Uh when did it become child abuse...

Uh when did it become child abuse... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

jlf1961 -> Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/4/2014 7:01:29 PM)
To give your kids chores? I have not been able to verify it, so I dont swear it is gospel, but a member of a local group I belong to swears that CPS got a complaint because she was making her kid do chores. She is a single mother who is living with her parents, who own a horse operation, breeding, training and boarding. According to her, she was told that having him help feed and muck stalls is considered child abuse as it violates child labor laws. If this is true, I have a damn good idea what is wrong with kids today besides the fact parents are afraid to discipline them.

bcky -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/4/2014 7:09:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 To give your kids chores? I have not been able to verify it, so I dont swear it is gospel, but a member of a local group I belong to swears that CPS got a complaint because she was making her kid do chores. She is a single mother who is living with her parents, who own a horse operation, breeding, training and boarding. According to her, she was told that having him help feed and muck stalls is considered child abuse as it violates child labor laws. If this is true, I have a damn good idea what is wrong with kids today besides the fact parents are afraid to discipline them. that's when you threaten the young whipper snapper with sending him/her to military academy! [;)] [:D]

Rawni -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/4/2014 7:58:29 PM)
Some states or counties are worse than others, just as with the social worker that addresses the situation. There are places that have some real serious issues and you can find lists of the worst places to deal with them, online. You can assume that about half of what you read of witness testimony is either not told in full or misunderstood, however, I have worked cases where chores were an issue. One in Colorado, which seems to be one of those really difficult states for these things, was chronically ill. She didn't work, her husband did. They had three happy kids that didn't do chores, but the social worker insisted that because mom was so ill, that her children were caregivers to her. This was very much not the case. By the time I got involved it was too late to assist them. They lost all three children, the oldest seventeen and trying to be heard, wanting her mother and to be with her, insisting that what they were accused of was not true and unable to see her parents until she was eighteen. The others were sent to foster home to await adoption. I was a part of many such situations with those I advocated for. Each county, state and social worker can make or break a situation. Just like in MO, spanking isn't a great idea, you can do it, but you best not leave a mark or let anyone see. It is a matter of interpretation. Now in one situation, MO wanted to investigate, but the other parent lived in Kansas where the incidents were taking place. Mo would have removed the child. Kansas wouldn't. If there is a business... they can assume that the children are working in that business, but to prove yourself innocent could be a very costly and time consuming process. Think about it this way. When embroiled in a case with social services... there are many things parents will have to do and pay for. If you are poor, you really can't pay so it doesn't really pay to take on a case like that. If you can pay... well, then we have another story. One of the biggest web sites that fought injustice has disappeared after man years of helping people save their families. They helped me save my daughter by knowing exactly what social services would do because she was ill with my illness and missing school and the doctors didn't want to diagnose her because they were afraid it would discourage her. Like she didn't fucking know and wasn't taught by me how to keep on going and make a life. You see, each state gets money for those in foster care. They get even bigger money when there is an adoption. Child stealing is big money in this country. Which children are in demand for adoption? Those will be the families most often challenged. You talk too much about it... and well... you just might meet some legal challenges. Those that have been through it that no longer have minor children, are the ones that need to be talking, but still... they can be silenced by legal ramifications and the closing of web sites for various reasons. I don't see many out there anymore.

shiftyw -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/4/2014 8:06:31 PM)
If my parents had me waiting tables and I was underage, it would violate laws. If she runs the stable for profit, there are child labor laws being violated. I wasn't allowed to work for my parents until I was 12. A horse stable, on top of that, if she's a boarding facility- has other safety and liability rules they need to follow, and they may be caring for someone else's horses, that puts the horse owner in a scary position were something were to happen to the barn owners child because of the horse owner's horse. If the child is just cleaning their own horses stall, there is no liability really, but if she's using them as free labor in a boarding facility, that sounds like a HUGE liability nightmare for those that board their horses there.

jlf1961 -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/4/2014 8:12:48 PM)
So when I was growing up and the family was raising cattle as well as selling hay, and I had horses, the fact that I got up every morning to feed livestock, muck stables before going to school, then coming home and taking care of my horses, and putting hay out for the cattle, I was actually working? My mom and dad came from farm families, they did the same stuff when they were kids, and it was called chores. May I say that the US and its child welfare system has gone off the deep end and have totally fucked up kids of the present generation and all future generations. Chores equal allowance, I earned extra money from selling calves I raised for 4h and FFA as well as selling colts. Lord you can aim a doomsday asteroid at the US, we have FUBARed our children.

MsMJAY -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 5:59:17 AM)
There are people who abuse their children for labor. (I am not saying that this is the case in your example.) My Ex- grew up on a farm. He and his brothers and sisters were used as farmhands. They were worked from sun up -til sun down and were forced to miss a great deal of school because they were kept home to help tend the farm. They were not given allowance, they did not earn extra money and half of them did not even finish school. Most of them are very resentful to this day about how they were used by their father. My Ex- often said he felt like they didn't actually get a childhood. Someone should have intervened on their behalf. I don't know the specifics of this case but I do know that there has to be a balance between giving children appropriate chores and using them for free labor.

