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Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 4:29:31 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I saw a story from Charlottesville Va about a suspected incident of the "knockout game" (Link)
The story made me think of another knockout story (Link)

For those of you unfamiliar with this crap, the knockout game is where one or more males (almost invariably black, and young) pick a victim (almost always white, and appearing defenseless) to assault. There has been at least one book (White Girl Bleed a Lot) written about knockout attacks. There have been dozens of arrests. The feds had brought hate crime charges against exactly nobody until they charged Barrett. The known evidence against Barrett is detailed above, and it's pretty thin gruel imo. The hate crime evidence against several black defendants is voluminous, and strong against many others (read the cited book, or find articles by Colin Flaherty- or many others).

Let me be clear. If the evidence against Barrett makes the element of a "hate crime", I'm happy to see him prosecuted under that statute. The only thing in this regard that would make me happier than his victim having shot and killed him is if some other victim, in some other assault, had pulled out high-capacity semi-automatic and used multiple magazines to kill half a dozen attackers.

Well, that or seeing our racist piece of shit AG impeached.

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 12/30/2013 5:09:01 PM >

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2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.
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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 4:37:51 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		A white guy that hit a African American in Texas is being charged with a hate crime.

Not new.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 5:10:55 PM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		jlf, I accidently posted just the first sentence of this; and that's all you had to read or to respond to, I think.
Sorry

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 6:16:43 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Gonna be tough. You said "almost invariably black" and "almost always white".

If it was 100%, it's be easy. But otherwise, you'd have to make the argument that the difference in makeup of both the attacker and victim population, as opposed to the general population, is statistically different, and the jurors' eyes will glaze over.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 6:35:51 PM   
MsMJAY


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Status: offline 		Personally I hope they catch every single person who is committing these attacks. In this particular case it was very fortunate that the dumbass young criminal made a video of all of the evidence on his cell phone; confessed to an undercover cop in a bar; and then showed the cop the video complete with footage of him admitting he was looking for someone black to attack. Let's just hope and pray that some of the other criminals involved in this type of act are equally as stupid.

And I wouldn't worry too much about him being charged with a hate crime. Hate crimes are incredibly hard to win................. Unless you are dumb enough to video the whole thing and then show it to an undercover cop.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 6:42:22 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
Personally I hope they catch every single person who is committing these attacks. In this particular case it was very fortunate that the dumbass young criminal made a video of all of the evidence on his cell phone; confessed to an undercover cop in a bar; and then showed the cop the video complete with footage of him admitting he was looking for someone black to attack. Let's just hope and pray that some of the other criminals involved in this type of act are equally as stupid.


Agreed.

quote:

And I wouldn't worry too much about him being charged with a hate crime. Hate crimes are incredibly hard to win................. Unless you are dumb enough to video the whole thing and then show it to an undercover cop.


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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 6:43:05 PM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		Er, no

Cases are tried singly
Evidence is presented as it pertains to individual cases
I wasn't talking conspiracy charges.....

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 6:47:04 PM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		Hate crimes carry a tougher sentence, so: great.
If it locks him up for a longer sentence, I'm all for it.
And I don't care about his supposed bipolar disorder.
Attacking the elderly deserve what they get, including being shot by a bystander.
You won't see much of this crap in public here in WV, or it'll be Darwin in actin for sure

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 7:01:10 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 7:33:22 PM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		You can bet your ass that if it was bands of white kids hunting down black people it would rate more than "nm"

It would be TM x 100

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/30/2013 7:49:43 PM   
njlauren


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Status: offline 		The question for the hate crime is are they targeting someone because of their race, if so it is a hate crime. I have heard all kinds of bs about hate crimes laws, but the reality is that the prosecution can't just say "oh, X is white and they assaulted a black guy, it is a hate crime", they have to prove that X assaulted Y because he was black. Race on race crime is not a hate crime, if the motivation is anything other than race, or sexual orientation, gender, whatever is covered. Though they didn't exist at the time, when the band of gaffones in Queens chased a black guy to his death, it was a hate crime because they targeted him for being black. It depends on the motive, and there can be mixed motives. If someone attempts to rob someone, but then because that person is of another race, kills them, they could be charged with a hate crime in the murder but not the robbery, if the robbery was random but killing the guy was race, the murder would be a hate crime....

I know a bit about hate crimes, have ada's in the family, and the reality is that they are very hard to try, you need to show the motive of the person doing it , and despite what some think, for the most part the race of the victim and perp doesn't matter, black on white or white on black hate crimes are tried roughly in the same proportions, the stats are out there.

