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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/11/2014 9:55:01 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
It seems it's ok to be racist if you make jokes about it.
There are probably more examples like this. Feel free to add your opinion.
Is Achmed the dead terrorist a racist act?


I think it really depends on the context and how far it actually goes. Some people believe that any kind of ethnic humor is an absolute no-no, as it is believed that even mild, innocuous jokes (some of which might even be rather funny) could lead to more inflammatory rhetoric. It's hard to say, though. The character of Archie Bunker in All in the Family was a satirical caricature of a racist, yet it did include a peppering of racial and ethnic humor and epithets. But it was done in the context of bringing greater awareness to very real issues affecting America.

I've never heard of this French comedian before. Is he just doing this as a gimmick, or is he just looking for attention? Is he popular? Do a lot of people attend his shows? There have been plenty of irreverent, tasteless, and outright offensive comedians out there - perhaps for the sake of shock value to compensate for jokes which aren't very funny. Although, some can make it work, but only as long as they're funny. A comedian who is not funny...well, that just doesn't work.

Dieudonne is a french muslim comedian convicted 6 times for racial slurs against jews.
But let's take another step. It's perfectly ok for an african american to say the 'N' word because it's his own race. That's all fine and dandy but I rarely hear white people calling eachother cracker. Why is that?
Why is rapmusic overflowing with calling their women bitches and ho's?
This should ring a bell in the bdsm community where slavery and cursing is made into an artform.
This BDSM community is considered very liberal up to the point of demeaning people. While at home it's considered allright and a good thing. I sense a contradiction in terms. A travesty of reality and many many denials.

Chris Rock - about Rap music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWoiZwU93fM



Let's just be clear..."rapmusic" is neither a class nor a race. It should also not ring a bell in the "BDSM community" because "rapmusic" and the "BDSM community" are not synonymous.

I sense several travesty's.

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/13/2014 2:25:03 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		So I cannot compare different groups who both use denegrating terms?
That's the problem with people who can't see the bigger picture, people who cant compare apples and pears.

It's an easy cop-out to not confront oneself with hard subjects and just avoid the ugly truth.

If we can say [Mod Edit: Removed ethnic slur], [Mod Edit: Removed ethnic slur], [Mod Edit: Removed ethnic slur] and [Mod Edit: Removed ethnic slur] in here but not the N word. By it's own definition on this forum all words for whities or none racist, right?
But hey do not tread on the truth if you like.
Where does the buck stop what is racism and what not.
Call a girl a bitch and she'll reply with yeAH! Babe In Total Control of Herself. Call her a cunt and we have an itty bitty problem. Is there such a word for a man with the same impact. I think not.

Try me...

< Message edited by VideoAdminGamma -- 1/13/2014 4:38:31 PM >

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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/13/2014 4:41:19 PM   
VideoAdminGamma


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Status: offline 		I have redacted several instances of ethnic slurs. The policy is that they are not allowed at all. You can use something like "The C word used for poor white southerners" or some such, but not the actual word.

If you have any questions you may contact me or Chi.

Thanks,
Gamma

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/13/2014 5:06:03 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Good to be consistent. Boring but good as it should be.
Still the fact stands ethnic slurs relating to white people never have the same impact, as those that belong to other races. Cause I think white people just dont give a shit about racenamecalling.
If it's WT, C, RN or whatever one might come up with.
Sticks and stones, stick and stones...

So why is it the others are all so testy?

Oh yeah I remember it's the great white hunter theme.
We're soooo bad.


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/13/2014 6:44:13 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Are comedians allowed to be racist?

It seems it's ok to be racist if you make jokes about it.
There are probably more examples like this. Feel free to add your opinion.
Is Achmed the dead terrorist a racist act?



I've been seeing this thread title and, while I generally steer clear of commenting on most doings in countries I don't live in, tonight is not quite normal.

Who, exactly, is supposed to decide what comedians are "allowed" to be? The job of a comedian is to make people laugh. If they play with racial stereotypes to do that, and it works, I say go for it.

Achmed, who I think is as funny as anything else Dunham does, certainly has racial stereotypes that are part of the character, but he's got nothing in common with Achmed the Kwiki-mart clerk, or Achmed the car salesman, or Achmed the county building inspector.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 12:23:28 AM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

On the roof of a very tall building are four men; one is asian, one is mexican, one is black, and the last one is white. The asian walks to the ledge and says, "This is for all my people" and jumps off the roof. Next, the mexican walks to the ledge and also says, "This is for all my people" and then he jumps off the roof. Next is the black guy's turn. The black guy walks to the ledge and says, "This is for all my people" and then throws the white guy off the roof.



