Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (12/16/2013 6:16:37 PM)

Thank God.

quote:

In a ruling with potentially far-reaching consequences, a federal judge declared Monday that the National Security Agency's bulk collection of millions of Americans' telephone records likely violates the U.S. Constitution's ban on unreasonable search. The ruling, filled with blistering criticism of the Obama administration's arguments, is the first of its kind on the controversial program.


http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/judge-deals-nsa-defeat-bulk-phone-collection-21236320?singlePage=true


Also in the story in the link is a line from the judge's opinion that is getting my vote for the quote of the decade:

quote:

The public has no interest in saving the government from the burdens of complying with the Constitution


Thoughts?





JeffBC -> RE: Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (12/17/2013 6:34:57 AM)

I agree that the public WANTS and NEEDS the government to be burdened by the constitution. Or, perhaps more accurately, the states need that and the public needs decent states.

Insofar as the rest, the NSA and related organizations have been wildly breaking any and all laws whenever they choose for quite some time. I see no reason that a silly little judge's opinion would curtail that behavior now. Obama and company will continue to support and fund these endeavors as will his predecessor no matter which party they come from.




hot4bondage -> RE: Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (12/17/2013 8:10:46 AM)

quote:

The public has no interest in saving the government from the burdens of complying with the Constitution


Yep. Great quote. I love how this ruling came down the day after that ridiculously one-sided 60 Minutes interview/infomercial.

I've noticed that when our federal government tries to claim more power, they often try to redefine a commonly used word or phrase. This time, it's "collect." The NSA claims that they are only collecting our phone records when they look at them, not when they take them and store them.

collect 1 |kəˈlekt|
verb [ trans. ]
1 bring or gather together (things, typically when scattered or widespread) : he went around the office collecting old coffee cups | he collected up all his clothing.
• accumulate and store over a period of time : collect rainwater to use on the garden.
• systematically seek and acquire (items of a particular kind) as a hobby : I've started collecting stamps.





mnottertail -> RE: Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (12/17/2013 8:34:15 AM)

I think it is more than 'likely' that it is unconstitutional. The SCOTUS has; however, been the vanguard of many of the slow undoings in our right to privacy, to be secure in our homes, our possessions, and unreasonable searches and seizures.

I give it a very unsure 50/50 at SCOTUS.




vincentML -> RE: Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (12/17/2013 8:59:46 AM)

Some snips from the ABC article that might suggest business as usual for NSA:

Robert F. Turner, a professor at the University of Virginia's Center for National Security Law, predicted Leon's decision was highly likely to be reversed on appeal. He said the collection of telephone metadata — the issue in Monday's ruling — already has been addressed and resolved by the Supreme Court.

"If part of his constitutional ruling is the intelligence utility of the program, he's not in a good position to judge that," Hayden said in an interview. "He makes a judgment that the government was not able to show that this stopped an imminent terrorist attack. That's not the only metric," as metadata also helps intelligence analysts understand their adversaries and track their networks and behavior.

The government has argued that under a 1979 Supreme Court ruling, Smith v. Maryland, no one has an expectation of privacy in the telephone data that phone companies keep as business records. In that ruling, the high court rejected the claim that police needed a warrant to obtain such records.





MrRodgers -> RE: Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (12/17/2013 11:30:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Some snips from the ABC article that might suggest business as usual for NSA:

Robert F. Turner, a professor at the University of Virginia's Center for National Security Law, predicted Leon's decision was highly likely to be reversed on appeal. He said the collection of telephone metadata — the issue in Monday's ruling — already has been addressed and resolved by the Supreme Court.

"If part of his constitutional ruling is the intelligence utility of the program, he's not in a good position to judge that," Hayden said in an interview. "He makes a judgment that the government was not able to show that this stopped an imminent terrorist attack. That's not the only metric," as metadata also helps intelligence analysts understand their adversaries and track their networks and behavior.

The government has argued that under a 1979 Supreme Court ruling, Smith v. Maryland, no one has an expectation of privacy in the telephone data that phone companies keep as business records. In that ruling, the high court rejected the claim that police needed a warrant to obtain such records.



Well as I asked in my OP I am thinking even though this court will violate Stare decisis when it chooses, they will uphold this as yet another baby step toward big brother. The govt. is still in conditioning stage and...it is working.




EdBowie -> RE: Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (12/17/2013 9:12:20 PM)

Just a note, stare decisis cannot be 'violated'. It isn't a law.



quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Some snips from the ABC article that might suggest business as usual for NSA:

Robert F. Turner, a professor at the University of Virginia's Center for National Security Law, predicted Leon's decision was highly likely to be reversed on appeal. He said the collection of telephone metadata — the issue in Monday's ruling — already has been addressed and resolved by the Supreme Court.

"If part of his constitutional ruling is the intelligence utility of the program, he's not in a good position to judge that," Hayden said in an interview. "He makes a judgment that the government was not able to show that this stopped an imminent terrorist attack. That's not the only metric," as metadata also helps intelligence analysts understand their adversaries and track their networks and behavior.

The government has argued that under a 1979 Supreme Court ruling, Smith v. Maryland, no one has an expectation of privacy in the telephone data that phone companies keep as business records. In that ruling, the high court rejected the claim that police needed a warrant to obtain such records.



Well as I asked in my OP I am thinking even though this court will violate Stare decisis when it chooses, they will uphold this as yet another baby step toward big brother. The govt. is still in conditioning stage and...it is working.





DesideriScuri -> RE: Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (12/18/2013 5:02:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Just a note, stare decisis cannot be 'violated'. It isn't a law.


While it isn't law, as you state, it is a general practice to rely on it's use. "Violating" it would mean not taking relying on that/those precedent/s, and ruling in a manner different to precedent.




EdBowie -> RE: Judge: NSA metadata collection is likely unconstitutional (12/18/2013 7:52:48 AM)

Which happens with great regularity. It is a guideline only.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Just a note, stare decisis cannot be 'violated'. It isn't a law.


While it isn't law, as you state, it is a general practice to rely on it's use. "Violating" it would mean not taking relying on that/those precedent/s, and ruling in a manner different to precedent.






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