In the 'knockout' game, if they can show the reason the mutants did this was because the victims were white, they should be charged with first degree assault and battery as a hate crime and given the maximum sentence, we went through this once before in the 1980's (it was called wilding), and the legal system looked at it as teens having fun, not what it was, a serious crime. Among other things, the perps knew they would likely get away with a slap on the wrist, and it led to heightened racial tensions that later on led to a lot of ugliness.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/31/2013 3:40:44 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
In the 'knockout' game, if they can show the reason the mutants did this was because the victims were white, they should be charged with first degree assault and battery as a hate crime and given the maximum sentence, we went through this once before in the 1980's (it was called wilding), and the legal system looked at it as teens having fun, not what it was, a serious crime. Among other things, the perps knew they would likely get away with a slap on the wrist, and it led to heightened racial tensions that later on led to a lot of ugliness.


I find myself wondering what's worse, actually: Doing violence against someone out of hatred or doing it because one thinks it's "fun and games"? In terms of society's needs, which one would constitute the greater threat to society? Which one would be more easily rehabilitated?

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/31/2013 3:50:01 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

You can bet your ass that if it was bands of white kids hunting down black people it would rate more than "nm"

It would be TM x 100

yep was gonna show that its largely a myth that its "bands" of any colours
but I realised it simply wasnt worth the effort

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/31/2013 5:29:37 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		WASHINGTON -- A bipolar, 27-year-old Texas man who allegedly filmed himself punching an elderly African-American man as part of the "Knockout Game" will challenge the constitutionality of the federal hate crimes statute under which he was charged, his lawyer told The Huffington Post Monday.

Conrad Alvin Barrett was arrested last week and charged by federal prosecutors in connection with the November assault. He was denied bail on Friday, and is currently in federal custody. The 79-year-old victim spent several days in the hospital after the attack.

Barrett was charged under The Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr., Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009, which had a broader reach than previous hate crimes statutes. The government has argued that Congress' power to pass the hate crimes laws comes from the 13th Amendment, which outlawed slavery, because hate crimes laws help eradicate badges of slavery.

George Parnham, a lawyer for Barrett, said in an interview that he planned to challenge the constitutionality of the hate crimes statute. He said it was "absolutely" inappropriate for the feds to get involved in this case, and that this type of alleged assault should have been charged under existing Texas law. His client could face up to 10 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 if convicted on the federal level.

"This is a case that could have easily been handled by state authorities," Parnham told HuffPost.

DOJ has already successfully defended several challenges to the 2009 hate crimes statute in court, with judges finding that Congress has extensive authority under the 13th Amendment to prohibit racially motivated violence. One federal judge wrote that the Supreme Court has "strongly implied that racially motivated assaults constitute a badge of slavery under the 13th Amendment."

The "Knockout Game" isn't new, but several cases highlighted in the media have involved black assailants targeting white victims. The fact that this is the only "knockout" case to be prosecuted by the feds has not gone unnoticed by conservative outlets.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/30/knockout-hate-crimes-charge_n_4519982.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/31/2013 12:58:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It all started here in St Louis...ALL are black on white or Asian... one man 70+ was killed and others seriously injured. It most certainly is a hate crime here.

We have not had any retaliatory white on black yet but when it does IT should be a hate crime as well.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/31/2013 12:59:22 PM >

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/31/2013 2:59:41 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

Doing violence against someone out of hatred or doing it because one thinks it's "fun and games"?


It's more like thinking it's fun to do violence against people you hate.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/31/2013 3:04:31 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

It most certainly is a hate crime here.

From everything I have read you are absolutely right: it is a hate crime.

It just isn't prosecuted as such by the feds unless the victim is the sole black person.

When is someone there going to go all Charles Bronson on some of these thugs?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/31/2013 3:18:46 PM   
Ladytisha


Posts: 112
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Status: offline 		Read and re-read the thread to make sure I'm not assuming. Not sure if your aware of the history with African American and Whites but that would be nothing new. The last few months it's been black on white, white on black killings. Not sure were your from but I'm in Texas and of course they are going to go the Hate Crime route. When he get to prison he will have to be kept in protective custody or he's a dead man plain and simple.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/31/2013 7:46:23 PM   
BamaD


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Don't know if it qualifies as a hate crime, but it is a hateful crime.
It displays blatant targeting of the elderly, but they are not a protected group.

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RE: Knockout game. Hate crime? - 12/31/2013 8:26:15 PM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		The knockout game is the perfect example of the Feral teens I have ranted about in other threads.

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