Comedians usually are some of the most fucked up people you can find. That might be what makes he good at the job. And a lot of time their brand of humor is darker than most people? I'll give you a quote from arie lange's book.

W. C. Fields said it best when he was asked what makes a comedian laugh. His answer was one of the funniest and most truthful bits of brilliance ever spoken. “If you dress up a man as an old woman and throw him down a flight of stairs, that will make normal people laugh,” he said. “If you want to make a comedian laugh, you’ll need to throw an old woman down the stairs.”

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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 1:08:07 AM   
ExquisiteStings


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline 		I totally agree with what The Heretic says about making people laugh, anyway they can. If they make jokes about/or parody different races & cultures, who is standing there to censor them? I think that everyone is too damn sensitive about this stuff these days and  should stop getting all militant about it. Comedians don't bother with stuff about skin color or physical characteristics, but they DO poke fun at the cultural habits that are different from "mainstream". And by laughing about it, it actually brings understanding about the differences out there & makes people a lot more tolerant, IMO.
And Mr. Bukani (or is that Bukake? jk jk  - don't go getting all offended) I think the male equivalent of 'cunt' may be 'prick', altho' it does not deliver the same impact as 'cunt' , for some reason, sounds way cruder.

Now I'm gonna ask a question that may cause some OyVey tempers to flare, but..so be it, cause u can't please alla people alla time.  Why is the Civil War constantly re-enacted, but WW2 isn't? It may sound sick & twisted, but I can find a lot of things to make fun of where the mannerisms of the Nazis & Hitler are concerned.
If I was doing a stand-up comedy show, I WOULD warn people not to expect any leniency as far as my poking fun at different cultures. I would include my own amongst them and I would tell anyone in the audience that if they can't handle their own perception of the sensitivity of the material I utilize, then look around for the exits, and by all means, they should LET THE DOOR HIT THEM IN THE ASS.  HARD!!

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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 3:38:33 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Well lets play simple minds.
A jew makin fun of jews is pretty ok.
A jew makin fun of muslims is on the edge.
A muslim praising the holocaust is over the edge and that's what the comedian in the OP did. Mr. Dieudonne from France.
A black comedian using the N word is common.
A white comedian using the N word is on the edge.
Isn't that obvious?
You can draw the line yourself with examples.

Now if comedians are allowed to be racist to other cultures.
What stops a priest, an imam or a rabbi from telling racist jokes in his holy place?
Or a politician for that matter.
It's all a fine line and some people love to walk that red line.
They can carry a hidden agenda with a smile...

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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 6:40:52 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Well lets play simple minds.



You have been from the thread title forward...

Again, MrBukani, who is it that decides what comedians are "allowed" to be? Let's take it up a notch and ask, is this a role that is compatible with a free society?

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 8:09:21 PM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteStings
Why is the Civil War constantly re-enacted, but WW2 isn't? It may sound sick & twisted, but I can find a lot of things to make fun of where the mannerisms of the Nazis & Hitler are concerned.


That's a good question, actually. For Americans, the Civil War is probably the most important event in our history, so it stands to reason that many Civil War buffs and lay historians would want to commemorate and re-enact the battles. Plus, re-enacting Civil War battles might be cheaper and more feasible than re-enacting WW2 battles. The re-enactors have to pay for their own uniforms, equipment, etc. They try to be as authentic and in character as possible, although I heard of one instance where a re-enactor answered his cellphone during Pickett's Charge. That didn't go over too well with the other guys.

Trying to re-enact the Normandy landings or the Battle of the Bulge might be a bit too problematic and unwieldy, not to mention quite expensive. I can only just imagine what kind of chaos would result if a bunch of Germans and Russians got together to re-enact the Battle of Stalingrad.

On the other hand, wargamers can find a much wider selection of war games relating to World War II than to the Civil War, by far. Same for movies. There are many more World War II movies than Civil War movies.

As for making fun of the Nazis, one of my favorite TV shows as a kid was Hogan's Heroes, which made fun of the Germans and Nazis all the time. Some people criticized it because it made light of the events in question. But the whole show was so ridiculously absurd.

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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 9:42:04 PM   
MsMJAY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteStings
Why is the Civil War constantly re-enacted, but WW2 isn't? It may sound sick & twisted, but I can find a lot of things to make fun of where the mannerisms of the Nazis & Hitler are concerned.


That's a good question, actually.



Actually there are WW2 re-enactments and they take place all over the world. They are just not as well publicized as the Civil War re-enactments. I have also heard of people re-enacting the French Resistance. That sounds like it could be fun.

Rockford Illinois
Long list of reenactment groups

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 9:52:35 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
It seems it's ok to be racist if you make jokes about it.
There are probably more examples like this. Feel free to add your opinion.
Is Achmed the dead terrorist a racist act?


