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not having or showing concern or respect for the rights and feelings of other people : not polite

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ORIGINAL: kalikshama

During a speech Tuesday to the Urban League in Springfield, Ill., former Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders said she considers abstinence-only education as almost child abuse and advocated boosting comprehensive sex education programs nationwide, the AP/Chicago Tribune reports. Elders said that sex education programs should include information about abstinence and contraception. She added that teenagers, who experience strong emotions and raging hormones, have not been supplied with the tools to make the right decisions (AP/Chicago Tribune, 5/14/08).

http://go.nationalpartnership.org/site/News2?abbr=daily2_&page=NewsArticle&id=11324

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
If you're having sex, you're not abstaining from having sex. What else could there be? You can't abstain and have sex at the same time. They are mutually exclusive.

If you're condom breaks, you're not wearing a condom. What else could there be? You can't not wear a condom and wear a condom at the same time. They are mutually exclusive.
So there you go condoms 100% effective.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: eulero83
if are you practising to write a better obituary for Jacques de La Palice you need some more efforts...
look at Phydeaux numbers: abstinence classes reduces pregnancy risk by a 30% in the 12-14 age range, condom by an 85% if used without skills and 98% if used correctly. And by the way I think that in the 14-18 age range that 30% becomes a 0%. So there is no queston about what is better for saving the kids bodies, if the problem is how o save their souls than it is a different problem that I really don't care.

Are you attempting to link the education classes with the practice? That's not a legitimate practice.
I do not support "abstinence only" sex education, as I have stated a few times here. The success rate of the classes has no bearing on the success rate of the practice. Outside of the "Virgin Mary," are there any other instances where a woman who didn't have sex got pregnant (outside of the artificial options I mentioned before)? The story of the Virgin Mary may or may not be true. If it isn't, then there isn't even one instance where abstaining from sex resulted in pregnancy.

Mary had sex with Naughtius Maximus......I seem to recall the Guiness book of world records had this british lady who was supposedly a virgin at the time she gave birth.....which I assume was she still had her hymen. I suspect there is more to the story with that, that either her hymen didn't break cause the guy was really small or something, or he ejaculated on her and it got up there...who knows?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
And, here, you are wrong. I didn't say the Theory of Evolution was wrong, just that it hasn't been proven completely. There is evidence, but there are holes and gaps.
Teaching Evolution as "this is what science thinks happened" and Creation/ID as "here is another theory that others think explains it," doesn't demean either, but it also doesn't teach something as settled science when it isn't settled science.

1. creation/ID isn't a theory.
2. Evolution is a fact. That is settled science.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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it is the same way not coincidentally that many tea party members believe that welfare and government support goes to 'those people' and if we just got them freeloaders off of welfare, the budget would balance itself....

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More importantly, this isn't about virtuousness, it is about facing reality, something the leaders of your church have a hard time with. Let me give you an example, 20 years ago Uganda had an HIV infection rate approaching 50%, guys would sleep around and spread it to their wives and unborn children, it was horrible, and new infections were soaring. The government working with international aid groups started a program of condom distribution and a massive push for sex information for adults and teens, to try ad reach them, public service campaigns, etc...and it worked, the new HIV infection rate dropped like a stone, it was working. Unfortunately, a die hard Catholic was elected, and under pressure from the Catholic Bishops in the country, they halted condom give aways and all the sex education campaigns, everything but preaching abstinence outside marriage..and the HIV rate soared, and to this day Uganda has both a high HIV rate and also has a large rate of new cases....does their stance sound rational to you?

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: eulero83
if are you practising to write a better obituary for Jacques de La Palice you need some more efforts...
look at Phydeaux numbers: abstinence classes reduces pregnancy risk by a 30% in the 12-14 age range, condom by an 85% if used without skills and 98% if used correctly. And by the way I think that in the 14-18 age range that 30% becomes a 0%. So there is no queston about what is better for saving the kids bodies, if the problem is how o save their souls than it is a different problem that I really don't care.

Are you attempting to link the education classes with the practice? That's not a legitimate practice.
I do not support "abstinence only" sex education, as I have stated a few times here. The success rate of the classes has no bearing on the success rate of the practice. Outside of the "Virgin Mary," are there any other instances where a woman who didn't have sex got pregnant (outside of the artificial options I mentioned before)? The story of the Virgin Mary may or may not be true. If it isn't, then there isn't even one instance where abstaining from sex resulted in pregnancy.

