Phydeaux
Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: joether
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
No. What I'm saying is that the current liberal administration is incompetent, inept and corrupt.
That they have sold out America for the sake of favorite constituencies.
I'm saying that they deliberately lied to the American public in expectation of remaining in power, and that they were callously indifferent that their policies would cause millions of people to lose insure and hence would result in the death of some and the misery of more.
I am additionally saying that these facts were predictable from 2010 and that they were aided and abetted by an uncritical media that had tingles up its leg.
So, if you're going to put words in my mouth - try to make it accurate.
Oh yeah, because the Bush Administration was COMPLETELY TRUTHFUL with those WMDs in Iraq, right?
Oh I forgot. Its morons' favorite argument. Its Bushes' fault. Really? You can't just admit that what Obozo is doing is illegal & immoral?
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You hate the free administration?
That's REALLY what the origin of the world 'Liberal' comes from (i.e. Liberalis). If your against a free administration, how can you call yourself a libertarian then? Its a contradiction!
Only in your mind. Liberalis originally meant "suitable for a free man". Clearly, I believe that the present administration, that expands government at the expense of free man, that spies on 'free men' - is not suitable for a free man.
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Bullshit.
Again, I cite you the federal register, which states that the dims not only knew that ACA would cause mass cancellations, they wrote the regulations to ensure that they did.
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You would need to show the burden of evidence on that one.
I already have. Multiple times and you have ignored it - mulitiple times.
Specifically, I provided you the link and reference to the federal register where in 2010 the CBO said that the expectations were that 40-80% (depending on the regulations written) of insurance plans would lose grandfathered status, which would force the cancellation of those policies.
I provided you links to the draft regulations that said the same thing.
I provided you links to the ABC / CBS and other insurance documents where these things were discussed by the Obozo administration and various insurance companies.
It doesn't need to be proved - its already been proved. Not by me - and all you have to do is read.
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
And of course there are numerous exemptions to get out of the $95 penalty.
There is only nine (to my knowledge). An its not getting out of the penalty, its being required to have a healthcare coverage if you meet the requirements under the law. The only way you get out of a penalty is in a court case with a good lawyer.
It does not take a lawyer to claim an exception to the ACA. Most exceptions will be handled administratively by the IRS and will require a simple affidavit.
That is all it really takes. However, in some cases additional material might need to be submitted for review. Seriously though, unless one is really HARDCORE against the ACA, eventually obtaining a healthcare insurance will become the wise action.
So you admit you were wrong
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
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ORIGINAL: joether
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Besides. The best way to screw with obamacare is sign up. Wait. Pay one premium. Wait 89 days. Pay another premium.
Wait 89 days.
An that is pretty inefficient on your wallet. More so after that $4,000 hospital bill two months after you paid once. Only takes one injury or illness to wipe your bank account out without health coverage. That is a hell of a gamble to make in a given year. An when you understand the human condition, it becomes ever unwise as one ages to go without it.
So say you. Someone that demonstrated repeated lack of knowledge of the ACA.
Yeah, because your knowledge on ANY subject on this forum has been shown to be failing.
So you say. Yet I've asked you multiple times to provide evidence. And of course cannot and do not.
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Don't you think its rather hypocritical to slam someone on their knowledge of a document when you NEVER read the document?
I think its rather hypocritical of you to slam someone when you have no knowledge of whether I've read the thing or not.
What is abundantly clear however, from the multiple, serious mistakes that you have made (need a lawyer for an exemption, enrollment at any time, no religious exemptions, etc. is that you have not read the law, and you have no fundamental understanding of it.
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
First I will address your point which as usual, misses the point. Insurers are not allowed to cancel your insurance for being 89 days late.
So you can receive 12 months of benefits for 9 months of costs- or more.
By all means, show the evidence....
Really? You can't google yourself?
Here, this took 3 seconds:
And then there’s the medical care providers. They’ve just discovered that there’s a 90 day cancellation window built into the law for the insured. In other words, once a policy is issued the insured can’t be cancelled for non-payment for at least 90 days. And when they are cancelled the providers are on the hook. Good luck with that.
http://wizbangblog.com/2013/12/23/about-todays-obamacare-deadline-white-house-moved-it/
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
And you can do it all again the next year. Sign up for a different plan.