I think it really depends on the context and how far it actually goes. Some people believe that any kind of ethnic humor is an absolute no-no, as it is believed that even mild, innocuous jokes (some of which might even be rather funny) could lead to more inflammatory rhetoric. It's hard to say, though. The character of Archie Bunker in All in the Family was a satirical caricature of a racist, yet it did include a peppering of racial and ethnic humor and epithets. But it was done in the context of bringing greater awareness to very real issues affecting America.

I've never heard of this French comedian before. Is he just doing this as a gimmick, or is he just looking for attention? Is he popular? Do a lot of people attend his shows? There have been plenty of irreverent, tasteless, and outright offensive comedians out there - perhaps for the sake of shock value to compensate for jokes which aren't very funny. Although, some can make it work, but only as long as they're funny. A comedian who is not funny...well, that just doesn't work.

Dieudonne is a french muslim comedian convicted 6 times for racial slurs against jews.
But let's take another step. It's perfectly ok for an african american to say the 'N' word because it's his own race. That's all fine and dandy but I rarely hear white people calling eachother cracker. Why is that?
Why is rapmusic overflowing with calling their women bitches and ho's?
This should ring a bell in the bdsm community where slavery and cursing is made into an artform.
This BDSM community is considered very liberal up to the point of demeaning people. While at home it's considered allright and a good thing. I sense a contradiction in terms. A travesty of reality and many many denials.

Chris Rock - about Rap music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWoiZwU93fM


Listen to country music; they reference [Mod Edit: Removed ethnic slur] and [Mod Edit: Removed ethnic slur] all the time. Its not that much different. That is racist terminology.

I don't listen to rap music for the very reasons you mentioned above. (but I DO listen to country music.) And lets remember that the vast majority of rap music is under corporate control of white men. Rap music mainly exists by and through 6 record companies all white owned. They are the ones who control what does and does not get played. Not the rappers.

The vast majority of rap music (66%) is purchased by young whites. So it is really not African Americans who are supporting that culture and that language. Its white America. I personally believe that artistic license should be allowed for people in the arts. (unfortunately that includes rappers.)

History has shown that if artists cross the line into offensive behavior the social backlash will do more damage than the law ever could.
I recall a few years ago comedian Michael Richards dealt with some hecklers in his audience by calling them the N- word repeatedly and making references to lynching them. His audience walked out on him and he pretty much retired from stand up after that.

I don't listen to Chris Rock because of his racial words. While Chris Rock does seem to be able to liberally use the N-word he has been called out on it by many blacks. He also took some negative fallout over a video he did also called [Mod Edit: Removed ethnic slur] It was unreleased for several years due to it being deemed racially offensive to whites.
And his famous "Niggas vs Blacks" routine that people reference so often? Chris Rock pulled it from his act and has refused to ever do that routine again.


The uneven treatment of different posters for the same offense is irritating.

(in reply to MsMJAY)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 9:54:17 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

On the roof of a very tall building are four men; one is asian, one is mexican, one is black, and the last one is white. The asian walks to the ledge and says, "This is for all my people" and jumps off the roof. Next, the mexican walks to the ledge and also says, "This is for all my people" and then he jumps off the roof. Next is the black guy's turn. The black guy walks to the ledge and says, "This is for all my people" and then throws the white guy off the roof.



Comedians usually are some of the most fucked up people you can find. That might be what makes he good at the job. And a lot of time their brand of humor is darker than most people? I'll give you a quote from arie lange's book.

W. C. Fields said it best when he was asked what makes a comedian laugh. His answer was one of the funniest and most truthful bits of brilliance ever spoken. “If you dress up a man as an old woman and throw him down a flight of stairs, that will make normal people laugh,” he said. “If you want to make a comedian laugh, you’ll need to throw an old woman down the stairs.”


And any of y'all that find that funny are just evil fucks.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 10:01:14 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
And any of y'all that find that funny are just evil fucks.



I guess I'm an evil fuck then.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/14/2014 10:59:15 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Two men are sitting in a bar, on top of the Sears building in Chicago.

They're both more than a little drunk. One turns to the other and says: "You know how they call us 'The Windy City'? When they built that building across from this one, they created a wind tunnel effect."

"If you jump out of this window, you'll fall about 50 floors and then, the tunnel effect will blow you right back into the window."

The second drunk tells him he reckons he's full of shit so the first guy gets up, jumps out the window and sure-enough; he gets blown back in.

The second guy shouts: "That's fuckin' cool!". He jumps out the window and hits the pavement a few seconds later with a "splat".

The bartender shakes his head at the remaining guy and says: "Superman, you are one mean fuckin' drunk!"