MasterJohnSteed -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 6:13:27 AM)
Ok, I won't accept child abuse in any form However this goes to show how this country has changed. Giving children chores, expecting them to help out, learn responsibility, learning the value of hard work is now child abuse! My Grandmother lived to be 102, They gave her up for dead with a heart attack when she was 91! She was built out of stone, she worked like a dog growing up. She was raised in a small home today that would have been considered a shack by today's standards. She picked cotton, fed chickens, cooked for a family of 7 and three hired hands. She never had electricity or indoor plumbing until she moved out to go to nurses training in 1931! My Grandmother helped where she could at the family cotton gin and the family saw mill! She had nothing, came from a family that had nothing, walked to school and when she worked, worked to her hands bled. My God, By today's standards my grandmother would have been Abused, Mistreated mentally and physically. Along with her brothers and sisters they would have all been carted off to be cared for by the state. I thank God in heaven above that I was raised by a woman that was so abused, and abused her children and grandchildren by today's standards!

DomKen -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 6:43:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 So when I was growing up and the family was raising cattle as well as selling hay, and I had horses, the fact that I got up every morning to feed livestock, muck stables before going to school, then coming home and taking care of my horses, and putting hay out for the cattle, I was actually working? My mom and dad came from farm families, they did the same stuff when they were kids, and it was called chores. May I say that the US and its child welfare system has gone off the deep end and have totally fucked up kids of the present generation and all future generations. Chores equal allowance, I earned extra money from selling calves I raised for 4h and FFA as well as selling colts. Lord you can aim a doomsday asteroid at the US, we have FUBARed our children. Last I checked farm work on a family owned farm, as long as the kid went to school as expected, was exempt from child labor laws.

needlesandpins -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 6:48:26 AM)
my son has had chores since he was capable of clearing up after himself. you have your toys out, you clear them up. when older you washed the pots, helped walk the dogs, helped clear up after the dogs, helped with the horses. It all teaches kids about responsibility, and gives them a work ethic. it teaches them that you don't get everything handed to you on a plate. you don't want to do your chores? cool, don't ask for anything treat wise because the answer will be no. you didn't earn it yet. needles

SweetAnise -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 6:53:13 AM)
It really depends on what the children are doing relating to the horse business. Washing is one thing. Shoveling horseshit, lifting barrels of hay- might be another. Child Labor laws are in place because some adults think because kids are smaller and usually don't have a voice...they can tell kids to work long hours and do the work as an adult to make it easier for them. Which ultimately can become abuse.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 7:11:04 AM)
It becomes child abuse when children are expected to function like adults. There are families that don't treat their children well. From an early age I was expected to come straight home from school, take care of household chores, cook dinner, all while watching my younger sisters. My father worked during the day, my mother during the evening, so I had to get home and take over so she could go to work. Weekends were not much better, my mother put us to work and if she couldn't find anything to do inside we were sent outside to do yardwork or whatever she could come up with. I also helped my father with his projects, by 10 I was helping him fix cars, remodel the house. By 12 I was taking roofing shingles up a ladder for the 3 car garage he built. I ironed by father's work shirts, 12 a week, long sleeved with french cuffs. I also worked for his business. The emotional and physical abuse that went with this regime was horrendous. For instance, we were punished for tasks that we're perfectly completed. That you were 8 years old and had never done it before wasn't considered an excuse. Yes, I learned a lot. I knew how to cook, clean, do laundry, go grocery shopping, deal with the yard, paint a house, etc. But I literally had no childhood. My own children were expected to do chores around the house, to do their own laundry, and in general to help out, though I made sure they were given age appropriate tasks. I went out of my way to make sure helping out was a fun game. It's been my experience kids like to help if you treat them right. Having a child help with the family business in this day and age opens up a huge can of worms. Really I wouldn't recommend it. Of course they should be given age appropriate tasks around the house that is tied into an allowance. If special tasks come up, like cleaning the car, they should be taught (yes, that's right taught) how to negotiate what the task involves and how much they should get paid.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 8:08:02 AM)
It became child abuse about 40 years ago when the government went into the business of destroying the American family.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 9:17:47 AM)
fr I would be very reluctant to make any broad assumptions like 'giving chores is now considered abuse' based on half a story. Some social workers make really bad calls. Some families are abusive. There's a whole wide gulf in there between the two where there's no clear answer. You're only hearing her side. We don't know where on the spectrum this lies. In my experience (granted, UK) it's much more common that kids in actual need slip through the cracks than decent parents get persecuted. Not to mention the fact that social services follow up on all sorts of claims which turn out to be untrue or exaggerated. It may well be that whoever contacted child protection told a far more dramatic story which turned out to be unfounded. They wouldn't know unless they visited to check.