They're not allowed to deny you - remember?
Go right ahead. Since insurance companies are well aware of individuals that will attempt to steal from them in some way. Oh, and they do talk with each other on a regular basis of individuals trying to do crap like this. Then they tell the FBI who hunts the person down and charges them with fraud!
And so the 8th major error.
I repeat to you again. In tiny words. They cannot deny you coverage.
And the 9th major error.
They are not allowed BY LAW to exchange information between each other. For reference I would direct you to: Oh yeah. That obamacare law you claim to have read so many times. Or Hippaa.
And the 10th majore error.
No, insurance companies can not call the FBI on you for not paying your health bill. The agreement to purchase insurance is a contract between you and an insurance company.
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Second: What gamble?
If you show up at a hospital - they are still required to treat you - whether you have obamacare or not.
An I'm telling you its really unwise.
And I'm telling you - who are you (or the feds) to tell anyone anything?
Young people are uninsured because, in general, insurance is not useful to them. That in general the net cost exceeded the net benefit.
So you and the feds have increased the costs and are trying to say - sign up its a good idea.
Sure. Under threat of law - you'll get a lot of people. But do you not see that if you have to compel a behavior under threat of law that this is not free?
That it is the opposite of free? You liberals thought you would pass a bill that everyone would adore - and you didn't listen when we said - not only no - but hell no.
We don't want your program, we don't want your insurance, we don't want your idea.
And even under threat of law people are still saying "hell no". Do you really think forcing people to do something they don't want to do is going to make them like it?
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Third: What gamble?
If you're 70 and you're not signed up for medicare - you're either stupid or principled, since other people pay your bills.
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
If you're 20 and your volunteering to pay for other peoples bills - you're either stupid, or a brainwashed dimocrat. Oh. Sorry. Thats not really a valid "or" is it.
Again, you really do not understand why people volunteer their time, money and effort towards organizations. I belong to one such organization. I place my time, money and effort towards it, because it really does help those I'm trying to help. And those people are often grateful. In fact, many of them will go on to help others even if they themselves are still in miserable shape. Are you really that tired, miserable, and distant from your fellow American? That helping them out can help you out further down the road? Seriously dude, go take a few dozen sessions with a good doctor or a therapist. I think it might seriously help you out in ways you can not fathom right now. You'll still be 'you', but not such a horrible view on life and reality.
An if your afraid of doing that (and there are plenty of people that fall into that boat), why not try volunteering your time towards some organization or group in your community? You might just find a few noble individuals.....
Again, you know nothing about me. I donated more than $100,000 dollars to a school for at risk youth. Which at the time was about one third my net worth.
I am a member of charitable organizations.
I volunteer time at a feed the homeless organization.
My family supported a poor family for christmas.
So you know nothing about me. And rather your horrible projection of me stems from your narrow preconceptions. You think that people that are opposed to you and what you stand for must be horrible people.
I suggest that perhaps instead you should consider extending the same courtesy to me that you reserve for yourself. The belief that others, who have different political views than you can still want what is best for the country and its people.
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Yes clearly. And republicans want to throw granny over the cliff. We suck the blood from minorities, and sell crack to the inner city.
No more response is really needed for such puerility.
Actually, the Republicans...DO...want to throw granny over the cliff. Its the mentality that helping to pay granny's medical bills is the ONLY reason why granny exists, and not what granny gives out to others. I often view many members of the Republican/Tea Party as devotes of The Sith. You know, from the Star Wars Universe. Its funny how many views of the Sith REALLY show striking similarity to how Republicans/Tea Party (more Tea Party than Republican) view 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'.
The Republican/Tea Party is against most Americans these days. They beat on gays, women, Hispanics, blacks, whites, Asians, those with medical conditions, the old, the young, and workers to name a few. It doesn't surprise most of these groups when Republicans fail to win public office. All those people who just lost their unemployment benefits are not very likely to vote Republican or Tea Party for a very long while. The Republican/Tea Party just gave the Democrats 1.3 million voters as of yesterday. While that doesn't sound like much, remember that many states that went red in previous elections only by a small margin of votes.