ETA: I did this because as a (partially) white man, Mr. Bukani's joke is offensive. So, thank you, whoever reposted it (there's a myriad of reasons I have the guy on block)





< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 1/14/2014 11:00:33 PM >

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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/15/2014 1:24:12 AM   
MrBukani


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Joined: 4/18/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Well lets play simple minds.



You have been from the thread title forward...

Again, MrBukani, who is it that decides what comedians are "allowed" to be? Let's take it up a notch and ask, is this a role that is compatible with a free society?

Oh the irony

Again you play the free speech card. So if comedians are allowed to make racist comments and fuel racism what Dieudonne is doing, why aren't politicians and the public allowed to do the same?
Answer that one please compatible with your utopian free society.

I am not against free speech nor am I saying we should witchhunt comedians. I am obviously trying to show a fine line that can be crossed and most answer cross saying comedians can say fuckin anything.

Well I am stating I am a comedian and will say Hitler was great! We would never have had a bankingcrisis if he was in charge.
Now you might think it's not funny but you are not the judge of what I find funny.
And this one was very mild. Not really racist but add a couple words an it is for sure.





< Message edited by MrBukani -- 1/15/2014 1:31:04 AM >

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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/15/2014 4:14:04 AM   
MsMJAY


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I am not sure whether or not you are from the United States or know how things work here, but comedians, politicians, drunks on the streets and anyone else are all "allowed" to make racist comments. No one is going to arrest them for it. What most of us are advocating here is that people can say whatever the hell they want to as long as it does not harm or threaten to harm others.

In our society free speech is not a "card." It is just part of life here. We deal with jackasses who make inappropriate comments because we respect their right to do so. When enough of us think a particular jackass has crossed the line, there are generally "social repercussions." People will stop paying money to see an offensive comedian or they will vote against a politician or simply ignore a drunk (or a jackass). The social repercussions tend work more often than not.

So go ahead. Say Hitler was great if that pleases you. Call blacks the N word and proceed to denigrate every class in society that you feel the urge to. Let it all out. Frankly, no one really gives a fuck. Whatever the CM mods do is your problem alone to deal with. The posters who wish to entertain you are more than welcome to do so. Others will simply use the block feature (which I suspect a great many people already are). Still others view all racist comments as the foolish ramblings of a drunken jackass, not even worthy of a response.

This (a person's big mouth and all the trouble it creates for them) is what we call freedom of speech.

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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/15/2014 4:55:59 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
So if comedians are allowed to make racist comments and fuel racism what Dieudonne is doing, why aren't politicians and the public allowed to do the same?
Answer that one please compatible with your utopian free society.


Actually, the same rights apply to everyone. Whatever a comedian is allowed to say would be allowed for politicians and the public, but by the same token, everyone has to take responsibility and the consequences for what they say and do, whether it's loss of business, loss of job, being kicked out of school, or whatever.

quote:


I am not against free speech nor am I saying we should witchhunt comedians. I am obviously trying to show a fine line that can be crossed and most answer cross saying comedians can say fuckin anything.


And anyone can be a comedian. But it's a tough business to break into, from what I understand. Just like with musicians and actors who seek to make it big in show business, the competition is fierce.


(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/15/2014 6:45:51 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY


I am not sure whether or not you are from the United States or know how things work here, but comedians, politicians, drunks on the streets and anyone else are all "allowed" to make racist comments. No one is going to arrest them for it. What most of us are advocating here is that people can say whatever the hell they want to as long as it does not harm or threaten to harm others.

In our society free speech is not a "card." It is just part of life here. We deal with jackasses who make inappropriate comments because we respect their right to do so. When enough of us think a particular jackass has crossed the line, there are generally "social repercussions." People will stop paying money to see an offensive comedian or they will vote against a politician or simply ignore a drunk (or a jackass). The social repercussions tend work more often than not.

So go ahead. Say Hitler was great if that pleases you. Call blacks the N word and proceed to denigrate every class in society that you feel the urge to. Let it all out. Frankly, no one really gives a fuck. Whatever the CM mods do is your problem alone to deal with. The posters who wish to entertain you are more than welcome to do so. Others will simply use the block feature (which I suspect a great many people already are). Still others view all racist comments as the foolish ramblings of a drunken jackass, not even worthy of a response.

This (a person's big mouth and all the trouble it creates for them) is what we call freedom of speech.



I have to get out the door for work shortly, so I'll agree with MsMJay for the moment, and perhaps expand a bit when time permits.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Are comedians allowed to be racist? - 1/15/2014 6:54:56 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
I am not sure whether or not you are from the United States


Mr B is Dutch, Ms MJAY. That's why, despite his other faults, he always dresses in very cheerful colours and has such an admirable sense of rhythm.

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