.  Yeah, simplistic jingos for simpletons.



graceadieu -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/14/2013 12:29:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so where do you suppose al these mcdonalds workers get retraining, what in, where? how much, how long? what do they live on while they work and retrain?


These are the questions people should have asked themselves before they woke up in their 30's or 40's with nothing but memories of good times of instant gratification.


The instant gratification of working at McDonald's? Seriously?



graceadieu -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/14/2013 12:32:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Actually, it's $12.81 for all full-time hourly workers. Salaried workers and part-timer workers aren't included in that calculation.

http://corporate.walmart.com/our-story/working-at-walmart/opportunity-benefits


Okay, so, if we go by typical retail practice, that figure only includes skilled workers and hourly supervisors/managers. Employers like Walmart only hire cashiers and stock clerks as part-time workers (so they don't have to give them benefits). So that's still not very impressive.



graceadieu -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/14/2013 12:37:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

How do we know how it is calculated, and who is calculated in it.  It is not demonstrated on that page, and I assure you it is more PR than fact.  Cuz I actually know people who work there, full time and part time, and they aint making close to that.


Sure, but they're probably not full-time workers, which according to DesideriScuri is all that's counted in that figure. The front-end supervisor or head stock person or pharmacy technician, who are full-time, are the ones making $10-15/hour.



graceadieu -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/14/2013 1:09:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespot
The new bosses' wife works for Walmart. She has management experience and works in management for Walmart. She also works along side her assistant manager who was hired by Walmart five years ago as a cart collector.
He walked around the parking lot and rounded up carts. Five years later he's assistant manager to one of the highest grossing stores in South Carolina.


I'm gonna say this - big retail chains like Walmart, Target, etc do get a lot of slag for their labor practices and wages, some of it well-deserved.

But, in their defense, they also provide a business structure that allows a limited number of workers the opportunity to move up and get a better job that pays a little more. A lot of mom & pop businesses will never be able to give anyone a better job than "cashier" or "line cook".

When I worked at CVS, I worked hard and had aptitude and was promoted 3 times in 5 years, going from a part-time cashier making $8/hour to a full-time shift manager making $12.12 with benefits. Now, the high cost-of-living in the inner DC suburbs makes even the $12.12/hour a terrible wage for anyone with a family to support. But if they'd started out at, say, $10 and gone up to $15? That's still not a great living, but not so bad.

I think a lot of these kinds of companies could be good places to work, if we had stronger labor laws or more powerful retail unions to ensure that people made a decent wage and had protections.



Phydeaux -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/16/2013 11:51:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

[image]https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/q71/1462969_10151865486986275_1632927836_n.jpg[/image]


You see lucy lastic - thats exactly the problem. You talk the talk but you don't walk the walk.
No one is stopping you putting $.50 cents in the tip jar.

Study after study shows conservatives give more than "bleeding heart liberals" to charity.

Which reminds me of the old chestnut: "Remember when being liberal meant being generous with your OWN money?"

Liberals don't want to cough up money for social causes - they want to make *others* do it.



Phydeaux -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/16/2013 11:57:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu



I think a lot of these kinds of companies could be good places to work, if we had stronger labor laws or more powerful retail unions to ensure that people made a decent wage and had protections.


And then they'd be out of business. Just like every almost every other unionized business has either done or is doing.

Where are the US TV Manufacturers? Out of business.
US Jeans manufcaturers - gone.
Textiles - gone.

US car industry - down to what 35% market share?
US still industry - gone except for micro mills.
US ship building industry - gone except those maintained by DOD spending. US % of world wide ship building : what 0%? a category it used to own.

Why do you think that union % in industry is down to 7% or so?

More or less the only thing left unionized are government workers....
Notice whats happening to the post office?



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/17/2013 12:03:28 AM)

Is/was that the unions fault ? Or could it possibly be the greed of the companies for higher profits (gods forbid) at the expense of jobs and industry in their own country ?



EdBowie -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/17/2013 12:53:36 AM)

Both.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Is/was that the unions fault ? Or could it possibly be the greed of the companies for higher profits (gods forbid) at the expense of jobs and industry in their own country ?




DesideriScuri -> RE: Minimum wage in america (12/17/2013 6:08:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874
Is/was that the unions fault ? Or could it possibly be the greed of the companies for higher profits (gods forbid) at the expense of jobs and industry in their own country ?


Business's search for profits includes finding cost savings in labor. That they can find profits in shipping labor across the world, and shipping it back here, is amazing. Then again, if they are paying to have the raw inputs shipped here anyway, the shipping portion may be a wash.

Business does not exist to put people to work. Business does exist to make profits. Is there anything necessarily wrong with that? Isn't profit the incentive for an entrepreneur? Business has to have a Market, though. I could go outside and find a way to package snow, at least at the moment (Disclaimer: by "snow," I am talking about frozen precipitation). I can only charge what the Market will bear for my packaged snow, though. I can set my business up to rake in profits, and I can employ as many people as I find it necessary to fill the sales of my product. But, if there is no Market for my product, there will be no employment, nor will there be any profit. The goal of profits makes it entirely necessary that there be a Marketable good or service, doesn't it?

The cost of a good or service has to be low enough for the business to charge a price the Market is willing to pay. If there is enough competition, there will be a fight for ever lower Market prices to gain more sales. That puts pressure on business to reduce costs, including labor costs.

Now, wages will be set at a rate high enough to attract enough qualified employees for the business. If a business can't get enough talent at $X, it will have to raise X higher to attract those employees. The more qualified applicants, the lower X can be. The lower the standards for qualification, the more people will be qualified for that job, and the lower X will be.

As I have noted, wage offers at McD's increased as the unemployment rate was dropping and it became more difficult for McD's to attract enough applicants to fill positions. Wages aren't that high anymore, but the number of applicants is, presumably, much greater, too.




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