And these views are just more insanity.
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
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ORIGINAL: joether
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Finally - why should young people pay for this crap. They can still go the ER and get health care free.
Yes, but that then costs the government money. You like other conservatives are HEAVILY against the government spending money on inefficient things, right? Its more efficient to have a good understanding of one's body condition on numerous levels (in terms of dollars and cents). An how young is young? Is age 27 young? Since that is the age most who do not have it prior to that age would be require to prove they have obtained health coverage. An why should they do it? BECAUSE ITS THE LAW!
Since Mass Health went into effect, the ER's in the state could focus more on emergency situations rather than as a clinic for the uninsured. Or are you against emergency rooms being use for emergency situations?
LOL. Whereas under the ACA now we are going to pay for ER visits AND doctor visits. And insurance costs.
Oh to be there on the day five years from now when you actually understand that the ACA increased medical costs and did nothing to improve medical results.
All this is is a massive transfer of money from the middle class to the poor, using insurance companies to mask the prime mover.
We are in the process of destroying another industry (private medical insurance) and creating another bloated government entitlement that we can not afford and will not last 10 years in any event.
With an excellent chance it won't survive 2 years.
How was the United States paying for ER visits before? That is under several laws that came BEFORE the ACA was thought up. The ACA simply adds to those laws in defining things. Before the ACA, most people without health insurance would not go to a doctor. Those without a plan (i.e. paying the penalty) will STILL not go to a doctor's office. Those with a healthcare plan are more likely to do so. How is it all paid? The person attending the doctor's office, the US Government, and other organizations and agencies not affiliated with government.
Mostly, the United States *wasn't*.
The inability to pay for the care mandated by EMTALA is one of the things that caused healthcare costs to soar. The care mandated (but not compensated) came out of hospital's general funds which then had to be made up by people that could pay. Ie., typically those with insurance.
The US always had the ability to say - hey - we'd like to take care of more health related issues. But they didn't have the money. So rather than find a way to fund it - they found a way to shift the burden on to those that had insurance.
Duh.
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Your assuming that the purpose of the ACA was to improve medical results.
Oh so we're spending 1.7 trillion (now more than 2.0 billion) to get the same results? Or is it worse results? Which is it?
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You hate the ACA not because of the ACA but who pushed it into law. An that really shows your inability to weigh a bill or law objectively.
Again a pejorative assumption, with absolutely no evidence.
I protested EMTALA. I protested the medicare prescription drug coverage expansion.
I protested these things because we can't afford them; they are an unwarranted expansion of the government, because it is just another brick in the increased size of the federal goverment.
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There is no "...massive transfer of money from the middle class to the poor...." going on. That is total bullshit. But by all means, present the burden of evidence that states this is true.
I'm really surprised that you think any of these need links. Because it is so obvious: The laws gives subsidies to the poor. Who pays for the federal government - mostly the middle and upper classes.
Therefore, this is a wealth transfer from the middle and upper classes to the poor.
Not that you'll read any of the links, or consider the arguments. You'll just damn the sources.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2013/10/31/the-high-costs-of-obamacare-hit-home-for-the-middle-class/
http://www.nationaljournal.com/health-care/love-it-or-hate-it-obamacare-redistributes-americans-wealth-20131121
http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2013/12/21/nyts-obamacare-burdens-middle-class/
http://open.salon.com/blog/kenn_jacobine/2013/11/01/obamacare_is_mostly_a_wealth_redistribution_program
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You view the whole of the government as bloated....EXCEPT....the areas you agree on.
Again you know nothing about me. If you actually researched my views you would find that I advocate cutting every area of government - especially the areas I agree with.
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Keep it up, your helping the Democrats claim more seats in Congress in the next two elections.
Well, I must confess that when I started this thread I meant the 2014 elections.
I have offered to bet you on the results of the elections. But you never stand behind your convictions.
How about this: If the dimocrats net pickup seats in the 2014 congressional elections I won't post in the forums for a year.
If the republicans do - you don't post for a year.
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