I have no idea what to do here

I have no idea what to do here (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 4:50:33 PM)
My niece, okay she is not my niece by blood, call her adopted, just got word that her father who has terminal cancer, went into the hospital this evening. It does not look like he will come out. When Giz started talking to her mother again, her father disowned her. Here is the situation. If Giz shows up at the house, step mom has threatened to have her arrested for trespassing. If she shows up at the hospital, step mom will have security escort her off the grounds. We are trying to get the money together to fly her and Damian back to Easton PA so that she can tell her dad goodbye, regardless of the risks created by her step mother. Now I am considering calling the pastor of her step mother's church and tell him what a member of his congregation is doing, as well as the chaplain at the hospital. Personally, I think step mom needs an all expense paid one way vacation to the rim of an erupting volcano.

OsideGirl -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:00:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 If Giz shows up at the house, step mom has threatened to have her arrested for trespassing. Unless she has a no trespassing sign, she can't automatically do that. She would have to tell your niece to leave and your niece would have to refuse. quote: If she shows up at the hospital, step mom will have security escort her off the grounds. Step Mom does not own the hospital. She may request to have someone removed from his room, but unless your niece is disruptive, they would not remove her from the hospital. (And chances are that the nurses would take pity on your niece)

Rule -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:08:36 PM)
Consult a lawyer.

kalikshama -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:09:52 PM)
OG beat me to it - if there's no restraining order, there's no issue at the hospital. Maybe a social worker at the hospital can help.

PeonForHer -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:14:48 PM)
I can relate to this matter thoroughly, JLF. My friend, who I also call G or Giz (spooky!), has a father who is dying. He's not expected to last more than a couple of days now. My friend G's mother won't have her in the house at the same time as G's sister, Deborah, because the two of them don't get on. That I can accept, even though I find it feeble. But the mother has also "decreed" that G should not turn up to the hospital before her father dies, either. Sod that. G's mother does not get to decree anything. Re this point, quote: If she shows up at the hospital, step mom will have security escort her off the grounds. How and why? Surely your niece has just as much right to have security escort this step mom off the grounds? That is to say - no right at all. No one relation 'owns' a given person who's dying and gets to dictate who can and cannot visit the dying person, surely? God, I hate it when old people are so damned childish. And these days, I bloody tell them that they're being childish, too.

SweetAnise -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:18:49 PM)
I agree with everyone. However if dad doesn't have any issues then she should be able to see him. It would look very selfish for stepmom to catch an attitude during this time. However, if dad says no, then you may have an issue. The patient is the one who has the right to say yay or nay.

windchymes -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:22:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 If Giz shows up at the house, step mom has threatened to have her arrested for trespassing. Unless she has a no trespassing sign, she can't automatically do that. She would have to tell your niece to leave and your niece would have to refuse. quote: If she shows up at the hospital, step mom will have security escort her off the grounds. Step Mom does not own the hospital. She may request to have someone removed from his room, but unless your niece is disruptive, they would not remove her from the hospital. (And chances are that the nurses would take pity on your niece) This. As far as the pastor telling the congregation what the step-mom is doing.....as much as I agree that her behavior is horrible, it would be very inappropriate for him to do that. Maybe he could accompany Giz and act as a go-between if necessary. I'm pretty sure that as his daughter, she has some right to be there unless he has specifically requested that she not be. The best thing for Giz to do is to be on her best behavior, play by all the rules, be nice to everybody and take all the high roads. That way the step-mom will look like the beast that she is and the hospital staff will intervene to some degree. Giz should quietly speak to his nurse, explain the situation tactfully, and I'm guessing that if her father is still coherant and they ask him if he would like to see his daughter and he says yes, the step-mom will have to just go smoke a cig or something. If anyone goes in with guns blazing, no one's going to get in to see him. The hospital staff's priority is going to be her father's wishes and health, not step-mom's. If step-mom has that confrontational of a personality, I'm sure they're already aware of it. They've dealt with obnoxious family members before. Their priority will be her father.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:23:24 PM)
I know the laws are a bit different over the pond but my guess is the step-mom would be the legal next-of-kin and unless a will or other document dictates otherwise, surely she would also be/become the executor of his 'estate' all the while he is non-communicative of his wishes?? So in essence, she has the legal power (in abstentia) to dictate almost everything to do with him and any arrangements. And that would also include the barring of direct decendants of his at the hospital or his home. I would do as Rule stated - get expert advice from a reputable lawyer PDQ. ETA: Of course, if he is able to talk, then his wishes override everyone else's - including step-mom's.

xxblushesxx -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:31:39 PM)
It depends on the hospital freedomedwarf, but generally, unless the person is unable to communicate his/her own wishes, the spouse does not automatically get to dictate who visits/who does not. (unless the nurses agree with her, and then daughter has a bit of a problem. There is no executor until someone is deceased, so that point is moot. Without a written POA, (there is no such thing as an implied POA) she does not have the rights you implied. (although much of this will depend on the hospital's written (and unwritten) policies.