DesFIP -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 9:23:56 AM)
The friends who own the barn where my kid rode for years have two children. The one who rode did chores around the barn. The one who didn't ride got to mow the lawn and do house chores instead. They both did chores, just appropriate to each child.

sloguy02246 -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 10:06:41 AM)
FR I remember a similar thread a while back where the "Here Comes Honey-Boo-Boo" reality show (using the term "reality" somewhat loosely here) was cited because when Honey (Alana) is being prepped for a pageant or show, they give her "go-go juice," (a mixture of Red Bull and Mountain Dew) to "fire her up" for the competition. A poster said that giving any child that drink for any purpose was a form of child abuse, a view that I concurred with. There is nothing wrong with introducing a child to the fact that everyday life does require some drudge work. Agreed that some families who use their children in a family business may step over the line, but on the whole, making your children aware of the basic tasks required in everyone's daily life is not abuse, but a necessary part of good parenting.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 12:26:41 PM)
There is a family in Arkansas, where the mother pops out another kids every year. That really isn't the issue, since they appear to have enough money to afford it. The issue as I see is, is that every new baby is "assigned" to an older child to "care" for. Basically, as I see it, the mother completely abrogates her child rearing responsibilities to her to her other children so she can concentrate on getting pregnant again. The older kids are involuntary parents. Their childhood is taken from them by their parents, who apparently feel no shame with this arrangement. Have as many kids as you want, but the parent should be responsible for raising them.

MercTech -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 2:38:29 PM)
I thought, might as well check a source... link to federal law on minors employed in farm work: http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/childlabor102.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,0,792 State laws will be more variable.

MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 3:04:46 PM)
As MercTech mentioned there are special laws when it comes to farms. I never felt abused because I got paid actual working wages. When we had the dairy farm I was relugated to feeding the cows and shovelling shit. Do you want to know why I had that job while my older brother and my father just had to milk the cows? It's becuase sometimes cows get a little testy when they are milked. A 1200 lb cow can kick you so hard your grandchildren can feel it. That's why my little brother and I got the unglamorous jobs: so we wouldn't be killed.

Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 7:40:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt It becomes child abuse when children are expected to function like adults. There are families that don't treat their children well. From an early age I was expected to come straight home from school, take care of household chores, cook dinner, all while watching my younger sisters. My father worked during the day, my mother during the evening, so I had to get home and take over so she could go to work. Weekends were not much better, my mother put us to work and if she couldn't find anything to do inside we were sent outside to do yardwork or whatever she could come up with. I also helped my father with his projects, by 10 I was helping him fix cars, remodel the house. By 12 I was taking roofing shingles up a ladder for the 3 car garage he built. I ironed by father's work shirts, 12 a week, long sleeved with french cuffs. I also worked for his business. The emotional and physical abuse that went with this regime was horrendous. For instance, we were punished for tasks that we're perfectly completed. That you were 8 years old and had never done it before wasn't considered an excuse. Yes, I learned a lot. I knew how to cook, clean, do laundry, go grocery shopping, deal with the yard, paint a house, etc. But I literally had no childhood. My own children were expected to do chores around the house, to do their own laundry, and in general to help out, though I made sure they were given age appropriate tasks. I went out of my way to make sure helping out was a fun game. It's been my experience kids like to help if you treat them right. Having a child help with the family business in this day and age opens up a huge can of worms. Really I wouldn't recommend it. Of course they should be given age appropriate tasks around the house that is tied into an allowance. If special tasks come up, like cleaning the car, they should be taught (yes, that's right taught) how to negotiate what the task involves and how much they should get paid. Yuck. I am sorry you grew up like that. Being a homeschooling parent I come across some of the crazier sects of homeschoolers now and then. One was trying to tell me that as long as I had children in the house there was no reason why I had to do any housework at all. I back away from them just as fast as I did the ones who told me I should be whipping my 4 month old infant for wiggling during a diaper change or when she cried for me while telling her with a smile on my face, now we are going to be cheerful.

DomKen -> RE: Uh when did it become child abuse... (1/5/2014 9:11:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 There is a family in Arkansas, where the mother pops out another kids every year. That really isn't the issue, since they appear to have enough money to afford it. The issue as I see is, is that every new baby is "assigned" to an older child to "care" for. Basically, as I see it, the mother completely abrogates her child rearing responsibilities to her to her other children so she can concentrate on getting pregnant again. The older kids are involuntary parents. Their childhood is taken from them by their parents, who apparently feel no shame with this arrangement. Have as many kids as you want, but the parent should be responsible for raising them. I think you're talking about the Duggar family. They were not wealthy enough to support their horde of kids until they got the reality show. And the child abuse in that family far exceeds making the older kids care for the younger ones.

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.078125