Your point is a bromide, what you say is just an obvious tecnicality but not the point of the thread. I had classes in how driving a car and then I was able to drive a car, I think being thaught can help also with using a condom.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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You made the assertion that theory (and pointedly evolution) was not a fact. I gave citations showing that science (not just the NAS but science) has tested it over and over again and accept it as fact.

By your reasoningnothing is a fact. No matter how much evidence there is, one can always make the personal assertion that there is still not enough evidence to "prove" it.

The definition you chose for fact is "something known or proven to be true. How do we prove anything? Or do we in your opinion prove anything at all? Do facts even exist as far as you are concerned? (These are not rhetorical questions.)

Give me an example of something you believe to be a fact.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
And, here, you are wrong. I didn't say the Theory of Evolution was wrong, just that it hasn't been proven completely. There is evidence, but there are holes and gaps.

Teaching Evolution as "this is what science thinks happened" and Creation/ID as "here is another theory that others think explains it," doesn't demean either, but it also doesn't teach something as settled science when it isn't settled science.

1. creation/ID isn't a theory.

2. Evolution is a fact. That is settled science.

3. Yes there is theory of evolution which mortars many many facts together into a coherant narrative and that mortar may well change here and there from time to time but that doesn't mean that the facts disapear. The "gaps" in evolution where it's theory simply aren't big enough to shove creation/ID into.

I have no quibble with the theory of evolution. But the statement "Evolution is a fact. That is settled science" is simply never true.

It is a Theory of Evolution, well supported by thousands of data points to be sure.

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

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ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: kalikshama

....To the contrary, teens in states that prescribe more abstinence education are actually more likely to become pregnant(Figure 2).

Lies, damn lies & statistics.. and the dimocrats that push them.

Such cleverly constructed wordsmithing.

Buried in the text of said observation that pregnances in white girls are 28.7 per thousands; black 108; hispanic 147. That single fact alone explains your pregnancy map more than adequately - and far better than the smug assertion that it is due conservative policies.

Actually not, as always.
From the study

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we show that increasing emphasis on abstinence education is positively correlated with teenage pregnancy and birth rates. This trend remains significant after accounting for socioeconomic status, teen educational attainment, ethnic composition of the teen population, and availability of Medicaid waivers for family planning services in each state.

Unlike cons actual scientists do think.

Here's a little thought experiment. Map teen pregnancy rates by state. Correlate by racial distribution.
See how it varies from the authors map.

Answer: Not much.

Ergo, what I said was accurate.

And as for 'scientists'. She's an associate professor of plant biology.
She ignored two major variables known to strongly influence teen pregnancy rates and said her results strongle suggested that comprehensive sex education was in order. Thats like doing optical astronomy during the day and saying the results prove more powerful telescopes are in order.

What exactly does race have to do with it? If abstinence works how does race even play a part in that?

MsMJAY-

I think you know the answer to that question, unfortunately...that in the mind of people like the poster, teen mothers are strictly the provence of 'those people' ie inner city blacks and hispanics, it is the same way not coincidentally that many tea party members believe that welfare and government support goes to 'those people' and if we just got them freeloaders off of welfare, the budget would balance itself....

Course, the fact that white girls down south get pregnant at a rate higher than in northern states doesn't matter to them, or that the teen pregnancy rate among all groups was way too high, doesn't matter, it is of course isn't a problem with the God fearing, God blessed white people *gag*.....Bristol Palin I guess must have been an adopted non white baby under that hypothesis, and I guess all the white girls who get pregnant must really be one of 'those' people, too *grimace*......to quote Charlie Brown after Lucy tells him how many games their team has lost, how many runs they have given up versus scored, etc, "lucy, tell your statistics to shut up"....MsM, keep in mind people like the OP and the GOP live in Fox sound bite territory, where if you spread bullshit long enough it turns into gold.....

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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MsMJAY-

I think you know the answer to that question, unfortunately...that in the mind of people like the poster, teen mothers are strictly the provence of 'those people' ie inner city blacks and hispanics, it is the same way not coincidentally that many tea party members believe that welfare and government support goes to 'those people' and if we just got them freeloaders off of welfare, the budget would balance itself....