SweetAnise -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:41:36 PM)
If the person is unable to communicate then you need to talk to the Power of Attorney (POA) that could be the stepmom and likely is...she could be the one in control of his medical decisions. Find out if she is the POA for him medically and financially, however if he can speak, he has the final word. Really dad is very ill this is about peace and calm not fighting. You probably will need to eventually speak to lawyer if there has been big problems is in the past and of course unless a restraining order is in place they cannot keep you away.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:45:53 PM)
That would indicate an extreme and opposing legal point from UK laws. Here, the 'legal' next of kin has the effective power of someone granted power of attourney. They would automatically assume complete control of said domain in abstentia. The reason I know that is because being the eldest son I was given that power after my father went into hospital with chronic pneumonia and other complications to do with his cancer - he was medically kept under deep sedation. Mum had died 3 years previously so I was his legal next of kin. The family had previous issues with my brother's daughter and I just told the hospital that on no account was she to be allowed in to visit him.... Simple as that. And no, he wasn't dead then. He didn't die until a week later and I was automatically appointed as executor of his estate. This of course all presumes Giz's father has no form of communication.

kalikshama -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:49:35 PM)
My man has been dealing with social workers at his father's nursing home and hospital and they have been very helpful. I suggest you start there and not be adversarial.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 5:55:34 PM)
The problem is kali, it's not jlf or Giz's thing that are the root of the problem. From how I read his OP, it's Giz's step-mom that is going to be the one with the short fuse to a powder-keg of aggro. Your man is fortunate to be within an amicable situation. jlf's post seems to indicate his situation is far from amicable with Giz's step-mom.

kalikshama -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 6:10:37 PM)
Oh, I understand that. I think the social worker can help facilitate the visit and act as a referee.

angelikaJ -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 6:13:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Oh, I understand that. I think the social worker can help facilitate the visit and act as a referee. And being nice to the social worker and the hospital staff will go a long way towards a good outcome.

littlewonder -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 7:31:39 PM)
Go to the hospital, walk up to the nursing desk and let them know what's going on and she would appreciate it if she could be escorted into the room in case of a problem or for them to talk to the stepmother so there will be no problems. Also ask the nurses to have security on hand in case of any violence from the stepmother.

xxblushesxx -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/30/2013 8:56:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 That would indicate an extreme and opposing legal point from UK laws. Here, the 'legal' next of kin has the effective power of someone granted power of attourney. They would automatically assume complete control of said domain in abstentia. The reason I know that is because being the eldest son I was given that power after my father went into hospital with chronic pneumonia and other complications to do with his cancer - he was medically kept under deep sedation. Mum had died 3 years previously so I was his legal next of kin. The family had previous issues with my brother's daughter and I just told the hospital that on no account was she to be allowed in to visit him.... Simple as that. And no, he wasn't dead then. He didn't die until a week later and I was automatically appointed as executor of his estate. This of course all presumes Giz's father has no form of communication. Your father could not speak for himself at the time. I don't recall the OP saying this gentleman can't speak for himself, but perhaps he did. That is the difference in the two scenarios I gave. :)

LookieNoNookie -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/31/2013 5:31:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 My niece, okay she is not my niece by blood, call her adopted, just got word that her father who has terminal cancer, went into the hospital this evening. It does not look like he will come out. When Giz started talking to her mother again, her father disowned her. Here is the situation. If Giz shows up at the house, step mom has threatened to have her arrested for trespassing. If she shows up at the hospital, step mom will have security escort her off the grounds. We are trying to get the money together to fly her and Damian back to Easton PA so that she can tell her dad goodbye, regardless of the risks created by her step mother. Now I am considering calling the pastor of her step mother's church and tell him what a member of his congregation is doing, as well as the chaplain at the hospital. Personally, I think step mom needs an all expense paid one way vacation to the rim of an erupting volcano. Jlf, there's so much more to the story...I'm so sorry you and yours are feeling pain.

RedMagic1 -> RE: I have no idea what to do here (12/31/2013 5:40:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 My niece, okay she is not my niece by blood, call her adopted, just got word that her father who has terminal cancer, went into the hospital this evening. It does not look like he will come out. When Giz started talking to her mother again, her father disowned her. Here is the situation. If Giz shows up at the house, step mom has threatened to have her arrested for trespassing. If she shows up at the hospital, step mom will have security escort her off the grounds. We are trying to get the money together to fly her and Damian back to Easton PA so that she can tell her dad goodbye, regardless of the risks created by her step mother. Now I am considering calling the pastor of her step mother's church and tell him what a member of his congregation is doing, as well as the chaplain at the hospital. Personally, I think step mom needs an all expense paid one way vacation to the rim of an erupting volcano. Who has power of attorney? The stepmom? If so, she has legal power over the visitors list. This can be a good thing, believe me, as we had to deal with some obnoxious relatives when my brother was dying. However, it doesn't mean the stepmom can kick the daughter out of the hospital. She can only prevent the daughter from entering the room the father is in. If the daughter causes a disturbance, hospital security can have her removed, but that's a separate issue. The stepmom going crazy and yelling at the daughter, or at security, won't cause the hospital to do anything except ask the stepmom to chill out. So the daughter needs to keep her cool. Absolutely priority one. If she needs to go, she should go. She should take reading material, anything she needs to pray with (rosary beads or whatever), a parting gift for dad, and a water under the bridge gift for stepmom. Like stepmom's favorite flower, or a scarf of her favorite color. All she can do is to try to mend fences, and see what happens. Someone needs to be the adult in this situation, and it might as well be her.

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