Utah Gay Marriage Thread (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 3:18:46 PM)

Just in... It's a violation of the US Constitution to deny people the right to marry any person able to give lawful consent -- based on gender.





DomKen -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 3:25:38 PM)

And let the shit storm commence.

Although I do think every gay couple in the country wanting to get married look into a nice wedding in downtown Salt Lake City, just for the lulz.




EdBowie -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 3:26:32 PM)

I suspect there are some soiled undergarments in the Tabernacle tonight...




sloguy02246 -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 5:01:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I suspect there are some soiled undergarments in the Tabernacle tonight...


Talk about "magic" underpants!

[sm=eeew.gif]




Aylee -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 6:07:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Just in... It's a violation of the US Constitution to deny people the right to marry any person able to give lawful consent -- based on gender.




I would be happier with this statement minus the last three words.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 6:29:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Just in... It's a violation of the US Constitution to deny people the right to marry any person able to give lawful consent -- based on gender.




Canada just legalized prostitution.





joether -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 7:46:04 PM)

It does beg the question:

How much money has the government spent (local, states, and federal) in creating, maintaining and more importantly defending these sort of laws that are clearly unconstitutional? The funny part is that those laws got put on the books by the very same ideological group that often states it opposes wasteful government spending: conservatives!

As for the first question, that number is not fully known yet.

I had a chuckle at the lawyer's argument in defending this law:

"During a nearly four-hour hearing earlier this month in Salt Lake City, attorneys for the state argued that Utah's law promotes the state's interest in "responsible procreation" and the "optimal mode of child-rearing." They also asserted it's not the courts' role to determine how a state defines marriage, and that the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling last summer that struck down part of the Defense of Marriage Act doesn't give same-sex couples the universal right to marry. SOURCE

The amount of 'FAIL' on display here by those defending the law should be enough to have them disbarred for the rest of their lives. They really do not know why people get married. Or that marriage itself has a heavy load of legal components to it. Or that a careful review of the 14th amendment would show their case was doomed to failure. "...equal protection under the law..." is pretty much how the remaining DOMA-like laws in the remaining states will get undermined.







tweakabelle -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 8:44:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

It does beg the question:

How much money has the government spent (local, states, and federal) in creating, maintaining and more importantly defending these sort of laws that are clearly unconstitutional? The funny part is that those laws got put on the books by the very same ideological group that often states it opposes wasteful government spending: conservatives!



Just as amusing is this:

The same group of people - the right wingers - like to pose as 'defenders' of the Constitution. How much time and energy does this same group invest in attempting to subvert the Constitution by advocating for and proposing legislation that is unconstitutional, such as in this case?

One is tempted to conclude that their commitment to the Constitution is limited to those parts of it that suit their interests or compatible with their ideology. Which suggests that their posture as 'defenders' of the Constitution is merely hot air and rhetoric




EdBowie -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 9:13:57 PM)

Not all along...

Canada's Supreme Court on Friday struck down key sections of a law that effectively criminalized prostitution by banning brothels and soliciting on the street, ruling that they endangered prostitutes.

http://news.yahoo.com/canada-39-high-court-strikes-down-curbs-prostitution-151955438.html;_ylt=AraI_bfxRfaZwnwn5zkp8uLQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBsNWFkOTNlBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHNlYwNzcg--



quote:

ORIGINAL: wanderingjew

quote:

Canada just legalized prostitution.

Prostitution has been legal in Canada all along.





DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 9:59:12 PM)

So this makes...what? Sixteen, seventeen states where gay marriage is legal now? Pot legalization is gaining, too. And now prostitution... I'd say the Radical epoch is crumbling bit by bit. VBG!
[sm=applause.gif][sm=banana.gif][sm=cheering.gif][sm=cheerleader.gif][sm=dancer.gif][sm=dancing.gif]




EdBowie -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/20/2013 11:20:16 PM)

The simple act of exchanging money for sex was not criminalized. Canada has had anti-prostitution laws prohibiting running a prostitution enterprise for decades.

You can honk about being a self appointed expert all you want, nobody has to fall for such bullshit games.


quote:

ORIGINAL: wanderingjew

quote:

Not all along...

Yes all along. You might want to make sure you know what you are talking about before you argue. The exchange of sex for money (or other material gain) has never been illegal in Canada.

P.S. I am from Canada, so am a somewhat familiar with the situation in Canada.





farglebargle -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/21/2013 5:24:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


The amount of 'FAIL' on display here by those defending the law should be enough to have them disbarred for the rest of their lives.


This is as close to a judicial bitchslap as I've ever read:

"This argument is not persuasive"

[image]http://imgur.com/KaS0qK0.png[/image]




MsMJAY -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/21/2013 6:24:24 AM)

The reason they cannot articulate their interest is because their sole reason for prohibiting same sex marriage is the one argument that they KNOW is unconstitutional. Its because of religion.




farglebargle -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/21/2013 7:15:24 AM)

It's just that... I LOVE it when this stuff get to the 'judicial decision' stage. Where all the BULLSHIT we argue about gets nailed down on the stage, and a powerful microscope applied, and all the points, for or against, are tested in the crucible of the courtroom.

And then they write it up... And they get to write sentences like the one above... It sort of reaffirms to me that "The System Works". Sort of.

All your communication are still intercepted and archived without a warrant issued upon probable cause, of course..




kdsub -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/21/2013 10:38:32 AM)

Unless I am mistaken didn’t the Governor say this ruling went against the will of the people. This statement to me points out the basic issue in gay marriage and other conflicts concerning minority opinions and rights.

I believe this issue is worth another thread but I’ll address it here. Moving past all the rhetoric of a man and a woman blah blah blah… which should have the greater weight under our Constitution…will of the people or individual rights?

If it is will of the people then would not blacks most likely still be discriminated against? Or various religions be deemed illegal? Or interracial marriages be a felony?…Hell in some states guns would be completely illegal…etc

I think the answer is in the genius of our forefathers. They understood the tyranny of the majority and made sure individual rights were protected by the Constitution and administered by the courts as a balance. Yet… they left a path open for a super majority to change the Constitution at will but made it very difficult.

Although the interpretation of the Constitution by the courts often reflect prejudices of the day it is still the most practical way to guarantee that the will of the people, as a majority, does not discriminate against the individual in line with the Constitution.

So to me at least the Utah governor is wrong as is the law.

Butch




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/21/2013 12:22:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wanderingjew

quote:

Not all along...

Yes all along. You might want to make sure you know what you are talking about before you argue. The exchange of sex for money (or other material gain) has never been illegal in Canada.

P.S. I am from Canada, so am a somewhat familiar with the situation in Canada.


I am from the United States....so I know everything about laws in the U.S.

(Everything....because I'm from the U.S.)




ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: Utah Gay Marriage Thread (12/21/2013 12:56:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Just in... It's a violation of the US Constitution to deny people the right to marry any person able to give lawful consent -- based on gender.




I would be happier with this statement minus the last three words.


So, what other types of marriage are you advocating? I don't want to guess - please tell us what you have in mind.




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