Course, the fact that white girls down south get pregnant at a rate higher than in northern states doesn't matter to them, or that the teen pregnancy rate among all groups was way too high, doesn't matter, it is of course isn't a problem with the God fearing, God blessed white people *gag*.....Bristol Palin I guess must have been an adopted non white baby under that hypothesis, and I guess all the white girls who get pregnant must really be one of 'those' people, too *grimace*......to quote Charlie Brown after Lucy tells him how many games their team has lost, how many runs they have given up versus scored, etc, "lucy, tell your statistics to shut up"....MsM, keep in mind people like the OP and the GOP live in Fox sound bite territory, where if you spread bullshit long enough it turns into gold.....



Yup he is hating on those inner city people and that's not right. But then again you are doing the same thing to the southern states by implying that anyone south of the Mason Dixon line are a bunch of ignorant sluts so how is that any different? Now I understand from your past posts that you have a real problem with religion but bigotry against any group isn't pretty. Even the ones you hate.

I am south of the Mason Dixon line. Where is the comment about all of us being ignorant sluts? I will most definitely call out (and set straight) anyone who said that.

(in reply to thishereboi)

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ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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MsMJAY-

I think you know the answer to that question, unfortunately...that in the mind of people like the poster, teen mothers are strictly the provence of 'those people' ie inner city blacks and hispanics, it is the same way not coincidentally that many tea party members believe that welfare and government support goes to 'those people' and if we just got them freeloaders off of welfare, the budget would balance itself....

Course, the fact that white girls down south get pregnant at a rate higher than in northern states doesn't matter to them, or that the teen pregnancy rate among all groups was way too high, doesn't matter, it is of course isn't a problem with the God fearing, God blessed white people *gag*.....Bristol Palin I guess must have been an adopted non white baby under that hypothesis, and I guess all the white girls who get pregnant must really be one of 'those' people, too *grimace*......to quote Charlie Brown after Lucy tells him how many games their team has lost, how many runs they have given up versus scored, etc, "lucy, tell your statistics to shut up"....MsM, keep in mind people like the OP and the GOP live in Fox sound bite territory, where if you spread bullshit long enough it turns into gold.....



Yup he is hating on those inner city people and that's not right. But then again you are doing the same thing to the southern states by implying that anyone south of the Mason Dixon line are a bunch of ignorant sluts so how is that any different? Now I understand from your past posts that you have a real problem with religion but bigotry against any group isn't pretty. Even the ones you hate.

I am south of the Mason Dixon line. Where is the comment about all of us being ignorant sluts? I will most definitely call out (and set straight) anyone who said that.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Prove that to be true. Any proof that a condom, when worn properly, is 100% effective?

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

And, here, you are wrong. I didn't say the Theory of Evolution was wrong, just that it hasn't been proven completely. There is evidence, but there are holes and gaps.

Teaching Evolution as "this is what science thinks happened" and Creation/ID as "here is another theory that others think explains it," doesn't demean either, but it also doesn't teach something as settled science when it isn't settled science.

What is really interesting, is that there are people who cling to Evolution as tightly as some cling to the Bible; it's almost like it's their religion. There are gaps in our understanding, but people accept it as Gospel, applying faith where science hasn't shown the proof.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
And yet the very first line of your quote says evolution is a theory.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
The oxford dictionary, fortunately removed from the perview of the National Academies, says nothing about the national academies definition.

fact: a thing that is known or proved to be true:

Since a theory is never proven, (only supported) it ergo cannot be a fact.

Looking in the miriam webster definition of "theory" we find:
the·o·ry
noun \ˈthē-ə-rē, ˈthir-ē\

: an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events

Since you may not define an object in terms of itself (tautological) it seems that indeed, a fact is not a theory.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
A quick perusal finds no other cases where the NAS calls a theory a fact.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
For example the theory of gravity is, wait for it: a theory.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
So it seems that in our zeal to proclaim evolution a fact that the national acadmies makes a special exception for the word fact. Thereby removing themselves from the debate.

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ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I was raised Catholic, and am following Pope Francis with interest. I hope and believe he will address this soon. Here's a petition to encourage him to do so:

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/pope-francis-say-yes-to-condoms-2

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Every step is known, then?